Operators got hit too hard, change my mind.

[The Spoon God]

Listen, I'm all for balancing (even when I'm biased to my own playstyle, I can atleast understand them), but removing Faster building AND the hawkeye from the Operator was an incredible mistake.

I understand hunters need to be made viable, but forcing a SUPPORT/MEDIC class to be close range, up in bugs faces, is not the way to do it. A support class needs to stay back, needs to remain ALIVE, so that they can support. Removing the Hawkeye essentially makes it so that only one class (the hunter, now) can reliably and consistently target and kill Gunners. My entire playstyle revolved around the hawkeye, ammo fab, and dual ammo perks to play a support-based sniper class as the Operator.. I can't do that anymore, and it kind of just sucks. The GL isn't enough to make up for this. The Carbine still sucks, and the MK1 .. we don't talk about that.

Operators need the faster build tool as well because, again, support class. Not **medic** specifically, but support. It was kind of their thing to be the builder, I feel like.

I ask that these changes be reviewed and reverted. Let the Operator use the Hawkeye, give Hunter some direct specific buffs so that they can be more viable.

[Sapphiro]

Honestly i think Operators got hit the least from this nerfhammer sexual abuse. And thats coming from Operator main.

[The Spoon God]

Originally posted by Sapphiro:

Honestly i think Operators got hit the least from this nerfhammer sexual abuse. And thats coming from Operator main.

Hard disagree, but keep in mind my playstyle so it might be bias talking.

Removing the hawkeye and the faster build just feels like castrating what a support should have, in my honest opinion.

I also feel nerfing the hawkeye's DAMAGE was a bad idea. Rate of fire, fine. But why not just buff the damage of the other weapons? There needs to be a fine line between balanced damage and straight up tedium.

[MistaM]

No skill, no kill.

[Khloros]

ehhhhh I think the loss of the hawkeye was possibly a bit much, i think they should have made it an unlock at level 20 for them.

[Dr. Rockso]

It wouldn't be as bad if the bugs had weak points but they don't and here we are.

[Atlas is]

The Operator is still arguably the best class for the moment. The grenade launcher is insane plus with the addition of healing to the medical drone they can get even more value out of it.
I don't really understand why they lost the faster building to the Bastion but it's not like it really nerfs the class.
On the other hand the Hunter now got a unique weapon and is more focused on assault as they get all of the ammo perks and utility where before it was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Operator. So balance wise the right move.

That being said I kinda am confused why the Hawkeye is given to the Hunter and the Grenade Launcher to the Operator. Flight is really unprecise at the moment so having the ability to bomb areas from above would be absolutely a buff. And on the other hand the Operator doesn't really synergize well with the GL as it's more, as you said, a backline class focused on staying behind the team.

I also think you can just switch over to Hunter. They have all the perks you mentioned and the flight can give you some utility for sniping.

[The Spoon God]

Originally posted by Maleth:

No skill, no kill.

Ah yes, clearly me pouring like 30 bullets from a carbine into one bug is... just a skill issue. Yes. Very true. Thank you for that nugget of knowledge.

Originally posted by Dr. Rockso:

It wouldn't be as bad if the bugs had weak points but they don't and here we are.

Also agree with this too.

Originally posted by Khloros:

ehhhhh I think the loss of the hawkeye was possibly a bit much, i think they should have made it an unlock at level 20 for them.

What's annoying is that they're trying to funnel the MEDIC/SUPPORT class into a close range situation and that's just not how it works. Supports don't just run up ramboing pointblank, they stay back so they stay alive and support their squad. Do we look like we can just shell up and be immortal like bastions? No. We stay with the bastions and let them take the brunt of the damage. Forcing us to use close range weapons limits us a bit too much.

[The Spoon God]

Originally posted by Atlas is:

The Operator is still arguably the best class for the moment. The grenade launcher is insane plus with the addition of healing to the medical drone they can get even more value out of it.
I don't really understand why they lost the faster building to the Bastion but it's not like it really nerfs the class.
On the other hand the Hunter now got a unique weapon and is more focused on assault as they get all of the ammo perks and utility where before it was just a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ Operator. So balance wise the right move.

That being said I kinda am confused why the Hawkeye is given to the Hunter and the Grenade Launcher to the Operator. Flight is really unprecise at the moment so having the ability to bomb areas from above would be absolutely a buff. And on the other hand the Operator doesn't really synergize well with the GL as it's more, as you said, a backline class focused on staying behind the team.

I also think you can just switch over to Hunter. They have all the perks you mentioned and the flight can give you some utility for sniping.

I know I can switch to a hunter, but I enjoyed being the guy people relied on to rez them (or atleast one of them, as far as my group games go). It's an enjoyable feeling to play a truly SUPPORT based sniper, esp since my bad aim in FPS games doesn't usually let me snipe. I get to be one of the two or three guys (if we have a hunter on our team instead of a 2nd bastion) who helps targets gunners, I can rez and heal people with the UAV, I can place ammo down for me and my mates. It was a fun playstyle. It FELT enjoyable as a support. Now I just have to go GL and hope it does enough damage on Vet to kill a couple of warriors before i run out of ammo, since it can't IK them on vet.

[Sapphiro]

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

Hard disagree, but keep in mind my playstyle so it might be bias talking.

Removing the hawkeye and the faster build just feels like castrating what a support should have, in my honest opinion.

I also feel nerfing the hawkeye's DAMAGE was a bad idea. Rate of fire, fine. But why not just buff the damage of the other weapons? There needs to be a fine line between balanced damage and straight up tedium.

It just shows it depends on point of view. Since i was already playing with my CQC Nade Launcher the only nerf i felt was lack of Extended Mag.
But i understand your point of view. If you play Operative as true support then the changes are much less favorable for you, possibly forcing you to change playstyle. Which is shame, true supports will be sorely missed in the game. Especially since at the same time Hunters ammo fab utility got moved to lvl 18 so most Hunters cant even do quick ammo and sniping support they did.

In my opinion nerfing in such early stage of game is never good option since it shows lack of imagination or dedication from developers. Especially haphazard changes like these. If Operators were considered OP due to their adaptivnes and wide range of builds, much better choice would be introducing new mechanics and variety to other classess so that instead of limiting the playstyles of one operator the would expand the possibilities of others.

[MistaM]

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

Originally posted by Maleth:

No skill, no kill.

Ah yes, clearly me pouring like 30 bullets from a carbine into one bug is... just a skill issue. Yes. Very true. Thank you for that nugget of knowledge.

Never seen the movies, huh? As I wrote, no skill, no kill. Take it easy bro.

[The Spoon God]

Originally posted by Sapphiro:

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

Hard disagree, but keep in mind my playstyle so it might be bias talking.

Removing the hawkeye and the faster build just feels like castrating what a support should have, in my honest opinion.

I also feel nerfing the hawkeye's DAMAGE was a bad idea. Rate of fire, fine. But why not just buff the damage of the other weapons? There needs to be a fine line between balanced damage and straight up tedium.

It just shows it depends on point of view. Since i was already playing with my CQC Nade Launcher the only nerf i felt was lack of Extended Mag.
But i understand your point of view. If you play Operative as true support then the changes are much less favorable for you, possibly forcing you to change playstyle. Which is shame, true supports will be sorely missed in the game. Especially since at the same time Hunters ammo fab utility got moved to lvl 18 so most Hunters cant even do quick ammo and sniping support they did.

In my opinion nerfing in such early stage of game is never good option since it shows lack of imagination or dedication from developers. Especially haphazard changes like these. If Operators were considered OP due to their adaptivnes and wide range of builds, much better choice would be introducing new mechanics and variety to other classess so that instead of limiting the playstyles of one operator the would expand the possibilities of others.

Man, they removed ext mag too? That's gay as fk. I ran dual ammo with ammo fab and sniper to support my squad, now I can't even run faster build. What is this? Synthetic armor I heard was added.. wow, I can take ONE extra hit from a warrior instead of being one tapped. So cool. I agree with you that early stage nerfs is unimaginative as well. I think nerfing in general needs to be approached carefully. I.E, the hawkeye.. just because it was 'op' in comparison to the other guns, doesn't mean that it's OP and requires a nerf. It was just better because the others were worse. That needs to be addressed and I hope they realize this and revert some of the changes.

Originally posted by Maleth:

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

Ah yes, clearly me pouring like 30 bullets from a carbine into one bug is... just a skill issue. Yes. Very true. Thank you for that nugget of knowledge.

Never seen the movies, huh? As I wrote, no skill, no kill. Take it easy bro. :mug:

No, I haven't. Apologies for my hostile reply, it came out of no where and as I have no experience with quotes from the movies the comedy was lost on me.

[<Caeris↝]

I´m also with you about perks.

Power-Up-Build-Tool to remove it from Operator and give it Bastion was a big mistake.
Operator is how said more support class and Bastion a tank class.
A Bastion isn´t here to run all over the base to build/repair the base. He got better things to do, like to defend his team/base.

About Hawkeye.... No, it fits more for the Hunter than Operator.

[MistaM]

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

Originally posted by Sapphiro:

It just shows it depends on point of view. Since i was already playing with my CQC Nade Launcher the only nerf i felt was lack of Extended Mag.
But i understand your point of view. If you play Operative as true support then the changes are much less favorable for you, possibly forcing you to change playstyle. Which is shame, true supports will be sorely missed in the game. Especially since at the same time Hunters ammo fab utility got moved to lvl 18 so most Hunters cant even do quick ammo and sniping support they did.

In my opinion nerfing in such early stage of game is never good option since it shows lack of imagination or dedication from developers. Especially haphazard changes like these. If Operators were considered OP due to their adaptivnes and wide range of builds, much better choice would be introducing new mechanics and variety to other classess so that instead of limiting the playstyles of one operator the would expand the possibilities of others.

Man, they removed ext mag too? That's gay as fk. I ran dual ammo with ammo fab and sniper to support my squad, now I can't even run faster build. What is this? Synthetic armor I heard was added.. wow, I can take ONE extra hit from a warrior instead of being one tapped. So cool. I agree with you that early stage nerfs is unimaginative as well. I think nerfing in general needs to be approached carefully. I.E, the hawkeye.. just because it was 'op' in comparison to the other guns, doesn't mean that it's OP and requires a nerf. It was just better because the others were worse. That needs to be addressed and I hope they realize this and revert some of the changes.

Originally posted by Maleth:

Never seen the movies, huh? As I wrote, no skill, no kill. Take it easy bro.

No, I haven't. Apologies for my hostile reply, it came out of no where and as I have no experience with quotes from the movies the comedy was lost on me.

Bro, you need training then. See how skilled Roughnecks are. INCREDIBLE! All the best for u.

[AI Sin || SinNoAria]

I'm still killing gunners fairly reliably with the grenade launcher. Kind of hard to adjust to the new aiming sights since it is missing a few rungs that we need to hit Grenadiers and Gunners, but you can burn one shot as a rangefinder until you know the distances.

That said, it hurts that they removed extended magazines from Operator, fast repair from operator, etc.

I was personally hoping that they'd EXPAND on the other classes instead of just nerfing Operator.

That said, it does feel like Operators got hit the least.

Bastions lost the scan beacon so while the SAW by itself does more damage now, it does less damage overall due to the 2x damage loss.

Hunter loadout didn't change all that much for me since I'm at max, but the Hawkeye nerf makes special killing builds a lot weaker. If I run plates, I now don't really have enough ammo to kill multiple Grenadiers that are hiding away from the base and bombarding it. Just lost a mission because we had 4 Grenadiers bombarding from where it wasn't easy to hit from the base even for GL Operators (the team didn't really help with the issue either given we had 4/4 gas right away with like 5-7 people). I just didn't have enough ammo with the nerfs. That said, for newer hunters, the nerf hits hard because of how late you get some key items now.

The real problem is that a lot of the weapons were already underpowered. It is canon to the original movie, yes, but I know that weaponry/training improved by the later movies (though they were still relatively weak for the most part).

[Atlas is]

Originally posted by The Spoon God:

I know I can switch to a hunter, but I enjoyed being the guy people relied on to rez them (or atleast one of them, as far as my group games go). It's an enjoyable feeling to play a truly SUPPORT based sniper, esp since my bad aim in FPS games doesn't usually let me snipe. I get to be one of the two or three guys (if we have a hunter on our team instead of a 2nd bastion) who helps targets gunners, I can rez and heal people with the UAV, I can place ammo down for me and my mates. It was a fun playstyle. It FELT enjoyable as a support. Now I just have to go GL and hope it does enough damage on Vet to kill a couple of warriors before i run out of ammo, since it can't IK them on vet.

Isn't that the prime reason why it was removed? Exterminating high priority targets and supporting the team from elevated targets against hard to hit enemies was kinda the point of the Hunter. The fact that the Operator could jump into the same role while also providing a revive was one of the reasons why the Hunter was so obsolote until now.

The Archetype you are describing is still completely playable. It's just now limited to it's prime purpose instead of also being able to fulfill a completely different role.