State of the Gameplay, ST:E.

[Danneskjold]

Hi again!

This post will cover a broader range of Topics and the things that affect and change gameplay. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Drone Bugs

This might be the largest problem I have in the game. In my opinion, Drones should *not* be aggressive. They should, however, have hidden objectives and the ability to work together more efficiently.

For example, one hidden objective would be to open up a bug hole somewhere nearby. The game wouldn't tell you this would happen, and it'd be up to you to figure out that the drones are gathering. If enough drones gather for enough time, a bug hole will spawn spewing forth more bugs for you to kill and destroy the hole. And then other hidden missions can happen. Like the drones can dig a hole from outside the base, to inside the base.

Further, drones working together add cumulative bonuses to their damage. So one drone attacking a base wall structure probably won't take it down. 2 would equal a warrior's damage. 3 would equal 2 warriors. And on, and on...

Difficulty Levels - Easy - Normal - Hard

I don't think that bug durability should change between the difficulty modes. But bug intelligence and strategies should. If there's one through-line in all of the movies and books and media it's that the bugs are smarter than we think. And a warrior bug shouldn't be tougher or easier to kill from Easy to Hard, but the warrior bug behavior should change.

For example, in Hard Mode a lone grenadier should spawn WAY over there. So you and your friends go out to kill it. Surprise, ambush! Warrior bugs pop out of the ground, and now you're fighting for your life.

Couple this with the Drone Bug change, and you start to introduce things the bugs do to be smarter. For example, you could make it so that drone bugs take down a few walls on your base. The moment they go down, warriors tunnel up and rush through!

Horde Mode

This is a fun game mode, but IMO it needs to be less like Tower Defense, and more like World War Z. The tough part of WWZ (game) horde mode wasn't that more and more zombies swarmed you. It was that at some point they stopped coming in waves, and started arriving constantly. Your ammo reserves and ability to set up defenses becomes more and more taxed.

So I'd take a cue from WWZ. I'd allow constant building (rather than short periods), and set goals for when you get more resources. And theoretically, there would be no end to the "waves." But lastly, I'd give the troopers a "Chicken Out" button. Enough troopers hit it (say 1/3rd or half of alive troopers?), and it calls a drop ship. You would get more rewards for making it out alive than staying and all dying.

It is in the book that the Mobile Infantry sometimes attacked just to fight and then retreated when they couldn't take anymore, so it's lore accurate.

Advance and Secure Mode

The goals of the mission don't make sense, so the structure of how it happens needs to change. As it is currently, you invade bug territory, you build a kick-butt base, and then... You leave? If you're leaving, you aren't securing anything. You haven't accomplished anything but killing a few bugs and eating up "free" building resources.

So we change it up. Now, the ARC doesn't drop. A landing pad drops. 3x3 in the middle of the base. You invade bug territory, you build up a base, and then you survive 3-6 waves of bugs. If the landing pad is overrun, you escape and get picked up elsewhere. Mission Defeat.

If you survive, a Dropship lands in the middle of the base, and lets out a bunch of NPC troopers. You've now "secured" the base. Mission Win. NO RUSH TO A DROPSHIP. Mission over.

ARC Mode

Just a simple addition is needed. Right now, it's not very clear what's happening in the missions, and why. Hence the suggestion for AAS to actually Secure and stay at the base.

My suggestion for ARC is that after every ARC slam, the players can see a holographic representation of the bug tunnels under the base. Every slam, the holo gets larger. I.E. You learn more about the bug tunnels. This will directly show the players what is happening.

Mutators

The mutators are fun. But there's a giant list of them and we hardly get to see the vast majority of them. Next, I think that winning against a bad mutator should offer an XP bonus on top of the extra bugs you've killed.

Perks

There aren't NEARLY enough perks. First, the Melee and Ranged Armor plus the extra utilities and ammo perks should be universal, and available at level 0.

Next, each class needs perks that modify the utilities and abilities of that class. For example, you can get a "Skate" perk for the Ranger. After boosting, you hold the jump button and you "slide" along the ground til you release it or hit something.

Or the sniper gets a perk to control his jump. He gets a tank % he can see, which does refill slowly, but that way the Sniper doesn't just do one big jump, and then is stuck.

We should have perks coming out of our ears to change how the classes play. Even to the point where 2 people playing the same class can do it in completely different ways. Not counting the default perks I listed, each class should get ~20 different perks to play with.

Dropship Retrieval

As it stands, a player can get more points for fighting bugs than they can for getting on the drop ship and going home. This needs to change!

There are several ways to fix this. The simplest would be to make it so that once a dropship touches down, the player doesn't get anymore points for killing bugs. Or how about larger, almost exponential rewards for each player that makes it on the ship. Like a stacking percentage increase to total round points. 16 players make it out, +160% your score. (This would need balancing.)

Or what if the Dropship itself was vulnerable to damage. So many times I stood in the dropship and there were so many bugs surrounding it, you would just see a mess of arms clipping through. Maybe if the ship takes X amount of damage, it takes off early, leaving people behind.



What do you think of these points?

[owi_pmo]

Thanks so much for this feedback the team loves getting such well put together thoughts on our game.....

[John Destiny]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

Hi again!

This post will cover a broader range of Topics and the things that affect and change gameplay. The good, the bad, and the ugly.

Drone Bugs

This might be the largest problem I have in the game. In my opinion, Drones should *not* be aggressive. They should, however, have hidden objectives and the ability to work together more efficiently.

For example, one hidden objective would be to open up a bug hole somewhere nearby. The game wouldn't tell you this would happen, and it'd be up to you to figure out that the drones are gathering. If enough drones gather for enough time, a bug hole will spawn spewing forth more bugs for you to kill and destroy the hole. And then other hidden missions can happen. Like the drones can dig a hole from outside the base, to inside the base.

Further, drones working together add cumulative bonuses to their damage. So one drone attacking a base wall structure probably won't take it down. 2 would equal a warrior's damage. 3 would equal 2 warriors. And on, and on...

Difficulty Levels - Easy - Normal - Hard

I don't think that bug durability should change between the difficulty modes. But bug intelligence and strategies should. If there's one through-line in all of the movies and books and media it's that the bugs are smarter than we think. And a warrior bug shouldn't be tougher or easier to kill from Easy to Hard, but the warrior bug behavior should change.

For example, in Hard Mode a lone grenadier should spawn WAY over there. So you and your friends go out to kill it. Surprise, ambush! Warrior bugs pop out of the ground, and now you're fighting for your life.

Couple this with the Drone Bug change, and you start to introduce things the bugs do to be smarter. For example, you could make it so that drone bugs take down a few walls on your base. The moment they go down, warriors tunnel up and rush through!

Horde Mode

This is a fun game mode, but IMO it needs to be less like Tower Defense, and more like World War Z. The tough part of WWZ (game) horde mode wasn't that more and more zombies swarmed you. It was that at some point they stopped coming in waves, and started arriving constantly. Your ammo reserves and ability to set up defenses becomes more and more taxed.

So I'd take a cue from WWZ. I'd allow constant building (rather than short periods), and set goals for when you get more resources. But lastly, I'd give the troopers a "Chicken Out" button. Enough troopers hit it (say 1/3rd or half of alive troopers?), and it calls a drop ship. You would get more rewards for making it out alive than staying and all dying.

It is in the book that the Mobile Infantry sometimes attacked just to fight and then retreated when they couldn't take anymore, so it's lore accurate.

Advance and Secure Mode

The goals of the mission don't make sense, so the structure of how it happens needs to change. As it is currently, you invade bug territory, you build a kick-butt base, and then... You leave? If you're leaving, you aren't securing anything. You haven't accomplished anything but killing a few bugs and eating up "free" building resources.

So we change it up. Now, the ARC doesn't drop. A landing pad drops. 3x3 in the middle of the base. You invade bug territory, you build up a base, and then you survive 3-6 waves of bugs. If the landing pad is overrun, you escape and get picked up elsewhere. Mission Defeat.

If you survive, a Dropship lands in the middle of the base, and lets out a bunch of NPC troopers. You've now "secured" the base. Mission Win. NO RUSH TO A DROPSHIP. Mission over.

Mutators

The mutators are fun. But there's a giant list of them and we hardly get to see the vast majority of them. Next, I think that winning against a bad mutator should offer an XP bonus on top of the extra bugs you've killed.

Perks

There aren't NEARLY enough perks. First, the Melee and Ranged Armor plus the extra utilities and ammo perks should be universal, and available at level 0.

Next, each class needs perks that modify the utilities and abilities of that class. For example, you can get a "Skate" perk for the Ranger. After boosting, you hold the jump button and you "slide" along the ground til you release it or hit something.

Or the sniper gets a perk to control his jump. He gets a tank % he can see, which does refill slowly, but that way the Sniper doesn't just do one big jump, and then is stuck.

We should have perks coming out of our ears to change how the classes play. Even to the point where 2 people playing the same class can do it in completely different ways. Not counting the default perks I listed, each class should get ~20 different perks to play with.

Dropship Retrieval

As it stands, a player can get more points for fighting bugs than they can for getting on the drop ship and going home. This needs to change!

There are several ways to fix this. The simplest would be to make it so that once a dropship touches down, the player doesn't get anymore points for killing bugs. Or how about larger, almost exponential rewards for each player that makes it on the ship. Like a stacking percentage increase to total round points. 16 players make it out, +160% your score. (This would need balancing.)

Or what if the Dropship itself was vulnerable to damage. So many times I stood in the dropship and there were so many bugs surrounding it, you would just see a mess of arms clipping through. Maybe if the ship takes X amount of damage, it takes off early, leaving people behind.



What do you think of these points?

You basically want to fundamentally completely change the entire game. Not saying some of the suggestions arent interesting but changing the core mechanics of how the game works would

1. Take considerable effort on the dev teams part and

2. Completely divide the community.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by John Helldiver:

You basically want to fundamentally completely change the entire game. Not saying some of the suggestions arent interesting but changing the core mechanics of how the game works would

1. Take considerable effort on the dev teams part and

2. Completely divide the community.

Yes, I do.

For example, AAS mission mode. You could change the name to "Hit and Run," and change nothing else. Then it would make sense. But as it stands, every single game mode ends by running on to the drop ship, and then leaving. If every single game mode basically works the same, do you really have different game modes?

So my proposal is one mission type (for now) that ends in a different way than every other mission type.


But mostly what I'm asking for is to make the game more intelligent. (Not saying the game is dumb...) Us "capitalist apes" in spaceships and suits of armor need to out think the "communist arachnids" in bug holes in order to win. And having players engage their brains more will lead to more interesting and better gameplay, in my opinion.

[John Destiny]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

Originally posted by John Helldiver:

You basically want to fundamentally completely change the entire game. Not saying some of the suggestions arent interesting but changing the core mechanics of how the game works would

1. Take considerable effort on the dev teams part and

2. Completely divide the community.

Yes, I do.

For example, AAS mission mode. You could change the name to "Hit and Run," and change nothing else. Then it would make sense. But as it stands, every single game mode ends by running on to the drop ship, and then leaving. If every single game mode basically works the same, do you really have different game modes?

So my proposal is one mission type (for now) that ends in a different way than every other mission type.


But mostly what I'm asking for is to make the game more intelligent. (Not saying the game is dumb...) Us "capitalist apes" in spaceships and suits of armor need to out think the "communist arachnids" in bug holes in order to win. And having players engage their brains more will lead to more interesting and better gameplay, in my opinion.

You say AAS as it stands right now doesnt have a purpose, but it does. Its basically a simpler, and most importantly, faster version of ARC. You can hop in, and be done with an AAS match usually much faster than ARC. Changing it to be more in-depth than what it already is would add a decent amount of length to it, which would kinda defeat the purpose of the mode IMO.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by John Helldiver:

You say AAS as it stands right now doesnt have a purpose, but it does. Its basically a simpler, and most importantly, faster version of ARC. You can hop in, and be done with an AAS match usually much faster than ARC. Changing it to be more in-depth than what it already is would add a decent amount of length to it, which would kinda defeat the purpose of the mode IMO.

Why would it change the length of the mission? All I'm proposing is a different end condition. Leave it entirely the same, UNTIL you defeat the last wave. Then, instead of leaving base and running to a dropship *somewhere* on the map, the dropship would land right in the middle of the base. And once the NPC troopers unload, it's mission over. You win.

It might even be quicker if you account for the fact that there is no longer a mad dash to the ship and the 3 minute timer to get everyone on (not considering that it's more profitable to NOT get on and keep killing bugs, currently).

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by owi_pmo:

Thanks so much for this feedback the team loves getting such well put together thoughts on our game.....

Please check out my other 2 threads.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1268750/discussions/0/578249790940293450/

https://steamcommunity.com/app/1268750/discussions/0/578249962076303627/

[Crusader99]

For the drones bugs I like that idea

the drones should have different purposes other than ambush. I believe they should have scout capabilites which could add a new threat to the players. Wandering small packs randomly spawning in areas in maps furthest from ore and gas drills, places players do not really go. The scouts slowly move listening for trooper sound(presence) they report back if they don't get discovered. If they do die a new drone will spawn resuming their mission. They are linked to the brain bugs pheromones like a queen bee is my belief then hopefully a horde of bugs attacks the base this can included a special bugs. Like the game state of decay 2 with they zombies hordes can spawn up as lowest 3-5 (drone pack) 9-12 small pack (warrior pack) then 12-16 a special bugs spawns with a warrior horde but is limited to 3(special bugs+warrior bugs) with different spawn rates like you say grenaderes but they stay hidden just warriors slowing moving to group up. For a massive goal to have is 2 hordes combining and spawning a hive if need be more than 1 time a game. All them depsawn but in its place a royal spawns and linked to the royal is the hive after say 50 mins which is I say a long game they evolve to start sending tiger packs to the base

I also think the devs should add something like mix thehunter call of the wild with its purple zones around loud areas like GAS, ORE and ARC all a moving structure, they should make sounds which alerts bugs to your location and once they know your location by gun shot they always know where you are no matter

Another use is using like you say the 1+ to each stacking which would also be a great add but limited to structures. They go for the least active zone always slowly going for the weak spot in the base to help set a ambush on base. A small horde of them could attack

[Crusader99]

For the sound bit I think the structures release a frequency only the bugs can hear then they go see what it is, curiosity or the brain learnt the sound = us

[kampfer91]

Bombadier / pill bug damage type should be changed to only affect player and not building . There are matches in which bug threat sit at level 0 , ARC just drop and suddenly a bunch of bombadier spawn and instantly one shot the ARC despite everyone effort to stop them , but a small and very fast bug translate into laggy movement . Instantly game over at that point is not " fun " , more like frustrating and leave everyone dumbfound .

There should be another medium size bug that specialized in destroy structure , like rhinobug.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

Bombadier / pill bug damage type should be changed to only affect player and not building . There are matches in which bug threat sit at level 0 , ARC just drop and suddenly a bunch of bombadier spawn and instantly one shot the ARC despite everyone effort to stop them , but a small and very fast bug translate into laggy movement . Instantly game over at that point is not " fun " , more like frustrating and leave everyone dumbfound .

There should be another medium size bug that specialized in destroy structure , like rhinobug.

I've been told that the spawn system is broken and is getting completely rewritten. Don't know if it's true, but...


A Rhinobug would be cool. We're still missing a scorpion bug (the inferno bug is completely separate).

[mcnoople]

I approve of some of the OPs thoughts but not all.

Drone changes are an interesting idea........but in the book it clearly states that warriors and workers look almost identical so I think adding a worker class to do what you are asking the drones to do would make more sense. Players would have to worry about the "warrior" looking bugs that are just standing in a circle.

More perks and customization for the classes is never a bad idea.

Drop ship retrieval changes/no exp after ship is just plain a bad idea. I only play horde these days. When playing horde on X11 there is only 2 locations: outpost and faciliity. I usually play medic on these maps with a XXX sniper rifle. From on top of the towers or above the base you can farm revives while dealing with the pesky gunner spawns. I can't even begin to count how many teams I have gotten to the dropship after a loss. The drawback is that I don't make it to the dropship. Reviving players that are 300 meters away repeatedly should get me EXP especially since they will be getting the extract bonus solely due to my actions.

[Crusader99]

For the difficulty levels

I think we need to be patient until hero of the federation 1 so that people who want a challenge, has their challenge before we start changing what we got currently. I do think each bug should have they tactic to make it seem they have a hive mind even if the brain bug is not in the game yet.

Once we got hero level the devs could make a normal difficulty with difficulty bonuses of normal or easy with extra spawns similar to Hard. I think this could be fun to play, lots of bugs but not so bullet sponge.

Devs would have to make or remake the tutorial to show each mission type with bots or make easy the new tutorial so new players are not thrown into either difficulty as quick play still allows new players into hard

[Crusader99]

For the horde

I think the earlier rounds need more bugs, it's too easy till 6-8+ rounds. In exchange for more bugs we get more ore each level with extra bit of time to make a good base before the end.

It should have a different feel to a tower defence game and I agree it should be a bit like World War z type. But once again I think we need to wait for hero level for this to work so that the devs can tinker with the difficultys.

[Crusader99]

The devs could combine both the missions AAS and ARC so that we do a AAS begning with the ARC mode once you put the HQ down with double ore to start. This could be the imbetween and allow for a change in level designs

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by mcnoople:

I approve of some of the OPs thoughts but not all.

Drone changes are an interesting idea........but in the book it clearly states that warriors and workers look almost identical so I think adding a worker class to do what you are asking the drones to do would make more sense. Players would have to worry about the "warrior" looking bugs that are just standing in a circle.

More perks and customization for the classes is never a bad idea.

Drop ship retrieval changes/no exp after ship is just plain a bad idea. I only play horde these days. When playing horde on X11 there is only 2 locations: outpost and faciliity. I usually play medic on these maps with a XXX sniper rifle. From on top of the towers or above the base you can farm revives while dealing with the pesky gunner spawns. I can't even begin to count how many teams I have gotten to the dropship after a loss. The drawback is that I don't make it to the dropship. Reviving players that are 300 meters away repeatedly should get me EXP especially since they will be getting the extract bonus solely due to my actions.

Note that I said "Bug Kills." Not all XP. Again, there needs to be larger bonuses for getting in the damn ship and NOT dying than there are for staying out and killing bugs.