Well, well, well. This IS easily the BEST 4X game I've ever played

[The Doctor]

And it's just out of the gate too...

Yes, I know it's not balanced.
Yes, I know there's no synchronous multiplayer.
Yes, I know there are things that need to be improved. I know that that battle viewer looks crap but my, oh my, even with all the above, this is an even better game than full Civ 6 is even at this point. You might disagree with that and all of that is true of Civ6 (apart from the battle viewer and the multiplayer of course) but let me explain.

Well, what about religion, you might object? Well, I'm not claiming that every system in Millennia is better than any that are found in Civ but rather mean that, taken together, this scores more highly overall than Civ.

As I advance to each new era and see the incredible scope this game has, I am even more impressed. New features , improvements and systems keep emerging and your cities needs become more and more sophisticated. This game has launched with more systems than pretty much any 4X game or even PDS Grand Strategy game has.

I have to say that the demo did this game a great disservice. The first three eras are pretty basic as far as the gameplay goes and of course, nobody is going to see or experience what this game really has in it later. And the artwork and the improvements all approach Civ 6 levels as you go on. It's a good-looking game.

I am just going to clap my hands and say that this is now officially the best 4X game I've ever played.

[PengoPaddy]

Its really good, despite some obvious flaws. Its mechanics are better than Civ's. I have no interest in eventual Civ 7 (despite playing every since the original) and had no interest in this until I tried the demo on a whim. Fantastic innovative 4x

[Aluminum Elite Master]

Maybe it's just me, but I got 20 minutes in and refunded. It's a disaster of a game IMO:

The number of settings is ridiculously low for a 4X. There's hardly any map customization... all you have for nation builder are the original presets of the other nations (no generic symbols, even)... even some basic game settings are totally gone, like the ability to choose to enable edge scrolling. I discovered all of this in about the first 5 minutes.

UI is too simple and generic. All the lists are the same sickly-yellow font on a beige background. No color coding, like green names for armies, blue for navies. Those lists are atrocious, and to cap it off, font sizes are a bit small and don't appear highly customizable (again, not a lot of customization). And the backgrounds and borders of panes that pop up are just a plain color with no decor. By the time I got to the 1990's-esque battleviewer, just another 10 minutes had elapsed and I got to see a battle that looked like it was done on the oldest version of Flash software.

Then there's the woeful immersion. No voiced narrator, not even as an option. Even HK had that (though it was a bit buggy and repetitive). I finally met my first real opponent and got two brief sentences, no leader screen, no unique music cue, no introductory diplo options. While at the time I thought HK's immersion was bottom of the barrel, I now stand corrected, as Millennia is even worse. And by this point, it was about 20 minutes in when I met my first opponent and was underwhelmed with the non-introduction to them that I got. So it was off to get a refund.

I'll be honest and say that maybe the game has some really neat systems later on. It might also have cool units and tough decisions to make as the game progresses. But I never got that far because the most basic things looked threadbare beyond my lowest expectations coming in.

Again, totally willing to acknowledge that 20 minutes isn't enough to render a complete verdict on the game. But it was enough to say that it's got so many obvious problems that it's hard to justify owning it when I can go back and play Civ, Old World, HK, and even Civ 4 Col (yes, even *that* Civ seems better than this).

[low_apm]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Ärlig, Paradoxriddaren:

To be honest I like religion more here for one simple reason: There aren't a billion missionaries moving across the map every turn.

I must say, I've never seen the good Doctor this vocally glowing about a game, even games he likes. But I'm feeling the same. I have more fun with Millennia than any 4X I've played.

thats so annoying in civ 6. feels satisfying when you research nukes and literally nuke them though

[mqpiffle]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aluminum Elite Master:

Maybe it's just me,

There's no maybe about it. But enjoy Humankind, I guess?

[The Doctor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aluminum Elite Master:

Maybe it's just me, but I got 20 minutes in and refunded. It's a disaster of a game IMO:

The number of settings is ridiculously low for a 4X. There's hardly any map customization... all you have for nation builder are the original presets of the other nations (no generic symbols, even)... even some basic game settings are totally gone, like the ability to choose to enable edge scrolling. I discovered all of this in about the first 5 minutes.

UI is too simple and generic. All the lists are the same sickly-yellow font on a beige background. No color coding, like green names for armies, blue for navies. Those lists are atrocious, and to cap it off, font sizes are a bit small and don't appear highly customizable (again, not a lot of customization). And the backgrounds and borders of panes that pop up are just a plain color with no decor. By the time I got to the 1990's-esque battleviewer, just another 10 minutes had elapsed and I got to see a battle that looked like it was done on the oldest version of Flash software.

Then there's the woeful immersion. No voiced narrator, not even as an option. Even HK had that (though it was a bit buggy and repetitive). I finally met my first real opponent and got two brief sentences, no leader screen, no unique music cue, no introductory diplo options. While at the time I thought HK's immersion was bottom of the barrel, I now stand corrected, as Millennia is even worse. And by this point, it was about 20 minutes in when I met my first opponent and was underwhelmed with the non-introduction to them that I got. So it was off to get a refund.

I'll be honest and say that maybe the game has some really neat systems later on. It might also have cool units and tough decisions to make as the game progresses. But I never got that far because the most basic things looked threadbare beyond my lowest expectations coming in.

Again, totally willing to acknowledge that 20 minutes isn't enough to render a complete verdict on the game. But it was enough to say that it's got so many obvious problems that it's hard to justify owning it when I can go back and play Civ, Old World, HK, and even Civ 4 Col (yes, even *that* Civ seems better than this).

I don't think 20 minutes is nearly enough time to determine whether a 4X game is really good apart from how flashy it is. This is definitely NOT a flashy game at all and if looks and visual polish are what matter in a 4X game, well, leave this one alone ESPECIALLY if you don't like the battle viewer. The development 'polish' has gone into the game systems instead.

There are no leaders in the game for you to meet. This is all 'in your head' when you're playing. It's easy enough to imagine them when you're playing and none is better than a half-assed one which folks would just moan about because they are 'not as good as Civ's or Humankind's'.

This is a replacement for Civ and Humankind for me although I'll wait to see what Civ 7 brings because let's face it, anyone who really loved this particular kind of 4X game is going to be interested for good or for bad. I doubt it will be for Civ/Humankind fans though because the focus will be on what these games do better rather than the entirety of what this game offers. It's a huge game and more systems get added as you advance. There's even some depth to them - for example, the space race is more nuanced than you might expect.

And to some other posters in general:
Yes, I LIKE this game a lot and think it's the best 4X game I've played. That's real. Get over it. Now give me some more clown points because I always enjoy taking poiints from immature people - I can put them to far better use than you can and who knows, perhaps some thin-skinned poster who will lose sleep over getting then will benefit.

[PengoPaddy]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aluminum Elite Master:

Maybe it's just me, but I got 20 minutes in and refunded. It's a disaster of a game IMO:

....

I'll be honest and say that maybe the game has some really neat systems later on. It might also have cool units and tough decisions to make as the game progresses. But I never got that far because the most basic things looked threadbare beyond my lowest expectations coming in.

"Some really neat systems later on...". You said you played for 20 minutes, what are you talking about? You probably spent more time on the Steam forums for this game than playing it. Why are you still here?

[Zatio]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Doctor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Aluminum Elite Master:

Maybe it's just me, but I got 20 minutes in and refunded. It's a disaster of a game IMO:

The number of settings is ridiculously low for a 4X. There's hardly any map customization... all you have for nation builder are the original presets of the other nations (no generic symbols, even)... even some basic game settings are totally gone, like the ability to choose to enable edge scrolling. I discovered all of this in about the first 5 minutes.

UI is too simple and generic. All the lists are the same sickly-yellow font on a beige background. No color coding, like green names for armies, blue for navies. Those lists are atrocious, and to cap it off, font sizes are a bit small and don't appear highly customizable (again, not a lot of customization). And the backgrounds and borders of panes that pop up are just a plain color with no decor. By the time I got to the 1990's-esque battleviewer, just another 10 minutes had elapsed and I got to see a battle that looked like it was done on the oldest version of Flash software.

Then there's the woeful immersion. No voiced narrator, not even as an option. Even HK had that (though it was a bit buggy and repetitive). I finally met my first real opponent and got two brief sentences, no leader screen, no unique music cue, no introductory diplo options. While at the time I thought HK's immersion was bottom of the barrel, I now stand corrected, as Millennia is even worse. And by this point, it was about 20 minutes in when I met my first opponent and was underwhelmed with the non-introduction to them that I got. So it was off to get a refund.

I'll be honest and say that maybe the game has some really neat systems later on. It might also have cool units and tough decisions to make as the game progresses. But I never got that far because the most basic things looked threadbare beyond my lowest expectations coming in.

Again, totally willing to acknowledge that 20 minutes isn't enough to render a complete verdict on the game. But it was enough to say that it's got so many obvious problems that it's hard to justify owning it when I can go back and play Civ, Old World, HK, and even Civ 4 Col (yes, even *that* Civ seems better than this).

I don't think 20 minutes is nearly enough time to determine whether a 4X game is really good apart from how flashy it is. This is definitely NOT a flashy game at all and if looks and visual polish are what matter in a 4X game, well, leave this one alone ESPECIALLY if you don't like the battle viewer. The development 'polish' has gone into the game systems instead.

There are no leaders in the game for you to meet. This is all 'in your head' when you're playing. It's easy enough to imagine them when you're playing and none is better than a half-assed one which folks would just moan about because they are 'not as good as Civ's or Humankind's'.

This is a replacement for Civ and Humankind for me although I'll wait to see what Civ 7 brings because let's face it, anyone who really loved this particular kind of 4X game is going to be interested for good or for bad. I doubt it will be for Civ/Humankind fans though because the focus will be on what these games do better rather than the entirety of what this game offers. It's a huge game and more systems get added as you advance. There's even some depth to them - for example, the space race is more nuanced than you might expect.

And to some other posters in general:
Yes, I LIKE this game a lot and think it's the best 4X game I've played. That's real. Get over it. Now give me some more clown points because I always enjoy taking poiints from immature people - I can put them to far better use than you can and who knows, perhaps some thin-skinned poster who will lose sleep over getting then will benefit.

The game is not bad sure but its not good either, are we playing the same game? If you get a unlucky start then you must restart on a new map. Nations are just names with a couple buffs, its nice that you can choose the buff but thats all you get with the nations.
There is no diplomacy or trading, sure you can send a merchant to an ai city and get gold if the merchant can even get to the city as the ai blocks their movement with their units.
Basic diplomacy is a thing sure but it does not go beyond you are to close we want you dead, you are to weak we want your land and you are strong ally with me. This game is clearly unfinished, if the ai blocking your merchants is not enough then how about barbarian neutrality that does not properly work? If a neutral barbarian enter your territory they wont sack the tiles they step on sure but it will stop them from working and if that unit get close to the city the tower wants you to shoot the hostile unit next to the city despite its neutrality.

This is simply not the best 4X game out there, but its not bad, maybe one day it will get good but it depends on patches and dlc.

[The Doctor]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zatio:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Doctor:

I don't think 20 minutes is nearly enough time to determine whether a 4X game is really good apart from how flashy it is. This is definitely NOT a flashy game at all and if looks and visual polish are what matter in a 4X game, well, leave this one alone ESPECIALLY if you don't like the battle viewer. The development 'polish' has gone into the game systems instead.

There are no leaders in the game for you to meet. This is all 'in your head' when you're playing. It's easy enough to imagine them when you're playing and none is better than a half-assed one which folks would just moan about because they are 'not as good as Civ's or Humankind's'.

This is a replacement for Civ and Humankind for me although I'll wait to see what Civ 7 brings because let's face it, anyone who really loved this particular kind of 4X game is going to be interested for good or for bad. I doubt it will be for Civ/Humankind fans though because the focus will be on what these games do better rather than the entirety of what this game offers. It's a huge game and more systems get added as you advance. There's even some depth to them - for example, the space race is more nuanced than you might expect.

And to some other posters in general:
Yes, I LIKE this game a lot and think it's the best 4X game I've played. That's real. Get over it. Now give me some more clown points because I always enjoy taking poiints from immature people - I can put them to far better use than you can and who knows, perhaps some thin-skinned poster who will lose sleep over getting then will benefit.

The game is not bad sure but its not good either, are we playing the same game? If you get a unlucky start then you must restart on a new map. Nations are just names with a couple buffs, its nice that you can choose the buff but thats all you get with the nations.
There is no diplomacy or trading, sure you can send a merchant to an ai city and get gold if the merchant can even get to the city as the ai blocks their movement with their units.
Basic diplomacy is a thing sure but it does not go beyond you are to close we want you dead, you are to weak we want your land and you are strong ally with me. This game is clearly unfinished, if the ai blocking your merchants is not enough then how about barbarian neutrality that does not properly work? If a neutral barbarian enter your territory they wont sack the tiles they step on sure but it will stop them from working and if that unit get close to the city the tower wants you to shoot the hostile unit next to the city despite its neutrality.

This is simply not the best 4X game out there, but its not bad, maybe one day it will get good but it depends on patches and dlc.

I can't believe it is necessary to say this but this is MY OPINION and not a statement of objective fact. I honestly DO think this game is the best 4X game I've ever played. If you think it isn't, that's YOUR opinion and that's fine by me. I'm not going to change my mind because you disagree. That's not how I roll.

Again, the Captain Obvious hat goes on to state that I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is better - I'm just expressing my opinion.

I sai in the OP that I have formed my judgement of this game on the entire body of systems that are in place and said that while Civ might do religion in more detail, it's the aggregate that matters. Overall, this is the best 4X game I've ever played. That doesn't mean the best looking either - it's far better looking than Shadow Empire, that's for sure and that's the only other possible contender for the title but unlike SE, this game is not overly complex.

Sorry, I'm a tad hungry and am waiting for food to arrive. :D

[vivas]

Well said Doc, can't put it better.

[mitrida]

yeah agree with more features and qol could be a classic

[Boldee]

I can't believe it is necessary to say this but this is MY OPINION and not a statement of objective fact. I honestly DO think this game is the best 4X game I've ever played. If you think it isn't, that's YOUR opinion and that's fine by me. I'm not going to change my mind because you disagree. That's not how I roll.

The problem these days Doc is there is only one opinion allowed and you are not allowed to detract from it, I'm with you on this one.

I will give an opinion of my own here which I may get it in the neck for too but who cares, I enjoyed Old Word to a point but it didn't keep me coming back for more, Humankind was a big disappointment for me, I tried Imperiums: Greek Wars but although having depth is very clunky and un-intuitive, there are others but Millennia has me wanting to play it's even stopped me playing BG3 for the moment lol.

I'm looking forward to seeing how Millennia shapes up.

[Stealthkibbler]

I do think it is great in a lot of its own ways but they have a few hills to climb before many of the major issues are out of the way. The late-game is definitely more exciting than Humankind where you are actively replacing old industry, fielding better units but not having the constant anxiety of wondering if you should commit to a war or wait to upgrade, upgrades are far enough apart thanks to the unit class system where in humankind going from Arquebuses > Musketeer > Rifleman was such a huge technological leap.

Whereas in Millennia Arquebuses, Musketeers and Riflemen are seperate unit classes so you can end up in a situation where you have progressed to using machineguns but musketeers are still useful if the opponent is fielding a lot of the unit type that they counter, I think the major game changer is when tanks start coming out.

I also really appreciate that special units can scale very hard well beyond their unlocked ages so investing in say for example knights of the order means you are going to be able to ruthlessly crush a lot of opposition with their holy buffs.

[Zatio]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von The Doctor:

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Zatio:

The game is not bad sure but its not good either, are we playing the same game? If you get a unlucky start then you must restart on a new map. Nations are just names with a couple buffs, its nice that you can choose the buff but thats all you get with the nations.
There is no diplomacy or trading, sure you can send a merchant to an ai city and get gold if the merchant can even get to the city as the ai blocks their movement with their units.
Basic diplomacy is a thing sure but it does not go beyond you are to close we want you dead, you are to weak we want your land and you are strong ally with me. This game is clearly unfinished, if the ai blocking your merchants is not enough then how about barbarian neutrality that does not properly work? If a neutral barbarian enter your territory they wont sack the tiles they step on sure but it will stop them from working and if that unit get close to the city the tower wants you to shoot the hostile unit next to the city despite its neutrality.

This is simply not the best 4X game out there, but its not bad, maybe one day it will get good but it depends on patches and dlc.

I can't believe it is necessary to say this but this is MY OPINION and not a statement of objective fact. I honestly DO think this game is the best 4X game I've ever played. If you think it isn't, that's YOUR opinion and that's fine by me. I'm not going to change my mind because you disagree. That's not how I roll.

Again, the Captain Obvious hat goes on to state that I'm not trying to convince anyone that it is better - I'm just expressing my opinion.

I sai in the OP that I have formed my judgement of this game on the entire body of systems that are in place and said that while Civ might do religion in more detail, it's the aggregate that matters. Overall, this is the best 4X game I've ever played. That doesn't mean the best looking either - it's far better looking than Shadow Empire, that's for sure and that's the only other possible contender for the title but unlike SE, this game is not overly complex.

Sorry, I'm a tad hungry and am waiting for food to arrive. :D

That is fine but when you state an opinion there will always be people that agree and people that disagree. I too like the game, i just hope the devs will get their heads out of their asses and fix the game soon and not later. I have allot of games so i tend to judge games pretty harshly based on other games i have played. Humankind was a great game during the first era and then they ruined the game by generalizing the rest of the game instead of letting the player develop their human race it became a race to pick the race you wanted. Its another game that was alright but neither good or bad but atleast that game worked properly.

I hope they fix the game soon. I liked the town system allot and hope they do more with that some day. The vasal system also needs allot of work.

[Aluminum Elite Master]

And I'm still here because I, too, am hoping they might consider some quick changes.

The immersion-side of things is always going to be too little for me in this, I think.

But if they were to fix/finish/add some stuff elsewhere, I might be enticed to give it another chance. If they were to, say,

add edge-scrolling
greatly improve UI
add actual custom game options
add generic stuff to nation builder
remove battleviewer

then, with all that changed, I could still be persuaded. Right now, all of that was stuff that, yes, I discovered in just 20 minutes of play and decided to refund for.

Again, I can be persuaded here with some relatively quick patching. That's where HK dropped the ball and dropped it hard... I kept waiting for balance patches that never came and that left that game ridiculously imbalanced in some places. If Millennia were to promptly address some basic needs, that would show me it will be improved enough to come back.

[Boldee]

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Qoojo:

The Doctor can be proud in knowing that this thread and perusing the forums/twitch has me hooked. I only buy games on sale, so if the premium version hits 25% off, I will get it.

It's £25 on CDKeys.com,

My only gripe is the price but this game isn't alone there many games are over priced.