Bastion / SAW feels off

[StuKa]

I think the issue is two-sided, a strange lack of ammo coupled with the long cooldown for the 'fortify' ability. (Can't recall it's actual name atm)

The decision to give the machine gunner role half total ammo of the rifle man just...doesn't make much sense nor does it play well. Add the 30 second cooldown for the ability in and you spend most of your time running to get ammo and then waiting for the rest of the cooldown so you can be useful again.

I know the ammo situation is helped with the perks, and things got much better after my buddy unlocked the ammo station and was able to supply me specifically so that I didn't have to move to resupply, but still the class just feels...overly nerfed?

If for whatever reason you thought the SAW was overperforming then nerf it's stats a little and give it more ammo. The current loop with that weapon is not fun.

A perk to decrease the ability cooldown would be a welcome addition and would help this issue as well.

[Clive Wynne-Candy]

i agree. that ♥♥♥♥ needs to be able to spray

[Hammer Of Evil]

yes. you aren't covering or supporting anything with three magazines. you need a support player to babysit you with ammo stations, which isn't ideal.

[Graf Vigah]

i dont like this class because of that

[Khloros]

TBH i think the saw would be a fine weapon if it was doing a lot more damage.

IMO one of the best ways to figure out a rough idea of balance is total damage output of a weapon, which would be its damage value per his X number of rounds.
The saw when compared to the Mk1 feels super meh, and its not until you get 2 perks, bandoleer and extended mags, does the saw feel like a half decent weapon, as it benefits the most from those perks.

There are a lot of ways to make the saw better, the first and easiest could be give it more damage. Second would be reduce the reload time, which is painfully long, or increase the base magazine size.

The biggest issue i have with the saw is that, its gimmic is that its meant to be a stagger machine, which ok cool, except its takes an insane amount of rounds to kill even a warrior by yourself, when you combine this with the fact you can just use the carbine which ends up being far better because of how versatile it is, the saw just becomes super unappealing.

The kick as well when shooting form the hip, is laughably bad, i get the idea being, hey its a LMG so if you are not crouched, or hunkered down with it, its gonna kick, but my god, the thing jumps around like a pogo stick.

At the end of the day though we dont have all the weapons yet, so its my hope that on full release gunner will get some sort of, high damage slow fireing weapon, because right now the saw feels more like im using a fire hose, it does not kill bugs, it just pushes them.

The only way i have found the saw to be appealing is if you are building all your perks to benifit it, meaning bandoleer and extended mags.

[Hammer Of Evil]

Originally posted by Khloros:

the saw feels more like im using a fire hose, it does not kill bugs, it just pushes them.

and you know what i'd be even ok with just being a knockback machine. if it came with 5000 rounds ffs. =p

you mag dump 3 bugs and you're making a trip back to the damn bunker

[Khloros]

Originally posted by Hammer Of Evil:

Originally posted by Khloros:

the saw feels more like im using a fire hose, it does not kill bugs, it just pushes them.

and you know what i'd be even ok with just being a knockback machine. if it came with 5000 rounds ffs. =p

you mag dump 3 bugs and you're making a trip back to the damn bunker

Exactly and this is my issue with it, if the idea is its meant to be a supproing weapon fine, but giving me the ability to support with it.

[Snu]

thats why you level the class up to get the +50% mag size and the extra mag

[Khloros]

Originally posted by Snu:

thats why you level the class up to get the +50% mag size and the extra mag

Even then its not really worth it.

Consider that in order to make the saw viable as a weapon to support, you have to use 2 perks, bandoleer, and extended mags, and you are only really able to apply your damage and weapon if you are in bastion mode which can only happen every 30 seconds.

VS
Taking a carbine, taking extended mags, and giving you a free utility slot, to take something like synthetic armor.
The saw i think would be more effective if it got more ammo base, a bigger magazine base OR more damage. The cooldown of bastion starts as soon as you enter it, not when you leave it, and while in bastion mode, you get a reload speed bonus as well.

[DLCI]

Originally posted by Khloros:

The kick as well when shooting form the hip, is laughably bad, i get the idea being, hey its a LMG so if you are not crouched, or hunkered down with it, its gonna kick, but my god, the thing jumps around like a pogo stick.

the recoil is not that hard to control if you crouch in ADS

but even then its still only good for stunning/staggering stuff instead of actually killing them

which ends up feeling like a strange and unsatisfying design for a weapon in a shooter game

[Cruddy]

30 seconds is not a long cooldown, that the least of the classes issues. The biggest issue with the SAW is that even when deployed the crosshair is misleading and all shots go around the crosshair although it's an issue shared with the other guns aswell.

[Khloros]

Originally posted by DLCI:

Originally posted by Khloros:

The kick as well when shooting form the hip, is laughably bad, i get the idea being, hey its a LMG so if you are not crouched, or hunkered down with it, its gonna kick, but my god, the thing jumps around like a pogo stick.

the recoil is not that hard to control if you crouch in ADS

but even then its still only good for stunning/staggering stuff instead of actually killing them

which ends up feeling like a strange and unsatisfying design for a weapon in a shooter game

Yeah and thats my issue with it, and why it just feels like such a weird weapon that it does not know what it wants to be.
Is it meant to be a damage dealer? because if no, it needs to do WAY more damage

Is it meant to be a support stagger/sun machine? Needs WAY more ammo and a quicker reload.

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

30 seconds is not a long cooldown, that the least of the classes issues. The biggest issue with the SAW is that even when deployed the crosshair is misleading and all shots go around the crosshair although it's an issue shared with the other guns aswell.

30 seconds is not long you are right, but when for that 30s your primary weapon is virtually useless, its an eternity.

[DLCI]

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

The biggest issue with the SAW is that even when deployed the crosshair is misleading and all shots go around the crosshair although it's an issue shared with the other guns aswell.

keep in mind that most/all the guns in this game are actually very fast projectiles, not hitscan weapons so you gotta lead your shots to hit anything that's moving

[IOUANAME]

Originally posted by Cruddy horse:

30 seconds is not a long cooldown, that the least of the classes issues. The biggest issue with the SAW is that even when deployed the crosshair is misleading and all shots go around the crosshair although it's an issue shared with the other guns aswell.

the reason that cool down is an issue is the ammunition runs out so fast you have to deactivate it while still in cool down run to find ammo come back wait another 10 seconds amid chaos and sporadically fire and fail to hit anything while on the wall and repeat the process as you've most certainly used a clip firing into the horde that by the time the ability comes up you're already half way through your ammunition and the cycle repeats itself I found myself stealing an ammunition silo and sitting on a wall with it beside me so I never have to move to simply make it viable which doesn't help the team but team be damned if I'm going to sit through that stupid cool down to keep the horde off my wall but mind you I set up in the hot zone specifically to make the stagger effect helpful for the big boom sticks everyone else has taken since I joined into the match late :C

[kampfer91]

I think Bastion need the ammo fabricator than Operator . A bastion always sit far away from HQ defending refinery and he is slow to get back to refill his SAW . An early unlock ammo fab will definetely benefit Bastion a lot . May be replace the demolition charge with it ?

[Khloros]

Originally posted by kampfer91:

I think Bastion need the ammo fabricator than Operator . A bastion always sit far away from HQ defending refinery and he is slow to get back to refill his SAW . An early unlock ammo fab will definetely benefit Bastion a lot . May be replace the demolition charge with it ?

I think if anything it should not be a fabricator, it should just be a cool down item, like say, 1 min cool down that refills just HIS ammo and no one else.

If its an ammo fab, people are just going to run up and take it.