State of the Weapons, ST:E.

[Danneskjold]

Hi there!

I've been playing STE since launch, and am also an inveterate Starship Troopers fan. So here's a summary of the weapons, their good and bad parts, and how to improve them.

Morita Mark 1

-> The best gun in the game, BY A LOT. I know it seems weird to say this about the default gun that everyone gets, but it's true. It delivers more damage, more accurately, at a longer range than basically every other gun in the game. And with it getting underbarrel weapons, it'll go from #1, to there being absolutely no reason to pick any other weapon. Even counting specialized weapons the different classes get. My only gripe is that it needs to have the option for a low power scope or 2. 2x and a 4x or something.

Morita Carbine

-> A fun weapon, but with the fact that the gun doing LESS damage than the regular Morita, there is little to no reason to actually pick the Carbine. If you think about it, it's just asinine that 2 "identical" weapons do 2 separate damage amounts. The Carbine does 1/5th less damage. It *should* do identical damage. Then you balance it based off of range (damage drop off), accuracy (shorter barrel), and rate of fire (faster is better). That way you're trading the long range Morita Battle Rifle (Mk 1) for the short range blaster (Carbine).

Morita Hawkeye

-> A great sniper rifle. Accurate, easy to use. Needs to get access to JHP bullets for increased crit damage.

Morita XXX

-> Another great sniper rifle. It's giant increase in damage coupled with low ammo count turns it into a big bug hunter, and that itself is fun. Needs the ability to mount the weapon to walls to increase accuracy.

Morita Tactical SMG

-> Not a good weapon, at all. Every other weapon performs better at every single aspect than the SMG. "Theoretically" if you put the muzzle right up against the bug, it has a great DPS. But in reality, you're not going to survive long giving each bug an SMG suppository. There are 2 ways to make this a viable weapon. The first is to turn it into a secondary weapon. As it stands, it's not a good primary weapon. But it'd be good as a backup weapon. Or, it needs increased damage with lower range (more damage drop off). A larger diameter SMG bullet should do more damage at point blank range than a smaller rifle round. But the inverse is true, too. At 100 yards, that rifle round will do a lot more damage than the SMG bullet.

Chi-Hong Grenade Launcher

-> Another poor primary weapon. Again, the solution may be to make it a secondary weapon as is. But to remain a viable primary weapon, it needs both or separately increased splash damage, or increased total damage. As a backup weapon for the Demolisher, it's an OK weapon useful in only a few scenarios over any other weapon.

FU-17 Flamethrower

-> Again, a poor primary weapon. However, this feels more like a Utility Item than either a Primary or Secondary weapon. If Engineers get points for destroying corpses, it may work as a secondary weapon. I personally don't think there's anything you can change that will make it a viable primary weapon. At least not without getting silly.

Shotguns

-> In my opinion, all three shotguns should be consolidated into one shotgun. And then you should earn the ability to add on a magazine. Or use Slugs instead of buckshot. Or turn the weapon fully auto. One big failure, though, is to have the SPLIT Auto shotgun do 1/3rd the damage of the regular or slug gun. That's just stupid. The downside of shotgun ammo is that it is very large and cumbersome compared to regular rifle ammo. If you want an automatic shotgun, you're going to run out of ammo quick. That's the downside.

If they refuse to make the same shotgun shells do the same damage, then the Auto Shotgun needs to be redesigned as an entirely new weapon. Like a new gun shooting .410 rather than 12 gauge. Think AR-12 rather than current SPLIT.

Morita Mk 3 SAW

-> The worst weapon available to the Guardian. It basically has equal DPS to the Morita Mark 1, however with its spectacular inaccuracy (especially compared to the Mark 1), there is no reason to pick it over the Mk1 or the EPulse 88. Basically the SAW is a *LOW DAMAGE, HIGH RECOIL* weapon. And this makes no sense. The developers need to figure out what they want from the SAW. Is it firing a LARGE bullet? Then it needs a big increase in damage, and no other changes. Is it firing a SMALL (relative) bullet? Then it needs a large decrease in recoil.

IMO, if you make the SAW a large bullet Medium Machine Gun, you open up a niche for a small bullet Light Machine Gun. Then you have the best of both worlds. And you have a brand new weapon to use.

E-Pulse 88

-> A great weapon. It's ability to shoot through bugs makes it a great railgun for taking on hordes of bugs. I only have 2 small qualms. The first is that the projectile shouldn't just disappear at a fixed range. If it's a rifleless rail gun, the projectile can tumble and become inaccurate at longer ranges. So I'd prefer a "trombone" scatter pattern than just having the rounds just poof into thin air. The second qualm is that if I'm shooting a bug with a hyper-velocity round, the bug should act, and react different than if hit with a regular bullet. New impact sounds and graphics are needed to hit this point home.

E-Pulse 44

-> A great weapon. Same problems with the E-Pulse 88, though.

Peacemaker Sidearm

-> A decent handgun. Nothing bad about it, I just prefer the Emancipator.

Emancipator

-> A good handgun. Not really any better or worse than the Peacemaker. Just personal preference.

E-Pulse Pistol

-> An interesting auto handgun. There's not any unique things about it, though. It doesn't really do anything different or better than the other 2. And I don't really know what to change to make it interesting or worthwhile over the other 2 weapons.

[stanley37861]

I am going to have to disagree a bit here. The MK1 is a good weapon for everything but the Morita Hawkeye is far better then the MK1. 3 shots from the Hawkeye can kill a bug where as it takes a whole mag to kill the same bug. I have used up my full load of MK1 ammo on a plasma and still didnt kill it before. my biggest problem with the hawkeye is the ammo is so much smaller then the ammo you get for the MK1. As long as you have ammo and no bug is going to surprise you then the hawkeye is better then the MK1 in every way. The problem is getting ammo is often is hard to come by. For close range the Shotgun is a far better weapon then the MK1. You stun the enemy and you can kill it quickly. The MK1 its a coin flip if your going to kill it or not. The problem with the shotgun is no range. Hawkeye and shotgun mix I think is a great setup for this game (yes you can only get it with demo). Because each of those weapons has its weakness the MK1 is a good weapon just because it can do something. E-Pulse 88 personally I think is trash but thats just me. I know many people disagree with me on that. the rest ok yea I feel close enough to how you feel that I am not going talk about.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by stanley37861:

I am going to have to disagree a bit here. The MK1 is a good weapon for everything but the Morita Hawkeye is far better then the MK1. 3 shots from the Hawkeye can kill a bug where as it takes a whole mag to kill the same bug. I have used up my full load of MK1 ammo on a plasma and still didnt kill it before. my biggest problem with the hawkeye is the ammo is so much smaller then the ammo you get for the MK1. As long as you have ammo and no bug is going to surprise you then the hawkeye is better then the MK1 in every way. The problem is getting ammo is often is hard to come by. For close range the Shotgun is a far better weapon then the MK1. You stun the enemy and you can kill it quickly. The MK1 its a coin flip if your going to kill it or not. The problem with the shotgun is no range. Hawkeye and shotgun mix I think is a great setup for this game (yes you can only get it with demo). Because each of those weapons has its weakness the MK1 is a good weapon just because it can do something. E-Pulse 88 personally I think is trash but thats just me. I know many people disagree with me on that. the rest ok yea I feel close enough to how you feel that I am not going talk about.

The slug gun IS the most powerful gun in the game. And I enjoy the hell out of it. But it doesn't change the fact that you've basically gotta feed the bug the gun to kill him with it. And that means the bug can kill you, too.

The Morita Mk1 can accurately hit a bug's weak spot at range, and kill it at range. And a bug dead all the way over there is better than a bug dead at your feet.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

Carbine has much better stagger than the mk1, which is obviously more useful when facing a horde of bugs. Stock will get you killed as the bugs will just push though the bullets. Stagger gives you time to get away as you can stagger far more bugs with one clip then you can put down with one clip of the stock. I wouldn't pick either with the current absurd big bug spawns, but the carbine does have one clear advantage. It's why it's paired with the ranger to give a ranger more time to regen jump time.

Gl is great if you can aim, clearing bugs out extremely quickly. Combine with a lure and it's a map clearer if you can keep it reloaded. It's a horrible weapon if you can't aim or project trajectories. But that's more on the player than the weapon. Being able to one shot warriors and take down big bugs quickly means it's going to have to have some balance issues of smaller splash damage. But for what it does, it's a solid choice especially in the era of a dozen plasmas and a dozen tigers spawning at the same time. Furthermore, being able to one shot at long range at any angle on virtually any part of the warrior body makes it more useful than weapons that are only decent if you can hit the weak point and where damage falls off as distance increases. I've saved plenty of troopers by raining gl fire from above and taking out hordes of warriors way faster than any mk1 could dream of.

The saw is meant as a stagger weapon it's not meant to be a primary damage dealer but a weapon to slow bugs down to give your teammates time to deal with them. If you purely look at it from a single player sort of view were individual damage overrides everything, it's a poor weapon outside a few circumstances. But as a team tool, it's very helpful in slowing hordes down.

Flamer is.... Barely useful most of the time and extremely useful in rare circumstances where the base is built to funnel bugs into choke points and the rest of the team can kill the plasmas before they wreck the base. Devs need to at least give it decent stagger as bugs right now just rush though the flames to kill you.

Slug can kill a warrior well before it gets into melee range. What you can't do is try to take on a dozen warriors solo. Auto is lackluster due to bad AP. Even with scanned bugs, a slug ranger will dramatically outperform an auto ranger. I initially hoped that wasn't the case, but I mastered the auto, tried it, and then went back to slug for my ranger.

Smg is downright terrible though. Literally no reason to pick that. Probably going to be the last weapon I master if I even bother.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

Originally posted by stanley37861:

i have used up my full load of MK1 ammo on a plasma and still didnt kill it before.

Which is why I suggested buffing the mk1 if the devs won't change the absurd big bug spawns. Pretty much no way a team of mostly mk1s can handle the huge plasmas spawns these days.

E-Pulse 88 personally I think is trash but thats just me. I know many people disagree with me on that. the rest ok yea I feel close enough to how you feel that I am not going talk about.

But it's not as bad as the SMG or flamer! 😅

I'm in the process of leveling the 88 and the 44. Still on the fence about them. The terrible range is quite annoying but they do a lot of damage and ignore armor. They do seem to do more damage to teammates which is a problem when people keep walking in front of me when I'm shooting. I have to regularly heal dart players after they ignore that I'm shooting.

[stanley37861]

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

Originally posted by stanley37861:

i have used up my full load of MK1 ammo on a plasma and still didnt kill it before.

Which is why I suggested buffing the mk1 if the devs won't change the absurd big bug spawns. Pretty much no way a team of mostly mk1s can handle the huge plasmas spawns these days.

E-Pulse 88 personally I think is trash but thats just me. I know many people disagree with me on that. the rest ok yea I feel close enough to how you feel that I am not going talk about.

But it's not as bad as the SMG or flamer! 😅

I'm in the process of leveling the 88 and the 44. Still on the fence about them. The terrible range is quite annoying but they do a lot of damage and ignore armor. They do seem to do more damage to teammates which is a problem when people keep walking in front of me when I'm shooting. I have to regularly heal dart players after they ignore that I'm shooting.

The problem with the flamer is the shotgun does damage and stuns the bugs making it a far better choice for close range. as far as bugs clearing goes. demo can normally handle that when they are not deploying decoys to keep the plasma bugs from taking down the walls. I can kill the bugs faster with the shotgun then I can with the 88. So if I am going to use a weapon with a limited range why not pick the one that is most likely going to keep me alive. SMG just eats thou ammo and almost no DPS. I just thought i was using it wrong. The MK1 is the jack of all ranges and makes for a all around useful weapon but the hawkeye can do more damage and has close and far range bug remove capabilities. The problem is if a bug spawns on you, which happens alot, the MK1 rapid fire ability is more useful then the hawkeye.

Really we can go back and forth about this until the server shut down. The MK1 needs a DPS buff. There are better weapons for close and long range. In the end its all about your personal play style. No one weapon type will work for everyone and thats why we are given options. I just hope that at some point in time they will give us good options but what government has ever done that? Maybe one ran by the military? Who knows.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

Originally posted by stanley37861:

The problem with the flamer is the shotgun does damage and stuns the bugs making it a far better choice for close range.

Oh I agree 100%. The shotguns stun and can actually kill a bug quickly before it runs up and mauls you to death. The flamer isn't a deterrent in that they just take the hits and slice you up. So unless a player is on a structure or hiding behind short walls/ammo crates, they're toast. It's so bad that I don't know why anyone uses it outside of horde. At least in Horde, you start from a static defense position.

If the SMG had very high stun or stagger, it might actually be useful, especially for a ranger jetting around scanning bugs, but the epluse pistol and Emancipator are better. Maybe a decent trade for a peacemaker.

The 88 does offer better range against big bugs than the shotgun, especially for a guardian who can't exactly walk into the field to hunt down an inferno or plasma. I would never give a ranger an 88 when they can scan and use the slug to clear every bug and easily survive the encounter. But a guardian stuck on a wall, not the worst option. But I get why you're not a fan. I'm on the fence about them. The ePulse rifle IMO is a better than the 88, but both have just terrible range.

[Jin [Medic]]

since others talked pretty much well about the other guns, i'll talk about the SMG, haivng using it exclusively on my ranger to try and improve my ranger skills with a bad gun.

Yes, it's a bad gun compared to others, but not *as* bad as you think once you get used to it. It *does* require AP rounds to be somewhat usable though. (which is a hard thing to achieve as that's quite a way down the unlock chain and the gun sucks without it)
The stock SMG has a very low penetration with a very high RoF. My guess is the devs intended it to be a close range weakpoint hitter, which just doesn't work well. Also add the sights actually being off point and the gun shooting higher than where you're aiming when ADS makes it worse.

with AP rounds, it does make it better as it does actually take down warriors with less than a full clip, not to mention with the high RoF, it doesn't take long to unload a full clip, and reloads extremely quickly. Not too bad for jumping around in the chaos scanning things and shooting on the fly, or taking out single warriors on top of other troopers to give them time. Just dont expect to be able to stand in a spot and kill things.
Overall, it's a fun gun to play around with, but harder. Def use the slug shotgun or carbine if you want an easier time.

[Halligan]

I do love the standard Morita Mk1, "Ole' Reliable" its no longer the default weapon for every class though as its unlocked around level 3 with a few classes having their class weapons at level 1 instead.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

Carbine has much better stagger than the mk1,

In my opinion, Stagger and Stun aren't the best crowd control currently. Killing a bug outright is the best. And in the vast majority of cases, killing 1 bug at a time is more efficient for yourself and for the team than stunning or staggering a whole group of them.

The SAW is one of the worst weapons in the game currently, in my opinion, because of this. Sure, it can stun/stagger a large group. But every other weapon in the game can just kill them. And a dead bug isn't getting back up and trying to kill you or your team mates.

That's why I suggest changing the SAW to a high damage weapon, and changing nothing else about it. In the real world, the larger the weapon, the less recoil it has. So if this gigantic SAW has gigantic levels of recoil, it should be firing a monstrous bullet. And again, this opens up a slot for an LMG firing the standard Morita round.

[stanley37861]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

Carbine has much better stagger than the mk1,

In my opinion, Stagger and Stun aren't the best crowd control currently. Killing a bug outright is the best. And in the vast majority of cases, killing 1 bug at a time is more efficient for yourself and for the team than stunning or staggering a whole group of them.

The SAW is one of the worst weapons in the game currently, in my opinion, because of this. Sure, it can stun/stagger a large group. But every other weapon in the game can just kill them. And a dead bug isn't getting back up and trying to kill you or your team mates.

That's why I suggest changing the SAW to a high damage weapon, and changing nothing else about it. In the real world, the larger the weapon, the less recoil it has. So if this gigantic SAW has gigantic levels of recoil, it should be firing a monstrous bullet. And again, this opens up a slot for an LMG firing the standard Morita round.

As far as I can tell the saw fires the same rounds as the MK1. The Idea behind the saw in our time is it has a standard round type that allows supply to only have to send one type of round. So the saw ammo can be broken up and handed out as rifle ammo and rifle ammo can be collected up and used on the saw. Thats what makes the Squad Automatic Weapon different from the Light Machine Gun. Even tho the SAW is a LMG it doesnt fire a larger rounds. If it did then it would have a different name. Like the M60 and M240B. those weapons are not saw because they have a different ammo type then the one the squad uses but are still listed as a LMG. The M2 is a HMG and what I believe is used on the non moving manned weapons. I have fired many weapons that use 7.62 rounds like the MK1 and the Saw(in this game) has. There should be far less recoil on those weapons. Even while firing from the standing many solders have the ability to hold it still while firing.

The game makers are trying to make weapons worst in the future then they are right now. A society that is based around service would be less likely to have weapons that are worst then the past weapons. The main problem with weapons in today's army is they are all picked by officers who have no connection to the troops who will be using them. In Starship troopers noone starts out as a officer instead everyone has to work their way up and so they have a connection to the troops. Thats why in the US army anyone who was enlisted before becoming a officer is capped at major/O4. Because they do not want anyone who might have a connection(walked a mile in their shoes) with the troops they are leading. The reason I bring this up is it makes weapon choices hard to compare to today's weapon choices. Since solders who have held the weapons would make far different choices then officers who's boot have never seen mud making those choices.

To sum it up. The weapons in the game need to be far better then they are.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by stanley37861:

As far as I can tell the saw fires the same rounds as the MK1. The Idea behind the saw in our time is it has a standard round type that allows supply to only have to send one type of round. So the saw ammo can be broken up and handed out as rifle ammo and rifle ammo can be collected up and used on the saw. Thats what makes the Squad Automatic Weapon different from the Light Machine Gun. Even tho the SAW is a LMG it doesnt fire a larger rounds. If it did then it would have a different name. Like the M60 and M240B. those weapons are not saw because they have a different ammo type then the one the squad uses but are still listed as a LMG. The M2 is a HMG and what I believe is used on the non moving manned weapons. I have fired many weapons that use 7.62 rounds like the MK1 and the Saw(in this game) has. There should be far less recoil on those weapons. Even while firing from the standing many solders have the ability to hold it still while firing.

The game makers are trying to make weapons worst in the future then they are right now. A society that is based around service would be less likely to have weapons that are worst then the past weapons. The main problem with weapons in today's army is they are all picked by officers who have no connection to the troops who will be using them. In Starship troopers noone starts out as a officer instead everyone has to work their way up and so they have a connection to the troops. Thats why in the US army anyone who was enlisted before becoming a officer is capped at major/O4. Because they do not want anyone who might have a connection(walked a mile in their shoes) with the troops they are leading. The reason I bring this up is it makes weapon choices hard to compare to today's weapon choices. Since solders who have held the weapons would make far different choices then officers who's boot have never seen mud making those choices.

To sum it up. The weapons in the game need to be far better then they are.

I've long said that players would prefer consistent weapons and their stats, and that it would lead to better gameplay. I.E. At the muzzle, each bullet from the Morita and Morita Carbine should do the same damage.


The SAW in game has about 20% more damage than the Morita. But given its slower ROF, it's basically the same DPS. Add in the ridiculous inaccuracy, and it's just not a good weapon. (*Remember, just because the Guardian's siege ability is good doesn't make the SAW itself good. The Morita and the EPulse get the same benefits during siege, but are still usable outside of it.)

[stanley37861]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

I've long said that players would prefer consistent weapons and their stats, and that it would lead to better gameplay. I.E. At the muzzle, each bullet from the Morita and Morita Carbine should do the same damage.


The SAW in game has about 20% more damage than the Morita. But given its slower ROF, it's basically the same DPS. Add in the ridiculous inaccuracy, and it's just not a good weapon. (*Remember, just because the Guardian's siege ability is good doesn't make the SAW itself good. The Morita and the EPulse get the same benefits during siege, but are still usable outside of it.)

So I watch gun tubers every now and then. I remember a test one of them did where they changed out the rifle barrel. Now it has been a long time since i have seen this video so my info not be 100% correct. By making the barrel just a few inches smaller it decreased the force the round could generate by alot (I think it was 25%)

when i asked google about it here is what i got back

"A 16-inch rifle barrel will generally produce a significantly higher bullet velocity than a 12-inch barrel, meaning the bullet will travel faster from the 16-inch barrel; this is because the longer barrel allows more time for the propellant to burn, imparting more energy to the bullet as it travels through the barrel."

Each bullet from the Morita and Morita Carbine should not do the same damage because of its shorter barrel. All studies I have seen seem to point that way. The saw i think i have beat to death already on why I think the game design for it is just wrong. So lets just leave it as the saw needs a redesign. I think everyone already knows my dislike for the epulse weapons.

[Danneskjold]

Originally posted by stanley37861:

So I watch gun tubers every now and then. I remember a test one of them did where they changed out the rifle barrel. Now it has been a long time since i have seen this video so my info not be 100% correct. By making the barrel just a few inches smaller it decreased the force the round could generate by alot (I think it was 25%)

when i asked google about it here is what i got back

"A 16-inch rifle barrel will generally produce a significantly higher bullet velocity than a 12-inch barrel, meaning the bullet will travel faster from the 16-inch barrel; this is because the longer barrel allows more time for the propellant to burn, imparting more energy to the bullet as it travels through the barrel."

Each bullet from the Morita and Morita Carbine should not do the same damage because of its shorter barrel. All studies I have seen seem to point that way. The saw i think i have beat to death already on why I think the game design for it is just wrong. So lets just leave it as the saw needs a redesign. I think everyone already knows my dislike for the epulse weapons.

That's a valid point, but a special case. The 5.56 was intentionally designed to be fired out of a 20" barrel on an M-16. Newer models cut it down to ~16" barrels. Some even went down to 10". And this caused problems, not so much at the muzzle, but further down range when the bullet is no longer supersonic.

Compare that to the .300 blackout which was designed for an 8-10" barrel. Any more length doesn't really make the bullet go any faster.

Again, we're diving into future, sci-fi calibers. And even then, the Range Damage Drop Factor in game starts at 40-60 meters (*will have to double check this) between the Carbine and Morita.

[stanley37861]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

Again, we're diving into future, sci-fi calibers. And even then, the Range Damage Drop Factor in game starts at 40-60 meters (*will have to double check this) between the Carbine and Morita.

On the back of the MK1 you can see the caliber is 7.62. As far as I know that is a standard round used today. Its a fairly good round used on the AK and the M240B. I am going to guess there would be some heavy drop off with a 10 in barrel AK. There could be some difference in the powder used but I do not know either way about that.

I was wondering about that. the M16 looked alot longer then the the M16A4. I used the 16 inch barrel since that was the size of the M16. Since the round being used is an AK round we would be better off using the AK barrel sizes. I really do not know the standard sizes of the AK weapons.

Yes there was something about after X size the increase in barrel length no longer matters. I think that max length is dependent on how much powder is in the case. I am sure there are people who know far more about weapons that could explain this topic far better then I can.

I do like how when talking about weapons we can use 3 different measuring systems, gauge, mm, and inches and everyone understand it.

[100% Recycled Awesome]

Originally posted by Danneskjold:

Originally posted by 100% Recycled Awesome:

Carbine has much better stagger than the mk1,

In my opinion, Stagger and Stun aren't the best crowd control currently. Killing a bug outright is the best. And in the vast majority of cases, killing 1 bug at a time is more efficient for yourself and for the team than stunning or staggering a whole group of them.

This only works for small groups of bugs though. When you're facing a horde, like in warrior rush, the MK1 can't put down a large number of bugs down before they melee you to death. Stagger and stun work to buy time, which in a big horde, is what is needed to live. Sure you might be able to kill 2-3 warriors, but the other 6 behind them will get you everytime.

The SAW is one of the worst weapons in the game currently, in my opinion, because of this. Sure, it can stun/stagger a large group. But every other weapon in the game can just kill them. And a dead bug isn't getting back up and trying to kill you or your team mates.

Again, you're only looking at it from a dps point of view and aside from the Demo's ability and nuke, there isn't any single weapon that can take out a huge horde on its own. That's where the SAW shines, in slowing enormous numbers of bugs to give the rest of your team time to deal with them before they close to melee range. It's not meant to a field clearer, it's meant to slow the enemy so that everyone else can take a massive horde out before being sliced into kebobs. The SAW is wildly helpful in slowing the mass tigers spawns, letting your teammates get out of the way of telephone pole sized skewers. There's nothing in the game that can take out three tigers in a few seconds. But the SAW can slow tigers down giving more time for everyone to kill them. Remember, this isn't a solo game, but a 16 player coop. I agree it doesn't do lots of damage, but that's not why it exists and as stagger weapon, it does a great job at slowing the hordes. I got no major issues with the SAW and I'll gladly grab it as a sidearm replacement.

That's why I suggest changing the SAW to a high damage weapon, and changing nothing else about it. In the real world, the larger the weapon, the less recoil it has. So if this gigantic SAW has gigantic levels of recoil, it should be firing a monstrous bullet. And again, this opens up a slot for an LMG firing the standard Morita round.

The SAW would be unbalanced if that was the case. Especially since the recoil effectively disappears when a Guardian is deployed and substantially reduced when crouched. It could be buffed for damage, but have a lengthy bi-pod deployment time required to make it accurate. That might be a compromise.