The new level system is too damn grindy

[Captain Seasick]

...and it needs to be fixed ASAP. Before the latest patch it took you maybe 7-10 in-game days to fully train a student with a T2 wand, maybe 12 at most. Now it takes easily over a MONTH due to the INSANELY slow and grindy BS with this utterly crap level system.

C'mon devs! This ain't an early 2000s MMO you're making here. Make the leveling up less grindy! NOBODY likes grinding in games like this.

[Errapel]

I like the new level system, but I agree it could use some tweaking. I got my tier 3 students up to apprentice and they levelled their magics super fast (high level classrooms) then got stuck halfway between level 11 and level 12 just barely gaining any XP. I've taken to turning off warding for underschool dungeons so that they're constantly running out so I can send these students down there to fight high level enemies to level up. If I just left them, it would take years...

[n3mes1s]

Welcome to mind over magic, where every update makes the game worst, not the opposite around. Instead on focusing on end-game content they are just doing everything they can to extend the game's lifespan just removing mechanics and making everything incredibly grindy without real reason. Now i didnt touch this last update cuz im burned out and im taking a break from it until the devs wake up but im sure its another screw up like they have been doing these past months. I wouldnt be suprised. They also need to revisit the research tree there are so many things that makes absolutely zero sense to have on the bottom tree of the branch... maaany things you never use but you still research cuz there is no point anymore. Why im going to bother adding more luxury once i have my school in place? why im going to bother to make things more beautiufl, at that point i dont really care. Why im going to bother to do anything at all?

But what if we could build another school from scratch with everything we learned (aka everything) in another landscape (once you build your school there is no point on re building everythin again to make another different school.. it just takes extremely long), with rougher elevations and different weather and whatnot. We could learn a teleport spell that will teleport us to another place... where we can build another school, using the staff we already have, etc. That end-game content will make this game amazing but unitl something like that happens, this game will be downgrading until most people stop playing.

[Greymane]

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

Welcome to mind over magic, where every update makes the game worst, not the opposite around. Instead on focusing on end-game content they are just doing everything they can to extend the game's lifespan just removing mechanics and making everything incredibly grindy without real reason.

Thank you for this! Was looking at possibly buying and will hold off for now. This is why it is always good to check current discussions and not go solely with review scores on Early Access games.

[Tobijon]

Its just an opinion, the game is good

[Captain Seasick]

Originally posted by Greymane:

Originally posted by n3mes1s:

Welcome to mind over magic, where every update makes the game worst, not the opposite around. Instead on focusing on end-game content they are just doing everything they can to extend the game's lifespan just removing mechanics and making everything incredibly grindy without real reason.

Thank you for this! Was looking at possibly buying and will hold off for now. This is why it is always good to check current discussions and not go solely with review scores on Early Access games.

Don't bother listening to that moron. He literally only trolls the forums here to be a gigantic prat. Take it from me, the game IS worth getting if you like the premise. It's early access and therefore subject to change (as any halfway decent beta-state game should be) but overall it's NOWHERE NEAR as "bad" as that raving loon claims.

[PyroMancer]

I don't really find it that grindy unless you are doing low level encounters. Just like any RPG if your high level character goes to fight a bunch of low level encounters you aren't gonna gain XP or levels anytime soon.

The wards in the underground I think are best used to complete trials, get resources, and quickly level up the Initiates 1-6. If you do all 5 trails of T3 wand before gaining Apprentice the XP bonus pretty much jumps you straight to level 11. From there it's just one more level to Max for Apprentice.

In my experience it takes me more time to cap out my skills and trails than it does to hit level cap. Another great source of XP is pushing back the fog. The level 12 encounters I've had give me 16K-45K XP depending on what monsters spawn in there. Also great for Relic farming as it's faster than training students.

This only really works if you have a fast spread of the fog. I have it set to the max spread so that I need to push it back every 4-5 days which then nets me 2-5 Level 12 battles. Easy enough to cap off Apprentice and great for working on level Staff which have Cap of 18.

Remember the game is still EA and the road map shows there is lot more end game content planned. So bound to be higher level encounters than level 12 since Mages and Relics go to 18. And higher level encounters give more XP so it'll likely be even easier as more is added.

EDIT:
Here's example of Level 12 XP Rewards.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3272745357

[Tobijon]

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

Originally posted by Greymane:

Thank you for this! Was looking at possibly buying and will hold off for now. This is why it is always good to check current discussions and not go solely with review scores on Early Access games.

Don't bother listening to that moron. He literally only trolls the forums here to be a gigantic prat. Take it from me, the game IS worth getting if you like the premise. It's early access and therefore subject to change (as any halfway decent beta-state game should be) but overall it's NOWHERE NEAR as "bad" as that raving loon claims.

Originally posted by tobijon:

Its just an opinion, the game is good

And you're a brainless fanboy that didn't even read the OP at all. Go away and stay away.

Why are you calling me brainless when you're agreeing with me? I was responding to Greymane about the troll

[Captain Seasick]

Originally posted by tobijon:

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

Don't bother listening to that moron. He literally only trolls the forums here to be a gigantic prat. Take it from me, the game IS worth getting if you like the premise. It's early access and therefore subject to change (as any halfway decent beta-state game should be) but overall it's NOWHERE NEAR as "bad" as that raving loon claims.



And you're a brainless fanboy that didn't even read the OP at all. Go away and stay away.

Why are you calling me brainless when you're agreeing with me? I was responding to Greymane about the troll

Well ♥♥♥♥... sorry mate. I thought you were responding to me criticizing the game for having a tedious leveling system. Me be stoopid.

[Tobijon]

maybe I should have quoted, but I thought it was obvious, sorry. I'll respond to your post now. In the earlier system I think the students were being trained a little fast, leading to high turnover and a lot of wandcrafting, it also limits the total amount of students a lot because of how quickly they graduate. I can understand however that in the new system it might go too slow. They have a lot of balancing to do, maybe also a setting for learning speed of the students.

[Captain Seasick]

Originally posted by tobijon:

maybe I should have quoted, but I thought it was obvious, sorry. I'll respond to your post now. In the earlier system I think the students were being trained a little fast, leading to high turnover and a lot of wandcrafting, it also limits the total amount of students a lot because of how quickly they graduate. I can understand however that in the new system it might go too slow. They have a lot of balancing to do, maybe also a setting for learning speed of the students.

Yeah, I agree it was a bit too quick to train students with the previous system, but I'll take that over grindy tediousness any day. This new system is ESPECIALLY annoying when you ignore students and instead look at staff. Say you've got a right good one in your staff that you wanna keep, but their wand's not yet T3. If you upgrade their wand then it'll take INSANELY long for them to level up at all.

Students aren't that horribly slow since they got their trials giving 'em massive chunks of bonus EXP, but for staff that're already hired? Yeah, no, it's a bloody slog and then some.

[Solon64]

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

Originally posted by tobijon:

maybe I should have quoted, but I thought it was obvious, sorry. I'll respond to your post now. In the earlier system I think the students were being trained a little fast, leading to high turnover and a lot of wandcrafting, it also limits the total amount of students a lot because of how quickly they graduate. I can understand however that in the new system it might go too slow. They have a lot of balancing to do, maybe also a setting for learning speed of the students.

Yeah, I agree it was a bit too quick to train students with the previous system, but I'll take that over grindy tediousness any day. This new system is ESPECIALLY annoying when you ignore students and instead look at staff. Say you've got a right good one in your staff that you wanna keep, but their wand's not yet T3. If you upgrade their wand then it'll take INSANELY long for them to level up at all.

Students aren't that horribly slow since they got their trials giving 'em massive chunks of bonus EXP, but for staff that're already hired? Yeah, no, it's a bloody slog and then some.

For staff that you already have, you can just retire them. Yeah, it stinks sometimes, especially when you have one you like, but replacing them with apprentices who have completed their trials can end up saving a lot of time, and its sort of designed that way already, to have relatively high turnover of students AND staff.

Or you can keep them. It isn't as if there's a particular time pressure to level ALL your staff to max level as quickly as possible. If you don't need them for combat, you can totally just let them do their thing around the school, teaching students and building stuff - levels only matter for combat after all.

[Philtre]

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

This new system is ESPECIALLY annoying when you ignore students and instead look at staff. Say you've got a right good one in your staff that you wanna keep, but their wand's not yet T3. If you upgrade their wand then it'll take INSANELY long for them to level up at all.

For most of your people, it doesn't really matter. Skill level is important for everything, but character level only affects combat stats. So get all your staff to T3 wands ASAP so they can level their skills as they work around the school; the specific staff members you take into dungeons will get XP from the dungeons to make them better at fighting dungeons, so that solves itself.

[PyroMancer]

Originally posted by Philtre:

For most of your people, it doesn't really matter. Skill level is important for everything, but character level only affects combat stats. So get all your staff to T3 wands ASAP so they can level their skills as they work around the school; the specific staff members you take into dungeons will get XP from the dungeons to make them better at fighting dungeons, so that solves itself.

Yeah I only really care about level for being able to complete graduation or hire as staff. I find for combat that having good relics matters far more as some level 8-10 relics can drastically improve your combat.

I got on mage with 4 relics which each do 20-30 boost to power on Air Mage and he Triple strikes for 100+ each so 300+ damage in one attack. Also got fire mage with boosted mana relics doing over 500 damage opening hit since it's based off mana amount.

The extra levels mean very little and as posted above with screenshot there are high level dungeon fights which you can repeat to power level quickly.

[Captain Seasick]

Originally posted by Philtre:

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

This new system is ESPECIALLY annoying when you ignore students and instead look at staff. Say you've got a right good one in your staff that you wanna keep, but their wand's not yet T3. If you upgrade their wand then it'll take INSANELY long for them to level up at all.

For most of your people, it doesn't really matter. Skill level is important for everything, but character level only affects combat stats. So get all your staff to T3 wands ASAP so they can level their skills as they work around the school; the specific staff members you take into dungeons will get XP from the dungeons to make them better at fighting dungeons, so that solves itself.

I'm pretty damn sure that's not how it works. In fact, I'm almost certain character levels also affect max skill cap. But even if it doesn't, the max mana cap alone makes for a pretty damn HUGE difference out of combat.

[PyroMancer]

Originally posted by Captain Seasick:

Incorrect. Character levels also affect their potential max skill level. Each character level adds +1 skill cap to a random magic type. So the idea that "character levels only affects combat" is patently false.

?!? What are you talking about. That's not how the Skill system works.

Skills are as follows
Mage +1 In ALL
Wand T1 +2 Primary +1 in TWO Random
Wand T2 +1 Primary +1 in ONE Random
Wand T3 +1 Primary +1 in TWO Random

Thus an initiate with T5 Wand will have 5 in primary skill and a mix in the other skills. For specialization the most an initiate can get is 5 Primary, 4 Secondary, and 3 in Tertiary. Then it's just a matter of what you get an apprenticeship in.

Max Apprentice skills
Specialize in wand element: 8/4/3 and 0 in opposite 2.
Specialize in Adjacent element: 7/6/3
Specialize in other 4 elements 6/6/(2-3) and (0-1) as it gives -1 to two opposite elements

Thus if you wanna maximize your Skills it's best to hope the wand rolls the other element your wanting to specialize in for all 3 tiers. That way you get most skills in your 2 specializations. Sure you can use Relics to give skill boost to sure up the difference but I prefer to use combat buff relics so it's best to get student with the correct skills from the start.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3273431305