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Datamining has shown that the shrine at the beginning of Nowhere is the Itou family shrine, there's obviously Isold and Erika Itou, but there's also Lilly Itou who's the most likely Gestaltz where Elster originates from
Thing is, why would you find the Itou shrine here specifically if not simply because it's a complete mental fabrication
From then on it becomes pretty easy to question the existence of every single other location
2) To me it's a symbol of the cycles, pure and simple, crossing one means starting a new cycle, but obviously not literally, the gates don't actually exist
3) It's a tough one for sure but i also don't think the cosmic horrors are to be taken literally either
In my opinion the Red Eye is simply Ariane's, the "god" of this domain, since she's the most likely candidate for the dream we're stuck in
And Ariane has red eyes
4) There is no Alina Seo, she's an alternative projection of Ariane, if Ariane had failed her Penrose Program test, she's literally a red herring coming from a character named after a mythological character known for her red string
There's probably a lot of what ifs and regrets in all this, since Ariane also summons Isa, stuck looking for Erika, basically her only friends, and you eventually discover they were both long dead, what with their funeral portraits in the photo shop, at which point Isa just ceases to exist
5) I think these are two different things
First off, there is evidence suggesting that it's not "an LSTR unit" because really, there is only Elster
Second, becoming whole is most likely just Ariane and Elster wanting to be reunited, one last time
Third, it could possibly refer to Elster's fragmented state, which would explain all the different LSTR, culminating with Falke who says that literally
1). Nowhere in my eyes seems to be the inside of someones mind, the red flesh and pulsating veins look almost like tumors or cancerous bulbs that arent supposed to be there, and like you said the rooms look like ones we've already seen throughout the game so maybe its a twisted mash up of someones memories? im not too too sure
2). This i got nothing on, the gate seems to be connected to whatever artifact or god began spreading the infection to the replikas starting with falke, as i dont know much on this, im afraid thats all i can say
3). If you remeber on ROTFRONT theres a book there that tells you this red eye is just a folk tale, its not actually real its just something caused by natural occurrences, like storm eyes, however, remember ariane grew up on rotfront believing in the occult and all that stuff, so she would think that this red eye would be an actual thing.
4). Okay so, theres no real relationship bewteen them, ariane saw alina first in an old war photo alongside a woman who seems to be LSTRS gestalt counter part, she noticed that alina and her looked almost the EXACT same, and even her mother said they could be twins as a joke, regarding the twins, they we're arianes friends during her time at school, its not really known what happens to them as ariane goes away on the penrose program before ever really finding out.
5). Yes you are right, When elster dies, the loop restarts, another elster gets the previous ones memories and the cycle continues, unless you want to look at this in a pure meta stand point and say that WE the player are continuing the cycles i think thats all there is too it, Arianes bio resonance, is carrying over Elsters memories to a new LSTR unit so they can try again.
Nowhere, and I believe, everything you see after dropping down to the bottom of the mine is a space created by the entity based on Ariane's mind and memories. Nowhere could represent her unconscious in the same way the Otherworlds in Silent Hill did.
The gate can mean many things, for Elster I think it symbolized crossing over to the "underworld" to find Ariane, and into the unreality created by the entity which she is almost certain never to return from.
The "red eye" can also mean a lot of things, but I think for Falke it was the entity that she was able to perceive psychically peering into her mind and slowly overriding her self and memories.
According to Ariane's diary, Alina was just someone she saw in a photo and decided to emulate by joining the military. The other woman with her looks uncannily like Elster, so she may be the original that all Elsters were based on. This is also interesting because our Elster arrives with a photo of Alina and claims to be looking for her at the base, though she is most certainly long dead. The entity perhaps was only able to influence her memories to the point that she knew someone important to her was on Leng when it "called" her there.
Yes, I think what Falke was referring to is that you're both still "counterfeits" at that point, you haven't taken on enough of the persona of the "original" Elster from Penrose to fulfill the promise, and she also mentions never being able to see Ariane again. In the "memory" end Ariane fails to recognize you which may be the outcome she foresaw.
Why would you think that there's no Alina Seo? She's depicted in the photo of the 5th Vinetan Infantry alongside Lilith Ito - the person ELSTER is derived from. Her person is the sole reason why ELSTER is so attached to Ariane, who looks just like Alina.
ELSTER's affection to Ariane because of her resemblance to Alina is explained very thoroughly, if you're paying attention. As a basis, it is heavily implied that Replika's may recall the memories of the Gestalts they're based on. To prevent this, measures are taken to "stabilize" their personalities. In the case of LSTR units, it is specifically said, not to show them pictures of war, movies or music and to not befriend them. All of which Ariane did, which is why ELSTER formed such a strong connection to her.
The Alina Seo you see in the picture with Lilith Itou, the one you're looking for as Elster, does not exist in the story you're playing
She likely existed some time ago, hence the letters with Ariane's mother, but Ariane never met her
The Itou contemporary to Ariane are Isold and Erika, her only friends, both of whom died at some point before Ariane left for the Penrose program, since you eventually find their shrine in the family photo shop
Or maybe that's Ariane's way of thinking they're probably long gone
It's hard to come up with a definitive answer because like one of the trailer says, you're sleep walking in a half remembered dream
So, who knows what you should take for a fact, really
And by the way, Isa looks suspiciously like Alina
Lilith is assumed to be Elster's original Gestaltz as i also mentioned in my first post, but there's something more going on what with the recurring missing right eye, that historically is supposed to start with this photo and then affects multiple characters over the course of the story we follow
In any case, Ariane uses Alina as a projection, a "what if i never decided to get in the Penrose program, what if i met my love in a different way", with a confusion between Elster and Lilith
This subversion's origin is hinted at in the note saying if she were to fail the test she'd become a worker
I know it's all very convoluted and my english is lacking
Milky explained that part better
edit -
Also since you wonder about Nowhere, you'd probably be interested to know the shrine was datamined and it turns out this is a Yeong family shrine, Ariane included
It's probably also worth noting (because i haven't seen people mention it) that there's something extremely weird going on with the rooms transitions, going out the right door will make you start the next screen on the right door, a big no no with level design, entirely done that way on purpose
I think you're wrong, if you think it is Ariane pulling the strings here. For ELSTER, Ariane and Alina are basically interchangeable. Over the course of the story, the person ELSTER is looking for changes from Ariane to Alina back to Ariane, all of which implies that we are in ELSTER's mind. I don't know why you would think that it is Ariane projecting some kind of dream/world onto her.
I think it's pretty obvious that this is a story about ELSTER coming to grips with the fact that Ariane is dying, and the promise she gave to Ariane to end her suffering. The different areas could be interpreted as varying stages of grief, all entered through gates. ADLER represents her struggle against herself, hence why both ELSTER and ADLER are losing their right eye. Same as Lilith in the past. He's trying to keep her from entering the last gate, which might be the stage of acceptance. The relationship between ADLER and FALKE too mirrors that of Lilith/Alina and ELSTER/Ariane. When you first encounter FALKE she's in the same position as Ariane in the cryo pod. Overcoming FALKE means fulfilling her promise to Ariane. "We are now one." - a sentence I think is alluring to that promise they made together and to their Shakespearean ending of two lovers reunited in death. Especially considering ELSTER is approaching the end of her "operational lifetime", which may also add to her struggle, confusion and dysfunction, and could be the reason as to why she is seen breaking down in every ending. Or maybe that sentence simply means that ELSTER is no longer split on what she has to do and came to a decision.
Hence the "becoming whole" plotline
Although in my opinion it's not either Ariane or Elster, it's Ariane the dreamer and Elster the sleepwalker inside
I've seen much speculation that everything is fabricated by Ariane, either in the head of someone terminally ill with radiation poisoning and losing her sanity, or with the bioresonant powers she is hinted to have. I can see why people are going with that. If that is the case, a lot of things in the game, like the warping around from Sierpenski to Rofront, make a lot more sense. My problem with this theory though is if it's all made up by Ariane, and she wants Elster to find her and keep her promise, why would Ariane put all these obstacles in the way for Elster? I think some of what Elster experiences in the game is for sure not physically happening, but either some of it has to be real, or it's not all Ariane's doing.
Becoming whole could refer to Elster reuniting with Ariane, but I think there’s more to it because Adler says he has become whole in the scene just before Elster arrives on Rotfront. Falke also says they’ve become whole after you defeat her. That one at least could be taken to mean now that Elster has dealt with her, she’s about to reach Ariane.
I somewhat agree with the Replika theory. In a way, even though LSTR units are described as loners, ELSTER personifies all of the Replika types due to her Gestalt memories being unlocked through the bond with Ariane. It makes her a much more complex person. She seems to enjoy music and dancing, for instance. Something that would be attributed to EULE units. All the more reason for why I think we are in ELSTER's mind. From a metaphorical standpoint, the roles of ADLER and FALKE are pretty clear to me. Not to mention that those units are much more unique than other Replikas you encounter.
I'm curious: Why would you think that ELSTER is sleepwalking in Ariane's dream? I can't think of any clue from the game pointing torwards that idea. Quite the opposite: According to her medical file, she's suffering from insomnia. Her diary also mentions this, among other hints telling me that she might suffer from severe depression. She especially mentions that she just want's to sleep and disappear.
I'm generally resistant to the theory that the much or all of the game is in the mind (I just don't usually like that kind of thing), but I think if anywhere in the game is not real it's definitely Nowhere.
It seems a bit too much of a coincidence to me that there's no connection between Ariane and Alina, although what Muscarine says about Ariane imagining what her life would have been like had she gone to Sierpinski instead of joining the Penrose Program makes some sense. I recall there being a note left by Ariane where she wonders what kind of life Alina has/had too.
I hadn't caught the similarity to Falke in bed and Ariane in the cryo pod. Nice.
Thinking about it just now, if Elster's persona was based on the person in the photo with Alina, Elster looking for her on Sierpinski could be her gestalt memories resurfacing and making her confused.
Correct me if i'm wrong but i'm pretty sure this note is left by Ariane, not Elster
Ariane gets major depression and anxiety by the end of the Penrose journey when everything falls apart, the reactor leaks, Elster tries to fix it again and again, Ariane lose hair and teeth
All she has left to survive is the cryopod
They both agree she has to get in there to try to save her life, while Elster who's reaching the end of her operational lifetime is basically left with the promise : see if you can save us but if not, wake me up and let's die together
But Elster failed, most likely because she tried to save the Penrose until the very end, she simply couldn't bare Ariane dying... and she shut down
But Ariane is still asleep in the cryopod which is now contaminated with radiations
And that's where the game begins, although due to the events you see unfold it's clear you're not starting at the first cycle, in fact i don't think we should see it as linear a b c d cycles anyway, it's all an overlap, and the ARG nature of the game makes me think the many Elster bodies you find around also represent the many attempts by many other players
It starts with "wake up"
To me the dreamer is Ariane, the Red Eye is Ariane, the artifact is either her soul or the promise
But i'm not going to disagree that Elster has influence on this dream because there are too many coincidences
I also think due to the ARG nature of the game there is probably more left to understand than just the SSTV signal which was already entirely inaccessible for 99% of the playerbase
I'm using the sleepwalker / dreamer dichotomy because that's what in the third trailer
https://i.imgur.com/Itwc1Y9.jpg
I feel you. But what is real and what is not does not really matter that much, imo. The game is heavily inspired by Silent Hill 2, to which it has almost too many similar plot points.
Exactly what I meant. Ariane not being able to sleep does not exactly make her much of a dreamer, no? When you find her, she's not in stasis. Her cryo pod is open.
Putting herself in cryo would also eliminate the necessity for ELSTER to end Ariane's life. It was mentioned as one of the ways of dealing with the situation in the last ship transmission.
This could be a reference to Lilith' memories resurfacing, hence the "half-remembered".
No no no
The cryopod is a last ditch effort to prolong Ariane's life, the official documents warn her against any attempt at doing so, it says she should be proud of what she has done for her nation and embrace death
Where we start, it's unknown for how long the Penrose has been floating in deep space fully contaminated with radiations from the leaking reactor, it's speculated and i tend to agree with the theory, that all the organic mass you see throughout the game is Ariane dying of massive generalized cancer
It's also very unlikely the Penrose ever crashed, and if it actually really did so, it was definitely not on a snowy planet
Maybe we're misunderstanding each other. It is generally not advised to try prolong her life and with that her suffering, yes. But as for the cryo pod, the message[i.imgur.com] specifically says:
"We suggest that you ask your Replika, while it is still functional, to spare you a slow and agonizing death, or that you take permanent rest in the cryogenic pod."
I guess your angle is that putting her in the open (!) pod is an attempt to prolong her life, which may very well be the case. Though I don't see how that adds to your argument of Ariane dreaming the events of the game.
In the context of the story, it doesn't even matter if the Penrose ever crashed. But aside from the flashback of them being happy together, the ship is always shown as crash landed, which kind of makes sense given that it's systems are failing.
As for how long the ship was under way: We know that the mission was supposed to last 3000 cycles at maximum. The last diary entry we find is dated at cycle 54XX. Any illnesses from failing systems and increasingly sparse supplies would have taken place within these additional 2400+ cycles.