Suggestions for the Game [potentially long rant]

[low_apm]

Having played through a game, I can see a lot of potential, and the resource mechanic is good fun, I like the vassal system, the different ages are good fun, the innovation/chaos mechanic is interesting and I like it.

However, the game has some features that could use some polish:

1: Forced Obsolescence of Improvements

The game shouldn't take away improvements that are now "obsolete". Discovering electricity means that suddenly, you can't build plantations, farms etc. which is absurd. Just because electricity was discovered, it didn't mean that everyone nationwide stopped farming by hand right away! So e.g. just because "Automata Farm" was discovered, I should be still able to build older "Plowed Farm" improvements. In the current way, discovering automata farms means any regions that grow basically can't build improvements to gather food from tiles ...

This is especially a problem because the rate at which the "Specialists" resource trickles in is painfully slow. It would have been 100% impossible to electrify all of my regions by the end of the game. This brings me to...

2: Specialists resource:

This should just be tied to some math formula based on the number of tiles controlled + number of pops + number of towns in a region. The current way simply trickles this resource in far too slowly for it to have any useful or meaningful impact.

3: Cities/Regions

Conquered cities need to have an option to be razed at a (significant) chaos penalty. It should likewise be allowed to simply abandon your own cities at a chaos penalty also. The latter is e.g. to be able to resolve complaints from AI about settling too close. Right now there is literally NO way to resolve being too close to an AI and getting a permanent diplomacy debuff and useless cycles of war. This brings me to...

EDIT: if enemy cities can be razed, and own cities abandoned and population resettled, it should be ensured that the costs of spawning settlers decreases for the player whose city was removed

4: The Age System

Time ticks too fast in the game. I'm fairly certain that when the Age system was calculated, it was calculated without having to invest anything into the military what so ever. However, due to the fact that the AI forward settles you, you'll get hordes of units spammed from the AI to fight you, because it hates you for being so close to itself.

Because of time ticking too fast, none of the eras match with what you'd expect. Hoplites were the most powerful land units in 1500 AD. Catapult Biremes were the most powerful of ANYTHING on the map in 1945! I was way ahead of the AI in terms of tech output, and I barely reached the Age of Aether (Age 7) into the 1940's. I genuinely doubt that it's even possible to reach Age 10, given that the game ends in 2080.

5: The Map Generation

The map generation needs to generate more and bigger landmasses. Coupled with the AI's obsession to spam cities and outposts everywhere, there really isn't enough space to discover the game's resource chains. In my whole empire, on a Huge map, only the capital region had enough space to go for anything beyond stonecutters and basic mills.

Islands consisting of less than 8 tiles shouldn't be allowed. Any neutral city that spawns on it is useless because even if you capture it, you won't get any use out of it by the later stages of the game due to how important tile improvements are. Capturing a neutral city to raze isn't worth the chaos penalty in any case, the rewards are just bad. This reminds me of...

6: Island cities

These are impossible to siege until Catapult Biremes, because Stone Towers are simply OP against land armies and if you have only 1-2 tiles to invade from, there's absolutely no way to capture an Island city until you get Biremes. This can make some starting positions in the game unviable and force a very annoying restart when you've already invested a fair bit of time. Being a region down early in the game is too big of a disadvantage.

[The Former]

1. Agree.

2. No comment, haven't yet seen.

3. Eh... I find I disagree because of what's outside the city. (The region.) I don't like the idea of a bunch of towns and mines and such that've been a big part of the world's identity suddenly disappearing because I don't like where a town is placed. I do like that you suggest a significant Chaos penalty, but I'm still very on the "keep it" side of the fence here. I'm not opposed to measures against city-hemming, but I don't think this is the best answer.

4. I felt this way at first but I think I see why the early ages go quick and I'm not as against the fact as I was. That being said, an option to slow it down would be welcome.

5. Can't comment just yet as I'm still pretty constrained in my game.

6. That actually sounds very good, to be honest. Well-fortified islands should absolutely require something like catapult biremes to bring down, in my opinion. Naval invasions are traditionally difficult anyway, and if the city's fortified, that difficulty will only intensify. I quite like this as a use for catapult biremes (which can come relatively early in the game).

[low_apm]

3. Some way needs to address the problem about the diplomacy debuff form settling too close to each other. The only way to "Solve" it now is just to defeat the AI. Otherwise you will get a constant spam of wars and armies.

6. Maybe, but if the neutral town that you're supposed to capture is on an island, you have to restart the game, because Catapult Bireme is quite far down the line. If another player's neutral town spawns on a normal inland location, they'll be up a region against you (which is a big disadvantage).

[The Former]

Originally posted by low_apm:

3. Some way needs to address the problem about the diplomacy debuff form settling too close to each other. The only way to "Solve" it now is just to defeat the AI. Otherwise you will get a constant spam of wars and armies.

6. Maybe, but if the neutral town that you're supposed to capture is on an island, you have to restart the game, because Catapult Bireme is quite far down the line. If another player's neutral town spawns on a normal inland location, they'll be up a region against you (which is a big disadvantage).

On that I agree RE: 3. If they chose to settle near you, it's their own fault, they shouldn't get miffed at you over it.

6... Yeah that's possibly so. Hmm, I wonder if a change to one of the early National Spirit trees could help here...? Maybe a buff to combat strength during naval invasions, or a defense boost against towers.

[Limz]

You should make a city or two a specialist city.

[low_apm]

6. Maybe just change the map generation to not allow neutral island cities. Make sure there's at least 3 neighbouring tiles in any case, with some tiles to retreat to. That'll ensure that players aren't going to be down a region just due to map gen.

Originally posted by Limz:

You should make a city or two a specialist city.

There is absolutely no space for this due to how the AI works and how the map gen makes areas way too small.

[Helamenophis]

1: Forced Obsolescence of Improvements

Completely agree on that, I had some improvement available and realised the improvement was worse than the "old" building. Very specific case but still a problem.
Also I would like, in the other way around, to be able to improve my unique units in later eras. Because having archers fighting tanks is fun and all but not very efficient. Even if my crusaders were beating the crap out of the same tanks...strong swords these lads have.


2: Specialists resource:

I honestly didn't have any issue on that ressource, system seem fine to me as it is.

3: Cities/Regions

Totally agree on that, the AI will just spam useless cities everywhere, and as said before, it can mess the game as you would be able to cheese an enemy by spamming cities at awefull spots and nothing could be done against that.

Also, there shouldn't be a limit on how much cities you can include in your territories (not vassals). Because at some point the cost to integrate is over 400, meanning it's not possible to integrate anything else.

4: The Age System

I don't agree on that, maybe it depend on the difficulty played, I don't know, but by 1800 I went into space and by 1850 I finnished the game. it feels to me that time passes way too slowly by the "end" years. But maybe it's because by that point I had conquered an entire continent.

5: The Map Generation

I think there should be more choices on the map generation, I don't mind the small island, aside that they are barbarian nests, but they end up being useful for outposts and avanced platforms for airplanes and such. Yet, there are very little room for variations on the maps.

6: Island cities

Siege ships are way too overpowered, you can take down cities defences easily with a strong fleet.


Overall I think some things should be balanced:
-Siege ships should be nerfed as they make any other ships useless
-cavalry/knights should also be nerfed, as they can beat pikemen/halbadiers, wich are supposed to be their counter. I didn't try every era mobile units so I don't know about the rest.
-chaos should be more impactful in later eras, because frankly, I had so much money in the mid/late game that I could just ignore it entirely(It would cost me about 2 turns revenue to ignore a chaos event in the mid game, not even one turn revenue in the late)
Another way to deal with that could be to have chaos event costing random ressources, not always money, making it more...chaotic...and not just a button to click once in a while.
-AI should be...changed completely, I think it's one of the worse AI I've seen in a game for a long time. It plays bad (even with all the cheating) it is always focused on conquests (it's fine to have an agressive ai, but in this game it feels like it's constant war all game long everywhere in the world).

Overall I see it like the game is in a Beta version, it is an interesting take on the 4x genre but it still feels incomplete. Some aspects of the game have a lot of details and possibilities (Eras for exemple), while others feel barely touched (variety of ressources, units, etc..)

[low_apm]

4: sounds like you had a luckier map gen.

I abandoned most of my games (couldnt be bothered to grind out the sieges of the remaining AI cities), but even in situations where I was far ahead of the AI, I was hundreds of years behind the "real life" timeline.

2: might depend on empire size. Using all the tricks in the game, you can have 8 regions. If you have that many, there is absolutely no way you are generating enough specialists to upgrade a meaningful amount of stuff.

[lusciouslanguidity]

1: I can see the benefit of having the old improvements avail, but tbh I could see how including the obsolete improvements just creates option/design/interface bloat, so I can see why that was not included. And to be clear to anyone new to the game who is reading, the obsolescence isn't for all improvements... it's just for directly upgraded improvements.

2: not sure I agree with the design suggestion or how you view its impact... while i agree it does come in a bit slowly, that's probably intentional...

4: I think that was just your game. I did not have the same experience. Also a lot of people reached age 10, as seen in steam achievements. (Not directly related, but I would also like a faster game mode)

5: There should more map types in general, rather than just 4. But that's a common feedback already. Some of the issues you faced are also due to # of enemies you have in your game; I think the default of 8 enemies on a medium map is bonkers.

6: How often are you starting in islands unless you are on an island map?

[low_apm]

Originally posted by lusciouslanguidity:

1: I can see the benefit of having the old improvements avail, but tbh I could see how including the obsolete improvements just creates option/design/interface bloat, so I can see why that was not included. And to be clear to anyone new to the game who is reading, the obsolescence isn't for all improvements... it's just for directly upgraded improvements.

2: not sure I agree with the design suggestion or how you view its impact... while i agree it does come in a bit slowly, that's probably intentional...

4: I think that was just your game. I did not have the same experience. Also a lot of people reached age 10, as seen in steam achievements. (Not directly related, but I would also like a faster game mode)

5: There should more map types in general, rather than just 4. But that's a common feedback already. Some of the issues you faced are also due to # of enemies you have in your game; I think the default of 8 enemies on a medium map is bonkers.

6: How often are you starting in islands unless you are on an island map?

1: they can figure out some UI design, its really not a big ask, and would make the transitioning to that age a lot less awkward than now

2: then just better remove it entirely and make everything cost improvement points, because it is not worth investing into in its current form, you are literally better off spamming army at this point

4: yeah you can reach age 10 if you start cheesing the game like hard, but at that point theres hardly any fun

5: yeah the maps dont really feel big enough for what this game wants you to do with its resource chains

[lusciouslanguidity]

I take back my comment about #1.

I have a game where it's not just directly upgraded improvements that got replaced. An improvement got replaced that required a different resource than the new one. Also I noticed furnaces get changed into producing something else which also toys with production chain planning a bit. I think they'll need to think about it more about what gets replaced and what doesn't.

[low_apm]

Originally posted by lusciouslanguidity:

I take back my comment about #1.

I have a game where it's not just directly upgraded improvements that got replaced. An improvement got replaced that required a different resource than the new one. Also I noticed furnaces get changed into producing something else which also toys with production chain planning a bit. I think they'll need to think about it more about what gets replaced and what doesn't.

You also get this problem with buildings inside cities. Smaller cities will suddenly take 20-30 turns to build anything at all :/

[w.f.schepel]

Originally posted by low_apm:

Originally posted by lusciouslanguidity:

I take back my comment about #1.

I have a game where it's not just directly upgraded improvements that got replaced. An improvement got replaced that required a different resource than the new one. Also I noticed furnaces get changed into producing something else which also toys with production chain planning a bit. I think they'll need to think about it more about what gets replaced and what doesn't.

You also get this problem with buildings inside cities. Smaller cities will suddenly take 20-30 turns to build anything at all :/

Which is easily dealt with through upgrading the production.

I do agree with point 1, though. It punishes the acquisition of new tech at times.

[low_apm]

Originally posted by w.f.schepel:

Originally posted by low_apm:

You also get this problem with buildings inside cities. Smaller cities will suddenly take 20-30 turns to build anything at all :/

Which is easily dealt with through upgrading the production.

Which takes 30 turns also. On a 500 turn game, that's quite a lot. I think it would be good to review how the city buildings work, because to get a new city actually do anything past age 5, it takes a quarter of the game to get it set up.

[Ricochet]

The only consistent type of resource to the end game is forester then lumber camp lmao.

[Riftwalker]

Originally posted by low_apm:

Originally posted by w.f.schepel:

Which is easily dealt with through upgrading the production.

Which takes 30 turns also. On a 500 turn game, that's quite a lot. I think it would be good to review how the city buildings work, because to get a new city actually do anything past age 5, it takes a quarter of the game to get it set up.

You should focus on domestically importing tools etc into the city until it's functioning.