Concerning tech and era advancement

[alexleshok]

There has been a request already, but I'm starting this topic to gather suggestions how to better implement it. My thoughts:
1. Bring EU and CK mechanics "Ahead of time". So there's a chaos (and maybe additional tech cost) penalty if someone enters the next era without researching remaining techs of the following era. Double this penalty for unresearched techs of the previous era (triple for...). Penalties should scale down upon researching current-previous era techs.
2. Make tech prerequisites - so no tanks without cuirassiers, no advanced resource extractor without the basic one.
3. Consider raising tech prerequisites for the next era advancement up from 3 to 4 and from 4 to 6 for earlier and for later eras respectively.

[db48x]

Why? The game works well enough as it is.

[xyzapip]

Originally posted by db48x:

Why? The game works well enough as it is.

I assume, this should make rushing through the ages more of a trade-off decision. I never did the math, but I guess right now there is no reason not to rush. Especially because tech discounts on earlier age tech make it a zero net effort but for maybe one delayed tech you get 6 rounds later?

[taomastercu]

Originally posted by alexleshok:

There has been a request already, but I'm starting this topic to gather suggestions how to better implement it. My thoughts:
1. Bring EU and CK mechanics "Ahead of time". So there's a chaos (and maybe additional tech cost) penalty if someone enters the next era without researching remaining techs of the following era. Double this penalty for unresearched techs of the previous era (triple for...). Penalties should scale down upon researching current-previous era techs.
2. Make tech prerequisites - so no tanks without cuirassiers, no advanced resource extractor without the basic one.
3. Consider raising tech prerequisites for the next era advancement up from 3 to 4 and from 4 to 6 for earlier and for later eras respectively.

How can you "bring back" mechanics from a totally different game genre to 4x?

[archonsod]

Originally posted by xyzapip:

I assume, this should make rushing through the ages more of a trade-off decision. I never did the math, but I guess right now there is no reason not to rush.

Well, you don't always want to be the one picking the next era.
There's still a trade off though. Tech costs are discounted by 10% for every other player who has that tech, so if you're rushing ahead you're basically paying full price for your techs while giving other players slightly cheaper tech.

Especially because tech discounts on earlier age tech make it a zero net effort but for maybe one delayed tech you get 6 rounds later?

There's still an opportunity cost - if I skip to Age 2 without Tribal Elders and another player picks it those are six turns where they could have double my knowledge production - and that's assuming they didn't pick it much earlier and as a result have opened up an even bigger gap.

[Deadwinter]

Na fake good idea... and will brake the idea of this game mech.

[chaney]

I'm feeling rushed by the AI pretty frequently on ages despite solid knowledge production. I suspect some have a programmed trait to push ages over completing good techs. I'm not sure it is a bad game mechanic since it requires the player to make a choice, but think I would prefer a more relaxed pace to pick up techs without leaving them for three eras later. The AI gives up some good infrastructure to rush I suspect ... making it ultimately weaker, but if only one of the computer players does this you hardly notice.

[satioh]

If you play on adapt or higher the AI get a knowledge bonus. The higher the difficulty the higher the bonus. 1 + 0.5 pr age on grandmaster. Might not be worth much in the later game, but is' huger in the first area and can let them get ahead.

[Bacon Seed]

I far prefer the approach the last patch highlighted.

Make your path through the tech tree dependant on where you start the game rather than civ 6 approach of choosing techs based on how you want to end the game.

I find the latest patch really changed how I Played the game. I play on GM, so the cultural reforms nerf, has made aspects of the game relevant where they weren't before. (e.g. innovations become viable when you aren't getting them for free, eureka's can be the difference between winning and losing an age race).

I like how small tweaks have the power to change the game without new mechanics. that sounds like balance to me.

[archonsod]

Originally posted by chaney:

I'm feeling rushed by the AI pretty frequently on ages despite solid knowledge production.

Why? Unless you're looking for a specific age the only benefit you get for being the first to age up is ten innovation. In return for which everyone else gets slightly cheaper tech. Sometimes it's better to allow the AI to take the lead - particularly if you're already in a variant age - and focus instead on increasing the number of your cities or otherwise building up your civilisation to be stronger in the next age.

[chaney]

I agree with that generally as long as they are not going ahead much much sooner than I prefer or am prepared to.

Usually if you are behind it is due to a lack of Knowledge generation, but I'm having a curious situation just now. The top Power Score rival, who has not been a tech leader thus far, is pushing the next age. I have been within a couple turns of the lead in the past. They started when I only had 2 of the current era techs done - minimum 2 to go before starting into the next age would even be allowed. Looking at what research they had completed in the era, I saw the 10% prior nation discount on only ONE of the current era techs I had not finished, so even if they had completed the exact same 2 I had already done, they only had 3 done, instead of the requisite 4. I don't see anything on the wiki about AI needing fewer techs to advance, so I'm concerned. Maybe it is some NS power or Innovation, but that sounds pretty strong.

The problem then becomes that I can have a new need, and will be VERY far from being able to satisfy it at all. It isn't a big deal in the game, but I'd like to understand how this prior tech follower jumped so far ahead, apparently not even satisfying the 4 tech requirement to advance.

In general the push feels like an artificial push just to keep the player on their toes. That isn't necessarily bad design as mentioned, but sometimes the scope gets a bit much. I'm happy to skip some not so relevant techs, and leapfrog past others, but I'm pretty sure the AI is skipping a lot of techs, which may be weakening them. Since players prefer more of an impression of playing against human level AI (even if they don't like losing to it) it could be that slowing down the propensity to push ahead would make the game more satisfying. It is a complex issue.