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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1Gv8yjEXw8 (as well as the shorter 2nd part) breaks things down.
The base theory is:;
- Our Elster and Ariane are in fact sent on the doomed mission.
- The mission fails with Elster dying from radiation poisoning before she can go through with her promise to help kill Ariane, while Ariane remains suspended (her bioresonance may be keeping her alive).
- Ariane wants death. Hence the repeated symbolism/motifs of the Isle of the Dead and the Shore of Oblivion. More specifically, she wants Elster to still fulfil the promise of killing her before things became unbearable.
- Ariane has powerful bioresonance, which can basically warp reality, and uses it to send her Elster's consciousness/memories back to the solar system to S23 (the prologue is this happening, the tunnel/gate is what appears in S23 and initiates the effect on the Falke unit, when she goes to explore the events in the mines).
- Elster's consciousness infests both an entirely different Elster unit there (Our continued MC, but *not* the one that went with Ariane to space, but likely the consciousness or memory of it), as well as it infests the Falke unit there (I/I/I, you/you/you, US!). It takes a while for Elster to be completely overwritten, and our MC sometimes mixes up people from her once-human mind, such as mixing up Ariane with a friend the human mind once had.
- The Falke unit likely amplifies the bioresonance locally, meaning the entire station is turned into the hellscape you go through, while the Falke unit goes into a coma.
- The events at Rotfront and Nowhere are uncertain in terms of - do they actually happen or are they just fever dreams of Ariane?
- A lot of the intermissions are Ariane's memories/the bioresonance, so is Isolde, a former friend of Ariane, who has no reason to be present in these locations, and in fact died at some point before they went on the mission, but Ariane might be manifesting her.
- Ultimately the final ending is probably Elster's consciousness overcoming her reluctance, and being sent back to the ship through bioresonance and going through with the promise to kill Ariane.
There are way more nuances and details, see the video if interested.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1262350/discussions/0/5855270367475629404/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1262350/discussions/0/4352240624605763492/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1262350/discussions/0/4032473436330126655/
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1262350/discussions/0/4518885092854637309/
Eh tried watching this. Good narration and presentation but there's quite a bit of leaps in the first ten minutes. I couldn't be sure of some bits, but by the time I got to gestalt at around 14 min, I was like these concepts aren't really being bridged coherently.
Nice writeups.
Question, you've argued against the existence of a timeloop. But how would you explain the three adler diaries? I understand that you're suggesting his original diary was the result of an insane mind. But why would the devs suddenly add in the triple dairy bit.
I wasn't aware either actually. I played the game before the 1.2 update. Apparently the update adding a secret a room where you can view additional adler diaries if you turn back before Falke:
https://signalis.wiki.gg/wiki/Adler%27s_Diary_(hidden)
https://signalis.wiki.gg/wiki/Adler%27s_Diary_(hidden2)
It's odd because ostensibly, it looks more like evidence for a time loop.
But then technically...it's not, because if it is, it conflicts with the alleged diary entry loop.
But it's still multiple diaries with different entries for the same dates.
I don't know what to make of it honestly. I just came across it while surfing the threads you linked haha.
Don't forget that between Synchronicity and Pareidolia you can explain everything that you would need a timeloop for otherwise. Which is one more reason I don't think timeloops are a legitimate interpretation of the story - if it was intended by the devs, they would have no reason to add all these other elements that explain the same things.
I can't seem to make sense of the diaries from any perspective really. I don't think pareidolia (and adler's insanity) could explain it here. Unless you think he just made multiple diaries simultaneously with parallel entries?
Of course the way how we are presented these entries, through Elster's own breaking down mind, is also unreliable.
So what we are reading as text is separated from the "primary source" by at least two layers of unreliability.
Because everything presented in this thread is not accurate, IMO.
There are many complex layers to the plot of Signalis. One important one to know is hinted at by the name of the ship: The Penrose. Penrose was a theorist who came up with an alternative theory to the Big Bang Theory called Conformal Cyclic Cosmology Theory.
Basically, this theory says that the universe (our conception of time and space) is cyclical: It starts, ends, and recycles. But every time it ends, some memories of the prior incarnation remain and act as just enough of an anomaly to slightly change events in the new iteration.
The portal in the mines leads to another dimension removed from time and space. There are also numerous artifacts that also seem to exist beyond normal space and time and can preserve items contained within. One of these is the mysterious box Adler has in his room with his journal in it. Basically, Adler catches on that this cycle is happening and is able to pass this knowledge onto other iterations of himself.
A big hint to this plot point is that Adler remembers an LSTR unit being at Sierpinsky even though both he and a Kolibri adjutant acknowledge that no records of such an LSTR unit were ever there. That's because this LSTR WAS there, in some CCC iterations, known as LSTR-S2301. This is why Adler says "you should not have returned" when he pushes you down the elevator shaft. This is why there are so many LSTR corpses filling the shaft that you survive the fall and end up on a certain floor. Also, if you're really paying attention and you die enough times, your name in the death screen will change from LSTR-S2301 to LSTR-512 (I just saw this in my current playthrough).
The LSTR you're playing at first at Sierpinsky is in fact LSTR-S2301. You are recognized multiple times, especially by the surviving Arar they added in the patch. What happens when you make it through the portal in the false ending occurs is that this LSTR more or less dies... BUT its memory carries on as another LSTR incarnation, this time LSTR-512 (there's a document hinting that LSTR units lost their original Gestalt host's memories, so they are replicated from decommissioned LSTR units from the Penrose Program, which in itself is even more interesting because, as yourself, how are they recovering anything from the allegedly one-way Penrose expeditions into deep space?).
It gets really confusing because the plot is very convoluted. There is also some kind of convergence taking place of iterations through self-awareness (mostly by Adler), which is probably also the cause of the fleshy corruption that is breaking down both Gestalts and Replikants (in other words, the universe is becoming more corrupted with each iteration).
Basically for the first half, you are LSTR-S2301 looking for Alina Seo on Sierpinsky. In the second half, you are LSTR-512 looking for Arianne Yeoung on Rotfront. So what is going on here? It gets far more convoluted. Stick with me.
First it needs to be understood that Sierpinsky is not a mining facility. It is, in fact, a cover for an ancient facility located underground with the portal. This is where the Eusan Nation is creating Replikants. It does this by sending Gestalts through the portal where their consciousness can somehow be extracted and replicated into android husks known as Replikants. These Gestalts (humans) are not sent there willingly. They are kept in cages, explicitly shown throughout the facility. This is a prison camp.
There are documents that show that Arianne had the choice of either going to Sierpinsky or doing the Penrose Program. What needs to be understood is that she has done both, through multiple CCC iterations. She was sent to Sierpinsky, shoved through the portal, and used as the basis for Falke command Replikants. Arianne was regarded as the most powerful Resonant known at the time, and the Nation's stances on Resonant's are that they are dangerous... unless they can be converted into controllable drones like Replikants.
Alina Seo was also sent to Sierpinsky in some iterations, the ones where LSTR-S2301 was there. Alina Seo was also shoved through the portal and probably used for the basis of the STAR Replikant. The STAR Replikant is a security android. Alina was a soldier in the war. There's a big hint to this connection when you find the surviving STAR and the EULE in the mines, where they are close friends... very similar to the war photo of Alina with the other soldier, who is Lilith Itou. Lilith Itou is almost certainly the same person as Erika Itou, Iso Itou's twin sister that she is searching for who was disappeared by the Nation after childhood rebellion. This is why you encounter Iso on both Sierpinsky and Rotfront, because you ARE Iso's sister that she is searching for. Why would Iso even be in the game if not for this expression of cosmic irony.
Anyway, back to Arianne. The whole overall plot is that Elster must fulfil the "promise". What a lot of people get wrong is that they think this means Elster must put a sick Arianne out of her misery in the cryo tube on the Penrose mission in deep space. HOWEVER, this is only the case for the iteration where she is actually out in deep space on the Penrose Mission. This is actually a THIRD iteration that you briefly play midway in the game (where you are on the ship dancing with her). Think about it: we have three different Penrose ships (one crashed at Sierpinsky, one crashed in the portal dimension, and one on a one-way trip to outer space). But the "promise" means different things based on different iterations.
The "promise" that we are actually fulfilling in the gameplay is that we are assassinating Falke. Why? Because the Falke unit is based on Arianne's consciousness. This is a revolution against the Nation that has condemned Arianne to this fate on Sierpinsky (in this iteration). By destroying this Falke unit, we are putting Arianne out of her misery, while also essentially destroying the command structure of Replikant security forces that are oppressing Gestalts.
But again, there is convergence of different iterations going on, so it is overall abstract as to what is really going on. The main thing of note that happens in the iteration that we are playing as is that this Elster doesn't actually die in the portal dimension (the false ending), and instead crawls out of the portal and ends up at Rotfront somehow after stripping apart another LSTR husk for armour (and a new right arm).
There's way more to this plot too, including many things that I still don't understand (especially without personally reading the real world book on the Yellow King). But I'm confident this is a solid explanation of what the devs were trying to convey with the plot.
EDIT: Now that I have completed it a third time, I know what the corruption (fleshy goo) is. This also explains a lot of other potholes. Stick with me.
There is a document that states that Gestalt hosts for Replikant neurological personas are stored in cryogenesis somewhere. Another document states that the neurological data for the LSTR Replikants was destroyed, so they are plucking the host neurology for LSTRs from decommissioned LSTRs from the Penrose Program. Yet another document states that they don't actually know how any of this process works, only that it is tied to (Jung's theory of) synchronicity. They also state that the use bioresonant technicians to maintain the link between the host and the Replikants in the programming process.
Think about it: the only cryo tubes we see are on the Penrose ships. Considering synchronicity ignores rules of time and space (and is essentially the portal dimension), then maybe these Gestalt hosts are all on Penrose ships in deep space. That would be the best way to protect them from enemies.
The main takeaway here is that the LSTR units are based on neurology from other decommissioned LSTR units. This means that a unit like LSTR-512, which went through persona degradation from being around Ariane for at least 13.5 years, would be influencing other LSTR units. Any LSTR unit would already have a predisposition to get close to Ariane, since the original host was Lilith Itou who was close to Seo; there are documents right at the end that clearly link Seo and Ariane as being very similar people, just with different hair.
It would be easy to just say that all of the other dead LSTR units laying around everywhere are all from other Penrose expeditions or whatever that all independently decided to go to Sierpinsky. And how interesting it is that only one went to Rotfront (the playable one). However, Adler is the critical link here for the CCC theory.
So the corruption is caused from Elster basically being replicated in the universe by popping out of the portal dimension at Sierpinsky somehow. This replication process is throwing the universe out of whack, which is why Adler tries to stop her.
Honestly, I'm about 80% confident on all of this lol. The one thing I don't get is when dealing with Falke, she is implying that she is connected to Elster, and she even becomes corrupted when Elster confronts her. It makes way more sense to me that Ariane is the host to Falke, not Elster.
Anyway, I'm open for interpretation.
The rest has been addressed multiple times already. Even beyond arguing, the simple facts remain - if the devs wanted the game to be explainable by cycles or similar, they would have no need to put Synchronicity, Pareidolia, Bioresonance, Gestalt memories etc. etc. into the story - they would just be redundant then. If they got put in it - it means they each serve a unique narrative purpose.
I'm pretty sure it's not at all random that the few (only?) times anything relating to cycles or loops in the game is mentioned (which is very very rare) comes from Adler - the most unreliable character in the game.
It's a red herring.
The entire point of Adler is that he is the one who actually knows what is going on. In fact, he even knew what was going on as a Gestalt, as he was the one leaving all those memos laying around Rotfront on dreams foreseeing things like the fleshy corruption on Sierpinski. Adler even makes a note on how he knew Ariane when he was a Gestalt because he was doing tarot readings with her. He also strongly resembles Nikolai on the red floppy disc medical list, some of whom seem to be hosts for Replikants. On top of this, there is a subplot in Rotfront documents about an Imperial spy on Rotfront, and this spy leaves a memo saying that he believes he was compromised by Ariane, whom he knows is bioresonant. Sounds like it's all the same guy.
Aside from all that, nothing you said explains why there's like a hundred dead LSTR units laying around. It also doesn't explain the multiple versions of Elster, Alina or Ariane in the portal dimension. And the white armour configuration of LSTR is a combat configuration according to docs; nothing says this is the model made after the host data was destroyed.
As for synchronicity, it is a theory by Carl Jung on how we are all connected on the subconscious level via what is essentially an alternate dimension that doesn't follow the conventional rules of time and space. This theory is saying that everything in the universe is connected on some level. In terms of astronomical physics, this is in the context that all mass influences anything else with mass (ie., gravity), even if these are quasars on opposite ends of the known universe. This all involves vibrations on an atomic, and probably sub-atomic level. I'm not physicist but I have done lots of mushrooms in my day, so trust me bro.
The devs without question have constructed the narrative of the game in a way that first you are meant to buy into one specific way of looking at the story, and then through replaying and piecing seemingly minor info together, to deconstruct that initial view with a new one backed by your narrative archeology and by your agency as a player in an interactive piece of media. And it's also without question that the easiest, most direct and straightforward explanation that the game gives initially for everything is cycles\loops, and its also without question that many (really all) of the other details you find, if you buy into the loops, seem redundant or contradictory to that view.
Most people believe the Spy on Rotfron is Ariane's aunt. If you have actual textual evidence for a different take you have to present them in a more coherent matter. I'm not saying you are wrong - you just have to build your case in a more formal manner, with quotes and screenshots etc. for this point. I actually think this would be a cool new finding if it can be textually backed in a satisfying way. Considering that in one of the patches the devs updated the portrait of Nikolai, there is definitely a possibility there is more to Adler's Gestalt on Rotfront than most think.
I don't know how many times I've said this - the LSTR corpses and all the rest is easily and straightforwardly explained by Pareidolia and Elster's mind breaking down. We are viewing the game's events through her POV, a POV of a Replika that has been undergoing persona degradation AND at the end of its operational lifecycle BOTH. She is an UNRELIABLE narrator to all events we see. You are meant to find textually backed ways of explaining the strange things she sees, not take them at face value.
According to the notes, the Vinetan Soldier was the Gestalt used for the LSTR unit. That first generation unit had the "iconic white armor" (direct quote from a readable). Our Elster has no such armor - so she's not a first gen unit (this is obvious from other details as well). And we are told that one of those first gen units was used for the subsequent LSTR units' neural pattern after the original soldier's one was lost. If you go by strictly what the game gives you as info, it's impossible to arrive at a different timeline. Vinetan Solider -> first gen "iconic white armor" LRST -> second gen LSTR units are based on a "Penrose decommissioned" (again direct quote) first gen unit that went to look for Aline on Sierpinsky due to Persona degradation -> Ariane's Elster is based on that decommissioned first gen unit.
Synchronicity in-game refers to the resurfacing Gestalt memories Replikas experience after undergoing persona degradation/destabilization.
I don't agree with this at all. The first glance narrative that this game is trying to portray is that Elster is going rampant.
The actual untrustworthy source of narrative information is The Nation and its publications, which is where the idea of pareidoila is coming from. It's extremely obvious that when they say Replikants who development persona degradation must be destroyed, they mean that the Replikant is developing a sentient, uncontrollable personality like a human, which is what the Nation is repressing with Replikants to begin with.
The Nation does nothing but publish propaganda, lies and gaslighting. How about that document on how lucky Gestalts are chosen for hosting neurology of Replikants... followed by the classified document on how these Gestalt hosts are condemned to cryotubes.
Adler is the narrative device that is there to explain the cycles to the player. The less obvious dead giveaway is naming the ship/program "Penrose". As I stated earlier, Penrose is the very theorist who came up with the theory behind the cyclic universe. You wouldn't know this unless you knew who Penrose was and had the basic gist of his work.
Adler's Gestalt being the spy on Rotfront has many hints. The most obvious link is that Adler is obsessed with reciting lines from banned Imperial books like "The Yellow King", which happens to be one of many banned books circulating around Rotfront. He straight up says he remembers his Gestalt doing tarot readings for Ariane. All of the mysticism stuff is from the Empire, not the Nation. The notes on ADLR units' persona degradation (aka regression) state that this is caused from boredom, and Adler is the most bored guy in the universe. He is remembering lines TYK as he regresses back to his Gestalt persona.
And in a roundabout way, this also makes Adler responsible for encouraging the rebellious spirit in Ariane. Similar banned Imperial books are also in the radar station, which is where Ariane was raised by her mother. But the similarities between these two and the Great Revolutionary and Her Daughter are a different discussion altogether. The one other important thing to know about The Empire is that the facility underneath the mines where they bring caged Gestalts is clearly an old Imperial facility. The Empire did invent Replikants as servants for Gestalts, but the Nation use Replikants to enforce an oppressive police state over Gestalts. Both use this facility to produce Replikants somehow.
This is wrong. Synchronicity in the game means that everybody can tap into a collective unconsciousness regardless of where they are located in space and time... which is exactly the same theory in real life. The point of bioresonance is that those who are bioresonant can tap into this collective subconscious. We call this psychic phenomenon in the real world, like how remote viewing works.
Quote 1: Now, we must remember that the game doesn't operate on a purely overt, textual level however. It employs symbolism, visual metaphor, and subtext to carry its meaning as well. An example of this is, near the beginning of the game, we find a key inside a butterfly box. In the last third, we find a box [case] with a butterfly in it, with the phrase "Pareidolia". The phrase is the key inside the box. This is the visual metaphor. it's a direct callback. And instead of opening a door, it opens up new avenues of looking at the narrative. Like I said before, the chronological place of these "facts" the game gives us has to be considered. On a first playthrough, where the mystery for the player is the most enigmatic, they probably wouldn't make much note of this. But on a second run, with the knowledge of the entire game with them, including the endings, this can completely redefine how you view the events. Which is why I think this is a big clue on the parts of the developers. There's too much intent, detail and attention put into this to be of little importance. This is just one example of how we can deduce with confidence which parts are more important than others. It's not a random hunch, it's something the devs have lampshaded for us, and it's also important to note how subtle they are about presenting clues and keys, while how obvious they are regarding the mysteries (the switcheroo with the photo being a good example of this).
Quote 2: Now think about this. In the beginning of the game, in the first section, you come across a room with a box with a butterfly design in it, holding a key that you need to further progress. Way later in the game, you come to a somewhat similar room. It has a display case with a butterfly in it, and a phrase - "Pareidolia". In that same room is a safe, and when you approach it the letters on the lock combination have "ADLR" on them. This is not a simple coincidence. The devs are giving you the elbow and telling you to pay attention. They have created a visual metaphor. In the first room, the key is inside the butterfly box. In the second one - the phrase is the key inside the box (case). But what is it a key to? It's a key to further understanding and solving the mystery. The concept of Pareidolia is essential for understanding a lot of the more confusing parts of the game, especially the doubling (in reality - subjective confusion and combining) between seemingly very similar sets of characters. The devs have spend a lot of creative effort marking this "Pareidolia" revelation (its too big to just be a clue). It's both strongly emphasized while not being overt. You most probably won't think too much of this on your first playthrough when you are at peak confusion. But it is there to undercut your understanding on your next ones when you pick up on it. And what's the first thing the devs want you to think this new way of looking at the events of the game undercuts? ADLR. It's also not random that his name is initially on the combination letter lock.
Pareidolia is not (merely) an in-universe piece of information meant to manipulate a populace, its a key directly given to us (the players) by the devs in order to unlock the narrative mysteries of the game.
Elster breaking down is not meant to be an answer - its the vehicle for the mystery. You still have to explain what exactly is happening and why while she's breaking down. Cycles/loops is an attempt at explaining that, not an opposing answer to it. Synchronicity + Pareidolia is my answer.
Many things in the games are named after real world people, like Sierpinsnky. Pensore's name being used doesn't mean its a conformation that a cyclical in-universe explanation is intended, it can just be a symbolic reference to how the events play out - breaking down Replika units acting out the exact same Gestalt memories, as if stuck in a loop. Get it? In terms of textual evidence this by itself is pretty weak, especially compared to how much the game gives you to discredit this reading.
Ariane was raised by her mother in the Radio Shack before she went to Rotfront - meaning before she might have met with Nikolai. In general we get a lot more of Ariane and her Aunt + Itou sisters in the Rotfront section, if Nikolai was such a big presence in her life he would have been more present, directly mentioned by her even. I'm not sold at all, but it's a cool theory that might be relevant in other ways beyond a connection to Ariane/the spy. In general the whole spy story is pretty interesting from a narrative perspective. If you were going for a loops theory - why even put it in? It's complete filler in that case.
You contradicted yourself at the end. Like you said - bioresonant people can tap into this "collective unconscious", but Synchronicity is very obviously a term the game only uses for Replikas. This is the term it uses to describe the resurfacing memories due to persona degradation. The tapping into the "collective unconscious" is an entirely different thing that's related to Ariane and her latent bioresonant abilities. You are conflating the two.