What's your most complicated custom group?

[Manxome]

What's the most complicated set of rules you use for defining a custom group?

Here's mine:

Meals + Dance + Class
Membership: In All: Meals+Dance, Wants Classes

This is used (naturally) to assign students to a schedule with classes, recreation, and extra meals. (By default my students only eat 1 meal per day.)

Sounds simple? That's because most of the logic is in nested subgroups. To fully understand this group, you need to look at...

Meals + Dance
Membership: In Any: Dancer
Membership: In Any: Extra Meals, Solo Diner

Dancer
Active Trial: Has Any: Bliss Seeker, Blissful Learning, Dancing Machine, Dancing Queen, Dancing With Friends, Great Day (this list is actually longer because it includes bronze/silver/etc variations)
Active Trial: Has None: Anticipatory Learner

Extra Meals
Active Trial: Has Any: Food Focuser, Full Learning (any level)

Solo Diner
Active Trial: Has Any: Solo Diner (any level)

Wants Classes
Membership: In Any: All Students
Membership: In None: Skips Classes

Skips Classes
Membership: In Any: All Students
Membership: In Any: Fully Trained Students, Waiting for Trials, Manual Block Classes
Membership: In None: Class Trials, Manual Force Classes

("Manual Block Classes" and "Manual Forces Classes" don't have any rules except that I can manually add mages to them to override the regular rules about whether the mage would go to class.)

Fully Trained Students
Skill Cap Reached: All: (all elements)
Level Cap Reached: In
Membership: In Any: All Students

Waiting for Trials
Skill Cap Reached: All: (all elements)
Active Trial: Has Any: (a long list of silver or higher trials that I feel are easy to get)
The purpose of this group is that the student doesn't need to bother with classes if their skills are maxed and their level is going to be maxed by trials anyway.

Class Trials:
Active Trial: Has Any: Anticipatory Learning, Blissful Learner, Eager To Learn, Full Learning, Group Learner, Rested Learning (bronze and silver versions of all)




In summary:

Students go to class if their skills need training, or if they have a trial that requires going to class and that I consider feasible to complete (I didn't include e.g. Solo Learning because it's too much trouble). Students also might go to class if they just need more XP to fully level, but only if they don't have a trial that I think will give them that XP anyway.

Then there's also manual overrides in both directions that I can use to exempt students from the algorithmic rules without having to change anything else.

Students get into the Dancer group if they have certain trials that requires dancing or tranquility or high conviction, but not if they have Anticipatory Learner because that requires the Craving Recreation status.

Students get extra meals if they have a trial that requires them to be full. Also students with the Solo Diner trial go on the same schedule because there's a small chance that eating at an unusual time will complete Solo Diner (though this only occasionally works, for multiple reasons).

And I have a custom schedule for students who go to class AND dance AND eat extra meals, so I need a group that combines all of those so that I can bind the schedule to it.

In total that's 18 different tests spread across 10 different groups (or 20 and 12 if you count my manual overrides) in order to calculate which students get that specific schedule.

[saintspirit]

Let me tell you, folks, when it comes to designing custom rules—nobody does it better than I do, believe me. I’ve created some of the most fantastic, effective rules, rules that work, rules that get things done like you wouldn't believe. The best minds in the world—they come to me. Why? Because they know, I’m the best at creating these custom rules. No one else can do it like I can.

I’ve designed rules that have transformed businesses, created success stories, and brought people to the top. You want rules that work? You come to me. You’ll see results like you’ve never seen before. Custom rules that fit exactly what you need—tailored perfectly, unlike anything anyone else can offer.

Nobody has designed rules that bring results like I have. Tremendous results. Unbelievable. The best.

[Draconis]

I actually avoid making rules too nested and complicated.

Mages cannot be members of two groups at the same time, so I set up my groups so they join them when needed and leave them when not needed any longer.

Imagine, you set up a super complex group structure, put the game aside a few weeks, then return to your school and look at your group - best case is you remember exactly what you did and why and scan through your locigal tree and got the bottle after a few moments.
Worst case is... you look at your groups, think "what the >>MEEEP<< did I do there!?" and then either mess something up while you try to improve things or wonder why certain things actually happen.

It's a bit like coding, I like to keep it simple.

Edit: But I like the idea to make a group for fully trained students to get them out of classes. Maybe I'll steal that one and use it to create a worker group.

[Manxome]

Originally posted by Draconis:

Mages cannot be members of two groups at the same time

Not true; I have many mages who are in many different groups at once right now. In fact, if this were true, the group I described in my OP wouldn't remotely work, since the higher-level groups rely on mages already being in lower-level groups in order to enter the higher-level ones.

Mages can only be assigned to one schedule, one set of priorities, and one set of food permissions at a time, but that just means that if they match the conditions for more than one of those, they use the first one they match (in top-to-bottom order).

Originally posted by Draconis:

It's a bit like coding, I like to keep it simple.

I would actually say it literally IS coding, not merely "like" coding. And yes, complexity is a cost that you should be careful about paying. But I'm a professional programmer; I regularly work with code much more complex than this.

The way to manage complexity is to keep it organized and use good comments & naming conventions to make it easier for your future self to understand. If I had to decipher the groups from my OP based only on the rules, it would take a lot of work. But because the groups all have names that describe what they're for, I can quickly and easily figure out approximately what they do, and I only need to analyze the actual rules if I want to check edge cases.

[n3mes1s]

The only group i make in the entire game is to separate full trained students from the ones that ar not LOL. And thats about it. Why people need to make so many groups escapes me... maybe they are not very good at this game im afraid.

[saintspirit]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

The only group i make in the entire game is to separate full trained students from the ones that ar not LOL. And thats about it. Why people need to make so many groups escapes me... maybe they are not very good at this game im afraid.

How do you play the game? Do you set schedules, tasks and meals for each of hundreds of students manually and multiple times to achieve all the trials? If that makes you happy, good for you. I don't like that. I like to automate those repetitive tasks as much as possible and enjoy watching the students act as i see fit without any further intervention.

[n3mes1s]

Dude, you only need a schedulle for all initiates/students and another for staff. Thats it. Maybe sometimes when a student needs to complete a trial you have to assign em a personal schedulle (there is no other way specially with trials that require the student to be rested/tranquil/full at the same time) but thats the only case.

Meals? in mid-late game you will be cooking EVERYTHING. So each mage / student will automatically eat whats better for em. Plain and simple. Put a chest with priority 5 right besides the house commons (dont put it right inside, so you can complete food trials when they need to be isolated eating or whatever) for students, and another one besides dining rooms for staff. Since everybody is going to eat everything, just be sure you cook a specific number of food and split it into those two chests. Change the access rules to each chest for staff/students so your staff goes automatically for the chest located in the dining room and students go directly to the chest located in house commons.

Please dont tell me you are giving EACH mage a specific meal... thats insane and not necessary, specially in mid-late game. Thats just overcomplicating things. If you have to manually create a group or edit it everyting you have to complete a trial or other things... god thats insane.

If you have problems with chests and priorities, what i do is i assign priority 1 to regular chests (where everything thats excess go to) and that way i have priorites 2-5 to assign to other chests when i see fit.

With right priorities you can do everything no need for groups and whatnot.

[saintspirit]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

there is no other way specially with trials that require the student to be rested/tranquil/full at the same time

Thats what i am talking about. I create a group once and every student that will have that trial completes it automatically, while you have to micromanage them.

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

mid-late game you will be cooking EVERYTHING. So each mage / student will automatically eat whats better for em.

Sounds like you still have to handfeed them, for the 10 gutberry trial. I have a group for that. They complete that trial automatically and afterwards they take their favorite food again.

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

With right priorities you can do everything no need for groups and whatnot.

As shown above, the things you do manually, i have automated it - with groups.
Try it. Might take you a while, but it's fun.

[n3mes1s]

Originally posted by saintspirit:

Sounds like you still have to handfeed them, for the 10 gutberry trial. I have a group for that. They complete that trial automatically and afterwards they take their favorite food again.

Why would i create a group for that??? if a student needs to eat gutberry i just put that only meal in the list of alloweds meal. Period. I cook everything no matter if i need gutberry, gutberry soup, honeyed gruel, etc so i always have some of those food in case i need to complete any trial. Easy piece.

Doing it how you are describing you will fill a huge list of groups its going to take you more time to create all groups than actually doing manually lol.

And how in h3ck you do things like that with a group? how do you tell the game that student needs to complete x trial and he needs to eat only x?? is there a list of all trials when you create a group??? you cant do that with a group. Unless im mistaken.

[Manxome]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

And how in h3ck you do things like that with a group? how do you tell the game that student needs to complete x trial and he needs to eat only x?? is there a list of all trials when you create a group??? you cant do that with a group. Unless im mistaken.

As usual, you are mistaken. There is a group rule specifically for trials. Yes, it has a list of every trial in the game.

You were mistaken when you doubted me about unstable anemones dying if you disturb them during the day.

You were mistaken when you doubted Dunathi about needing to do a feast ritual to create an adult dragon.

And you are mistaken here, again, when you doubted saintspirit about the ability to make custom groups based on what trials a student has.

All of these were easily checkable if you had bothered to check. Additionally, none of them are the sorts of things that someone is likely to make up if they weren't true, so betting against them without checking was really quite unwise.

You have a pattern of acting as if you know everything about the game, despite repeated demonstrations of clear gaps in your knowledge. And then you constantly insult other people that you think are less expert than you. Honestly, it seems like the opportunity to insult people is your primary motive for posting here at all.

Using custom groups to automate things like gutberry trials takes more work the first time, but you only have to do it once and then it works automatically for all future students with that trial, so if you play long enough it's guaranteed to eventually take less time. This should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it for 10 seconds.

[n3mes1s]

It doesnt matter. Again, its not worthy to create specific group for each trial... do you even understand how many groups and combinations are you going to need? i dont think so. Yes, i was mistaken about that rule cuz it wasnt in the game until a three or four months ago and i never ever needed it in all my runs.

And anemones never die for me even if mages are harvesting right besides em. Maybe its because i have the anemone planters in the back? go figure.

Finally why you young gamers need to automate everything? whats the challenge in that? this game has become a point click "adventure" where the minimum efforts is the actual end-game. Ridiculous.

[gussmed]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

It doesnt matter. Again, its not worthy to create specific group for each trial...

There are trials you'll never complete if you don't create custom schedules for them. Solo Diner and Solo Dancer absolutely require that you either hand-manage them, which is tedious, or create a custom group so they eat and dance alone.

I *have* created a custom group for almost every possible trial. There are a handful that you'll achieve without effort (i.e. Eager to Learn), but most of them benefit from custom groups. So, yeah, I know precisely how many you need, and it's not a big deal.

Figuring out how to automate this stuff is fun. Doing everything by hand is not fun, and hardly a challenge, just tedious.

[Yalokin]

Originally posted by gussmed:

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

It doesnt matter. Again, its not worthy to create specific group for each trial...

There are trials you'll never complete if you don't create custom schedules for them. Solo Diner and Solo Dancer absolutely require that you either hand-manage them, which is tedious, or create a custom group so they eat and dance alone.

I *have* created a custom group for almost every possible trial. There are a handful that you'll achieve without effort (i.e. Eager to Learn), but most of them benefit from custom groups. So, yeah, I know precisely how many you need, and it's not a big deal.

Figuring out how to automate this stuff is fun. Doing everything by hand is not fun, and hardly a challenge, just tedious.

Do you by chance minding sharing your trials groups, please?

For the OP, I have only fully trained students group and worgen/not worgen - one is for beds assignment, other is for food assignment (useful for early game mainly)

[n3mes1s]

Originally posted by gussmed:

There are trials you'll never complete if you don't create custom schedules for them.

There is ONLY one trial that is pretty hard to complete without a schedulle and its the one that requires be fully/rested/tranquil at the same time. And even then you can complete it just doing things manually with that specific student...

Ive done half a hundred runs at this point, i never EVER used custom schedulles for anyone and never ever had a problem completing any trial. So maybe you are doing something wrong or you are just not skilled enough in this game.

[LonelyHades]

I actually need help with groups. If you all can import me your groups or do a guide, it would help a lot (I tried to do it now, but I am in the mid-late game with 22 mages and I feel everything is going to be worse if I try it myself).

[{TC}K-Wurx]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

It doesnt matter. Again, its not worthy to create specific group for each trial... do you even understand how many groups and combinations are you going to need? i dont think so. Yes, i was mistaken about that rule cuz it wasnt in the game until a three or four months ago and i never ever needed it in all my runs.

And anemones never die for me even if mages are harvesting right besides em. Maybe its because i have the anemone planters in the back? go figure.

Finally why you young gamers need to automate everything? whats the challenge in that? this game has become a point click "adventure" where the minimum efforts is the actual end-game. Ridiculous.

You're insufferable. People can play the game however they choose but it's a fact that automation makes the game more efficient and by extension, a better player. To create the same efficiency your way would require playing the majority of the game on pause. I'm guessing you choose to play this game on easy which is fine. In order to excel at the highest levels of the game, automation is damn near required or you're spending 90% of the game on pause setting up and some of us would think that not fun.

Stop with the 'holier than thou' mentality and for the love of God, stop doubling down when you're shown to be incorrect. You might learn something.