How does monuments work?

[ThunderNorse]

If I build the pyramids will other civs be able to build the same monument I built?

[Lord Funk]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από ThunderNorse:

If I build the pyramids will other civs be able to build the same monument I built?

I think the player I have seen playing around the most with "monuments" is "Many A True Nerd". You can check out his video and when he hits that age. Hopefully it will answer some of your qestions by watching that. He built both monuments and a "super" monument. I have watched so many videos lately that I can't remember if you could see if any other opponent in his video also built any monuments ion their territories.

Many A True Nerd - Millennia - The Rise & Fall of the Republic of Jon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3GuqY8fl7kI

I do think that if two players chose "Monument Builders" they can both build what that unlocks as you progress in it, but I am not 100% sure. Though I can't see why they shouldn't.

[TehJumpingJawa]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Demo's Infopedia:

Build a Super Monument Foundation to start the process of building a Super Monument. The foundation can be worked by multiple workers to generate Monument Progress. Once you have 100 Monument Progress you can transform the foundation into a Super Monument. There are multiple choices of Super Monuments, but history is a fickle thing; only one of each Super Monument can be made, and once completed other Nations cannot complete that Super Monument. There are also a limited number of Super Monuments that are possible in this Age; if all of the Monuments have been constructed, a simpler, less impressive option is still available to cash out your Monument Progress.

[evolena]

I think the question was more about the Colossus, or Chichen Itza, which are unlocked by Innovation events. No idea if several players can have the same or not, though.

[universecreep]

I think they should consider a different name than "super monument". It seems kinda silly.

Even calling them Wonders is better than that.

[Lord Funk]

I just watched a video which initially made me a bit confused.

Monuments - Only available during The Age Of Monuments - Built on tiles
There are the "monuments" which can only be built in the "Age Of Monuments". That's the ones some of us talked about above which can lead to "Super Monuments". They are however built more like what people would think of when saying "Wonders" and take up tiles within the city/region. Using "tile Improvement points to build (you know the shovels, like other tile improvements). They might be confused for wonders, but are only refered to as "monuments" within the game. So You can only build monuments during that alternative age, if it's triggered. If that age is not triggered, you will not be able to build them during that playthrough.

There are also more than one monument "style" during that age. I think I saw in "Many A True Nerds" video (link in my initial reply further up in this post), that once you complete a monument, you chose what style of monument it should be, like what bonuses it gives. I can't remember if that was just for the "Super Monument" or all "Monuments".

Small Pyramids - Tile Improvements Only if Chose God-King Dynasty - Built on tiles
However we also have "God-King Dynasty" from the "National Spirit" choice, which unlocks being able to build "pyramids", not just one large one, but many small ones, also as tile improvements within your regions/cities areas. I guess some people might refer to them as "wonders" since they are called "pyramids" even if they are not "The Great Pyramid Of Giza" so no "wonders" per se, but more like smaller pyramids which were also built througout history by the Egypitians. Even the Nubians had their own style of more pointy small pyramids. The Mesoamerican cultures also had their style of pyramids of course, like "Chichen Itza" as one example, which is in fact part of the "new" list of 7 wonders of the world.

"New" as in compiled and finalized after international voting in 2000. So "Chichen Itza" is officially considered a "wonder" nowdays. Then there is of course the wonder considered to be the 8th wonder of the world, "Angkor Wat" in Cambodia, but I digress.

Almost Mesoamerican looking small pyramids - Tile improvement Burial Mounds Only if chose Mound Builders
Then there are also the "Mound Builders" pyramid looking tile improvements called "Burial Mounds". No, they are not small pyramids per se, but they almost look like small pyramids on the tiles. They look more like Mesoamerican style pyramids, but they are actually considered more like traditional burial mounds.

Actual real world Wonders like Chichen Itza refered to as (building) built within the city screen - Activated via positive innovation events
Then we have the things "evolena" mentions, like "Colossus", "Colossus Of Rhodes" to be exact, or "Chichen Itza" etc, which I guess most would refer to as "Wonders".

Those are more like infrastructures buildings though within the game, built within the city screen and not visible out on the map. They are even labeled as buildings in the city screen like "Chichen Itza (Building)" and not as a wonder. They seem to only be unlocked via positive "innovation" events and more random if you gain the ability to build them.

It is unclear from the videos I have watched so far if they can only be built once by one player (although that would be logical to assume). If so, it might becomes a bit of a race if two players happen to get the same positive innovation event. Maybe only one player can get an event of the same style during the same playthrough. So one player will get the "Chichen Itza" event and someone else will then get another event like maybe "The Colossus Of Rhodes" etc if they both build up enough innovation points. Of that I have no idea.

Monuments - Wonders - Buildings - Which is what?
In the video the YouTuber called "Praetorian HiJynx" refers to it as "the wonder system". What I initially found confusing is if they are all called "monuments", then which ones are people refering to, or are those actually called "wonders" in Millennia?

So let's assume those last ones are called "wonders" (but are called buildings in the game menu), we still have the "monuments" which can only be built during "The Age Of Monuments" and those "pyramid" "tile improvements" which "God-King Dynasty" can build. If all different things are refered to as "Monuments" then it's even more confusing when people try to talk about "Monuments" or "Wonders", some which can be built many times, by multiple players, then some that are unique and can only be built ones by one player. Some on tiles, others within the city screen.

I know it all might sound a bit confusing, but I actually think I am starting to get a grasp of which is which in Millennia (unless I am getting it totally wrong and I almost got a headache trying to figure out how to exaplain it all), except if to actually refer to things like "Chichen Itza" as a "Wonder" or just a city screen "Building" (that is still very unclear). I would not be surprised if some others find it a bit confusing too (at least to start with). I hope my attempt at trying to explain it all does not confuse even more, but probably over time we will all learn to refer to each thing and know what someone mean when they ask about:

• "Wonders" (which are refered to as buildings in game and do not take up any tiles and are activated via innovation events, or the ability to build one of them can be activated that way)
  vs
  
• "Buildings" (which can also be wonders, if the ability to build one is unlocked, but are called buidlings in the city build menu and do not take up any tiles).
  vs
  
• "Monuments" (which are more like wonders and do take up tiles, but can only be built if the age of monuments is triggered).
  vs
  
• "tile improvements" (like the small pyramids under god-king dynasty and mound builders small almost mesoamerica looking pyramids but are burial mounds).

It will of course also be easier once we get our hands on the game and play around with it.

It's like how people still refered to things like "Districts" when playing Humankind, even if they used to be called "Quarters" and "Extensions" in the game. That was due to people being so used to call them "Districts" in Civ 6. The same with Civs "Unique Units" vs Humankinds "Emblematic Units", or "Civilizations" vs "Cultures" vs "Nations" in various games.

Habits are hard to break and it can lead to confusion when different games refer to more or less the same thing by different names. Sometimes it's better to not try to reinvent the wheel and just have a unified naming system across different games/products/services for very similar things. A "standard" if you like. I understand why game devs do it though. To differentiate their game from another game in the same genre and possibly to more easily avoid being accused of copyright infringement. Of course, for things that are more different in how they work, it is good to have different names.

Link to the video where a YouTuber talks about "The Wonder System" even if they are only refered to as (buildings)
Anyway, here is a link to the video and where he talks about at least what he refers to as "The Wonder System" (although they are only refered to in game as buildings), as well as him mentioning the "Age Of Monuments". He does not even bring up the small pyramids you can build which I mentioned, by the "God-King Dynasty" "National Spirit".

It's 8 min, 44 sec into the video.

https://youtu.be/8KfFcZYNToQ?si=8TY_qa1mfHnVLb3a&t=524

It starts with him getting a positive event from the "innovation" system, which says:
"Innovation: Chichen Itza
A cultural leader has developed grand designs for a large temple complex. A grand temple pyramid to Rome's deities, and many other buildings for commerce and recreation"

If click "Accept" it unlocks the ability to build "Chichen Itza", but you can also chose to just take +600 gold instead.

[evolena]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lord Funk:

Actual real world Wonders like Chichen Itza refered to as (building) built within the city screen - Activated via positive innovation events
[...]

It is unclear from the videos I have watched so far if they can only be built once by one player (although that would be logical to assume). If so, it might becomes a bit of a race if two players happen to get the same positive innovation event. Maybe only one player can get an event of the same style during the same playthrough. So one player will get the "Chichen Itza" event and someone else will then get another event like maybe "The Colossus Of Rhodes" etc if they both build up enough innovation points. Of that I have no idea.

The building do say "1 per Nation", but that does indeed not say if several Nations can have the same event.

[Lord Funk]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από evolena:

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από Lord Funk:

Actual real world Wonders like Chichen Itza refered to as (building) built within the city screen - Activated via positive innovation events
[...]

It is unclear from the videos I have watched so far if they can only be built once by one player (although that would be logical to assume). If so, it might becomes a bit of a race if two players happen to get the same positive innovation event. Maybe only one player can get an event of the same style during the same playthrough. So one player will get the "Chichen Itza" event and someone else will then get another event like maybe "The Colossus Of Rhodes" etc if they both build up enough innovation points. Of that I have no idea.

The building do say "1 per Nation", but that does indeed not say if several Nations can have the same event.

Good catch. Thank you. Yeah, as you say, it is not 100% clear, so we won't know until we have the game available and can play around with it. Still I find as much information as we can dig up valauble to be prepared the day it is released and not make a ton of mistakes at once.

A new hint/tip about Outpost vs Castle
Like one thing I heard in one video today was that you should build an oupost on a tile out in the wild before you build a castle on it. Not a castle directly. Only as long as it's an outpost can you build the necessary tile improvemenst on resources around it to send to your cities. Once it's a castle you can't build those tile improvemenst anymore. However you can then instead build some other buildings (I assume types of defensive improvements on tiles that are empty from resources, but not sure exactly what tile improvements they are).

So first build an outpost. Then improve the tiles you want resoueces to be sent from. Then make it a castle etc.

[Lord Funk]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από evolena:

The building do say "1 per Nation", but that does indeed not say if several Nations can have the same event.

Speaking of finding things out, I did see something else mentioned in one video. That there is no overflow according to that YouTuber. I am not sure about that. For some things it seems to be correct, but when I played with culture and the things you could spend that on, like speed up research, I often held on to what I had and it seemed to me that when I finally spent what it cost, then the next time I could spend again came faster. As if it had stored up as some overflow buffer. I am not 100% sure, but I think it did. It definetluy felt like it. I'm not going into the demo to try that again now though. I will try it again after launch.

However, when it came to research points themselves it did not seem to have an overflow. It's why I often switched my research before walking onto a "goodie hut" in case it rewarded research points, since if a research was almost done it could lead to a waste if I picked that reward, while if having research which had multiple turns to finish meant I could benefit from the whole research points reward for that specific research. Then I switched back to the research I had previously started. A lot of micro-managing and to remember to do that, but it was efficient in researching things faster trough rewards.

[evolena]

I've definitely seen overflow in Culture (like waiting to get the available Power, and then being half in the next one), and in production (which materialize as a big number in the production income of the city, with the breakdown of production sources explicitely listing something like "overflow")

[Lord Funk]

Αναρτήθηκε αρχικά από evolena:

I've definitely seen overflow in Culture (like waiting to get the available Power, and then being half in the next one), and in production (which materialize as a big number in the production income of the city, with the breakdown of production sources explicitely listing something like "overflow")

Yeah, it seems to have oveflow for some things, but not for other things.

Did you see any option to raze a city? Or a vassal for that matter? Either in the demo, or on any YouTube video? I couldn't find any when I played the demo. I haven't seen it in any video either, but I've watched so many now, that maybe I just missed it. I have nodded off a bit during some videos. I usually watch videos casted from PC to TV monitor when I'm about to go to sleep (which can take hours sometimes). lol

[evolena]

You can in the event after you conquer a city: either you vassalize it, either you raze it (and gain some more Wealth and some chaos). Once it's a Vassal, I don't know.

JumboPixel's video at 7:04: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbbQ5vYj-wA