Retire your original staff by day 50

[Tobold]

I was reading some negative reviews complaining that you can't give your existing character higher tier wands that you researched. I think that this misunderstands one of the core characteristics of Mind over Magic compared to other games in the same genre: Characters are designed to be disposable.

That is most evident with the students you just educate to graduate them and turn them into scrolls. But the same is true for staff: You can only have a certain number of staff, limited by the rising summoning cost for them and your ability to house and feed them well. Thus somewhere in mid game (day 50 in the title is just a random number), you will want to have the maximum number of staff you can afford all with tier II wands, and as far as possible gifted. Which means that you will have to retire all of your original staff by then.

Then you will probably eye tier III wands, and quickly notice something: You need a huge amount of arcane scrolls to research those, frequently 96 to unlock one. Which is a lot if you are getting 2 or 3 of those in Underschool fights of 1 or 2 skulls difficulty. This is where staff being disposable becomes even more extreme: When you push back the fog in the later game, you will uncover fights with 3 or 4 skulls that are available only for 12 hours. The 3-skull fights give 50 arcane scrolls, the 4-skull fights give 150. These fights are very tough, but possible if you take a lot of potions with you. Thus you should really consider trying these, even if that might very well cost you a few death saves or even kill one or two of your staff.

Note that getting to a full cast of tier III staff is basically the end of the game, and thus it is currently very grindy to achieve this goal (mostly due to limited availability of Thorntooth and Ignium). But hey, the game is still in Early Access, and might improve on the end game or add another tier.

Characters are disposable in Mind over Magic, and the game flows a lot smoother if you treat them like that.

[Errapel]

I can understand why this isn't to everyone's tastes. I personally enjoy a game where I can have characters and stories, while Mind over Magic means that no matter how interesting a character might be, I'm still going to have to retire them sooner rather than later. Which is sad.

The mechanic is working as intended of course, but I get why that's not everyone's cup of tea.

[Halfshell]

Day 50? Shoot for 20 if you're good and 30 if you're taking your time designing.

Originally posted by Errapel:

I personally enjoy a game where I can have characters and stories, while Mind over Magic means that no matter how interesting a character might be, I'm still going to have to retire them sooner rather than later.

I feel like you're coming into this expecting Rimworld or DF. This is essentially Harry Potter the game. Where each character is passing on the torch to the next. It would help if you thought of the game like its in a timewarp bubble where time passes much faster. I see so many moments that tell their own story in this, while I rarely (if ever) felt the same in other management games. I think try to go in with a fresh perspective and it might help!

[Graufang]

I don't like this mechanism. I mean, I customize my characters, I name them, and I don't want to be forced to lose them. Of course, I could just take what the game puts in front of me and treat them as a resource, but I spend some time on character creation to create the teachers I want. Customize their appearance to their magical school, etc. (Yes, character creation is rudimentary, but still) Knowing that none of this really matters is something I don't like about this game.
I want an option to evolve my characters and keep them throughout the game. (Unless they die in the dungeon or something)

[Halfshell]

I mean honestly sounds like its just not the game for you because thats not what this 1s about at all. There are plenty of games that are geared for that, I like this 1 because its not.

[Tobold]

Originally posted by Graufang:

I don't like this mechanism. I mean, I customize my characters, I name them, and I don't want to be forced to lose them. Of course, I could just take what the game puts in front of me and treat them as a resource, but I spend some time on character creation to create the teachers I want. Customize their appearance to their magical school, etc. (Yes, character creation is rudimentary, but still) Knowing that none of this really matters is something I don't like about this game.
I want an option to evolve my characters and keep them throughout the game. (Unless they die in the dungeon or something)

I think this is valid feedback to the developers. I could totally imagine a system in which at least you can give your existing characters a higher tier wand, without that breaking the game. Hiring a new, gifted student is always going to give you a better result, as you can get more medaillons. But keeping original characters viable a bit longer by giving them a new wand could still work for those players who got attached to their characters.

[MightyFox]

Originally posted by Tobold:

I think this is valid feedback to the developers. I could totally imagine a system in which at least you can give your existing characters a higher tier wand, without that breaking the game. Hiring a new, gifted student is always going to give you a better result, as you can get more medaillons. But keeping original characters viable a bit longer by giving them a new wand could still work for those players who got attached to their characters.

I agree. Though I feel teachers should be expendable in some way, and have the ability to be killed in combat, or lost to the fog, etc... If they are going the colony sim route, people are going to form little attachments to their colonists.

However, training students into staff is currently the only real reason to have students at all. The scrolls from graduation aren't required in large enough numbers to keep the school in use for more than a few classes. This means any ritual or item required to upgrade a teacher's wand will have to prohibitively expensive to balance it, or the game loses a key game play loop.

[Graufang]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

I mean honestly sounds like its just not the game for you because thats not what this 1s about at all. There are plenty of games that are geared for that, I like this 1 because its not.

The game description says: "[...]Keep everyone alive and content while preparing students to explore the horrors of the Underschool[...]".
This suggests that the teachers are preparing the newcomers for what is to come. This does not mean that you have to throw your teachers away. The opposite is indicated.
Yes death is a mechanic:
"[...]Death is tragic and painful, but the spirits left behind help out in their own unique ways.[...]"
But that is something very differend from not beeing able to keep the teachers I want.
So why should I think this game is not for me?

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Graufang:

Originally posted by Halfshell:

I mean honestly sounds like its just not the game for you because thats not what this 1s about at all. There are plenty of games that are geared for that, I like this 1 because its not.

"[...]Keep everyone alive and content while preparing students to explore the horrors of the Underschool[...]".
Yes death is a mechanic:
"[...]Death is tragic and painful, but the spirits left behind help out in their own unique ways.[...]"

Why do you assume I mean to kill your teachers/ let them die? They can retire with honors and live a life somewhere safer, more peaceful and not threatened by the Eldritch. Let someone more qualified step up to the podium and teach the next generation.

I don't feel anything I've said contradicts with what you just quoted.

[Graufang]

Originally posted by Halfshell:

Originally posted by Graufang:

"[...]Keep everyone alive and content while preparing students to explore the horrors of the Underschool[...]".
Yes death is a mechanic:
"[...]Death is tragic and painful, but the spirits left behind help out in their own unique ways.[...]"

Why do you assume I mean to kill your teachers/ let them die? They can retire with honors and live a life somewhere safer, more peaceful and not threatened by the Eldritch. Let someone more qualified step up to the podium and teach the next generation.

I don't feel anything I've said contradicts with what you just quoted.

There has probably been a slight misunderstanding here. (Damn the language barrier!)
I didn't think you were saying that the teachers should die. But their death is an option in this game, and that's perfectly fine with me.

What I meant was your statement that this is the wrong game for me. Maybe it is, maybe it isn't. I don't know what direction the game will ultimately take. But in the game description I quoted, there was no indication that the game might not be what I thought it would be. Keeping the teachers didn't seem out of the question in the description. And the ability to customize the teachers to your liking reinforced that assumption. That was my point.
Anyway, we'll see how the game develops, and in time I'll know whether I like it or not. Until then, I'm having a lot of fun building my school. But there are also things I don't like, which I think is fine.

[Halfshell]

Originally posted by Graufang:

[...] Until then, I'm having a lot of fun building my school. But there are also things I don't like, which I think is fine.

Yeah thats fair, maybe I misunderstood your original point aswell.

[sockmoxy]

I think what might work nicely would be a mechanic where we could commemorate teachers who have retired (or, I suppose, die.) Could I perhaps have someone paint a portrait of them that would contain their info and basic stats that I could hang on the dining room walls for a luxury point or two? Or a plaque perhaps. I feel like a bust would take up too much space lol. But a little memento would be a nice touch.

[PaloG]

Originally posted by sockmoxy:

I think what might work nicely would be a mechanic where we could commemorate teachers who have retired (or, I suppose, die.) Could I perhaps have someone paint a portrait of them that would contain their info and basic stats that I could hang on the dining room walls for a luxury point or two? Or a plaque perhaps. I feel like a bust would take up too much space lol. But a little memento would be a nice touch.

The statues and paintings you can craft actually have a chance of giving you characters from your school. I got so excited when I got one of my Dark Raven Cult teacher. And almost right after got a painting of my retired Fire teacher(The say "statue/portrait of x" when you hover over them. I've also gotten several of my students

[sockmoxy]

Oh that's delightful. Something to look forward to!

[Tobold]

Since the most recent patch, Smokepearls are easier to get. Before that, it was often easiest to deliberately kill a character and bury him in a Wandering Mage grave, from where he would go out and collect Smokepearls every night. :)

But yeah, in general you "graduate" students and "retire" staff, not kill them.

[Lasse]

I agree. This gameplay loop is very satisfying indeed. Seeing the new recruits getting more and more powerful is very addictive.