Beds. Do better beds have shorter sleep time?

[Defrost40kSMAH]

Yeah. Cant figure out. I wonder if there any reason for me to go and make humongous dormintory for litle guys so they can study even faster. I am minmax freak.

[JU1173]

They give a better conviction bonus. Keeps them happier.

[ulzgoroth]

Check the tooltip text? They say they recharge some things faster, but I'd have to check whether sleep is one of those things.

[Draconis]

Better beds are required for better bedrooms. Which will give you a higher conviction bonus.

[exhaustedhale]

The main thing with the higher quality items are higher Conviction scores or faster work tasks from room bonuses. Beds boost conviction scores, and the bedrooms boost them higher. For your min-maxxing, if you don't mind playing with breaks, then it might not matter too much, but a higher conviction gives you one less thing to worry about, so I recommend it personally.

[IxianMace]

Better beds cause mages to recover mana faster but do not cause mages to recover their sleep need faster.

[Gate Keeper]

I'm not 100% sure. But how this game works is thusly:

You start with a HUGE conviction bonus at the start of the game that lets you have your witches and wizzards sleep on the ground, eat crap, stay in horrible rooms, eat whatever they can in whatever condition, and they'll power through it.

However as that starting bonus slowly fades away, you will have more and more conviction problems, and you need to start worrying about their state.

This means that, while it's perfectly fine to have no recreation time alloted, 0, for the first one or two weeks, you better start alloting 4 hours to it sooner or later. I hear people say 3 is fine. I disagree. Go with 4, once they fill their bar, they will go work anyway.

Conviction is a bit the same. You want to overdo it, not under. And having better sleeping quarters, better dining rooms and better recreation rooms is a rather easy way of getting some much needed conviction.

[ulzgoroth]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Gate Keeper:

I'm not 100% sure. But how this game works is thusly:

You start with a HUGE conviction bonus at the start of the game that lets you have your witches and wizzards sleep on the ground, eat crap, stay in horrible rooms, eat whatever they can in whatever condition, and they'll power through it.

However as that starting bonus slowly fades away, you will have more and more conviction problems, and you need to start worrying about their state.

This means that, while it's perfectly fine to have no recreation time alloted, 0, for the first one or two weeks, you better start alloting 4 hours to it sooner or later. I hear people say 3 is fine. I disagree. Go with 4, once they fill their bar, they will go work anyway.

Conviction is a bit the same. You want to overdo it, not under. And having better sleeping quarters, better dining rooms and better recreation rooms is a rather easy way of getting some much needed conviction.

Being at full recreation isn't much use. You can get +10, but it's very short-lived. Unless you scatter lots of recreation breaks throughout the day, they'll mostly be at +0. Which is okay. You'd like to avoid hitting the -10, though.

[Blahramewe]

Diposting pertama kali oleh ulzgoroth:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Gate Keeper:

I'm not 100% sure. But how this game works is thusly:

You start with a HUGE conviction bonus at the start of the game that lets you have your witches and wizzards sleep on the ground, eat crap, stay in horrible rooms, eat whatever they can in whatever condition, and they'll power through it.

However as that starting bonus slowly fades away, you will have more and more conviction problems, and you need to start worrying about their state.

This means that, while it's perfectly fine to have no recreation time alloted, 0, for the first one or two weeks, you better start alloting 4 hours to it sooner or later. I hear people say 3 is fine. I disagree. Go with 4, once they fill their bar, they will go work anyway.

Conviction is a bit the same. You want to overdo it, not under. And having better sleeping quarters, better dining rooms and better recreation rooms is a rather easy way of getting some much needed conviction.

Being at full recreation isn't much use. You can get +10, but it's very short-lived. Unless you scatter lots of recreation breaks throughout the day, they'll mostly be at +0. Which is okay. You'd like to avoid hitting the -10, though.

This is why I wish the relics that cause needs to fill faster would instead make them drain slower.

[Gate Keeper]

Diposting pertama kali oleh ulzgoroth:

Being at full recreation isn't much use. You can get +10, but it's very short-lived. Unless you scatter lots of recreation breaks throughout the day, they'll mostly be at +0. Which is okay. You'd like to avoid hitting the -10, though.

I'd rather overcap their need than constantly not meeting it till it goes negative. It's at most one extra hour lost a day, and it gives me certainty that they don't get the malus.

I don't suggest dotting them all over, you might have tasks that are far away and that will mess everything up. But 2h in the morning and 2h before bed works pretty well. And if they are on a far flung task they were gonna spend a long time walking any way. And would have missed a 1h break completely anyhow. So they need to be in 2h blocks.

[ulzgoroth]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Gate Keeper:

Diposting pertama kali oleh ulzgoroth:

Being at full recreation isn't much use. You can get +10, but it's very short-lived. Unless you scatter lots of recreation breaks throughout the day, they'll mostly be at +0. Which is okay. You'd like to avoid hitting the -10, though.

I'd rather overcap their need than constantly not meeting it till it goes negative. It's at most one extra hour lost a day, and it gives me certainty that they don't get the malus.

I don't suggest dotting them all over, you might have tasks that are far away and that will mess everything up. But 2h in the morning and 2h before bed works pretty well. And if they are on a far flung task they were gonna spend a long time walking any way. And would have missed a 1h break completely anyhow. So they need to be in 2h blocks.

I also use 2 2h blocks, TBF. It's not like I'm actually desperate to claw back an hour.

Though due to the way conviction moves (quite gradually and I think independent of how far off target it is) and the way bonuses expire (generally you've lost a bunch by the evening) it's possible bouncing off the -10 before you recharge is actually fine? I dunno.

[Manxome]

To reiterate IxianMace's answer: The in-game tooltips for beds say that the better beds restore mana faster, but do not say that they fill the sleep need faster. I have not tested to verify this.

As several have noted, better beds are also required to create better bedrooms. The good beds do NOT intrinsically give higher conviction bonuses, but the rooms do.

.

Regarding the recreation side discussion:

Based on my tests, it looks like the rec bar fills 20%/hour while recreating. Assuming you sleep 6 hours/day (which pauses the bar), this means you need 3.1 hours/day of recreation (actual recreation, not counting travel time) to BREAK EVEN with the daily drain.

Therefore, if you schedule 3 hours or less, then your rec bar will eventually hit zero, because you fill it less than it drains every day.

Scheduling 4 hours/day means you will slowly fill up the bar and eventually stop getting the -10 penalty every day (unless your travel time is very long).

If you want to go from zero to full in a single day you need 5 hours (plus travel time).

If you use a special room that gives a conviction bonus for recreation, then that bonus only lasts 6 hours, so if you want to keep it in effect all the time then you need to split your recreation into several small blocks throughout the day (which will hurt you on travel time). Conviction doesn't move while you're asleep, so it doesn't matter if you have this bonus while asleep; therefore, 3 rec breaks/day is sufficient to maximize the effects of this bonus, provided the first one is right when you wake up and you space them 6 hours apart. Depending on the room, this may have a bigger effect on your conviction than the recreation need bar itself.

The system where conviction only moves towards the target at a rate of 2 points/hour means that it is complicated to evaluate whether a bonus or penalty that lasts for part of the day will actually help/hurt you, and how much. It depends on everything else you are doing to manage conviction, so there isn't a simple answer that applies to everyone all the time.

Recreation is a relatively high-upkeep way to increase your conviction, so in the long term it may be better to focus on other options and only use recreation if you need it.

[FAIR]

The end game is all about mood micromanagement and it's sad the game was built around this, I would have preferred stronger monsters or challenging events. This fake difficulty is lazy and obnoxious. Mages 10+ are constantly at the edge of a breakdown and once they "die", the death spiral begins until you lose them completely due to the revival window on 30' that won't give you enough time to rescue them and perform the revival ritual. 4 hours of recreation, good rooms, good beds, nothing seems to work, at least for me. I can't keep alive a 15+ mage for more than a week. Unfortunately is time to move on. I hope they add something to remove scars or lower the recreation decrease speed, fix the trauma chaining debuff, make recreation potions easier to craft or a combination of all.

[ulzgoroth]

Diposting pertama kali oleh Manxome:

Recreation is a relatively high-upkeep way to increase your conviction, so in the long term it may be better to focus on other options and only use recreation if you need it.

Though as you make reference to its associated bonuses separate from the need bar are quite high impact if you use advanced facilities. Students recreating in a house commons (which you want anyway) get 15 conviction I believe, while libations are good for something like +30 between the room and a drink that matches the weather.

[Manxome]

Diposting pertama kali oleh FAIR:

The end game is all about mood micromanagement and it's sad the game was built around this, I would have preferred stronger monsters or challenging events. This fake difficulty is lazy and obnoxious. Mages 10+ are constantly at the edge of a breakdown and once they "die", the death spiral begins until you lose them completely due to the revival window on 30' that won't give you enough time to rescue them and perform the revival ritual. 4 hours of recreation, good rooms, good beds, nothing seems to work, at least for me. I can't keep alive a 15+ mage for more than a week. Unfortunately is time to move on. I hope they add something to remove scars or lower the recreation decrease speed, fix the trauma chaining debuff, make recreation potions easier to craft or a combination of all.

Have you considered turning the difficulty down?

What you're describing sounds to me like it's more of an overall difficulty issue than a system design issue per se; that is, if you took an otherwise excellently-designed game and just cranked the general difficulty up, all players would eventually experience problems like what you're describing when the difficulty exceeded their ability to handle: Everything feeling too expensive (relative to what they can afford), investing more and more micro into trying to manage their problems, eventually failing to manage those problems regardless of that effort, smaller problems gradually cascading into bigger ones, etc.--that's what it inevitably looks like if you're not making any specific blunders but you're just not efficient enough to keep up.

So unless you are already playing on the lowest possible difficulty setting, I suggest you try turning the difficulty down.

[Manxome]

Diposting pertama kali oleh ulzgoroth:

Diposting pertama kali oleh Manxome:

Recreation is a relatively high-upkeep way to increase your conviction, so in the long term it may be better to focus on other options and only use recreation if you need it.

Though as you make reference to its associated bonuses separate from the need bar are quite high impact if you use advanced facilities. Students recreating in a house commons (which you want anyway) get 15 conviction I believe, while libations are good for something like +30 between the room and a drink that matches the weather.

I'm not saying that the effects are small. What I'm saying is that IF you can get that same amount of conviction in some other way--such as by upgrading your rooms, or cooking better food--then that other way will probably require fewer mage-hours per day to keep up, once you have it set up.

If you're already stacking all the other bonuses that you can currently stack, and you still want more conviction than you have, then by all means, try recreation. But if the maximum conviction you COULD stack is more than you actually need, and so you're choosing which bonus to skip, then you probably want to skip recreation.