Bothered by heavy punch change

[TrueEvil]

Since I know the devs keep up with these forums, I'm just stopping by to voice my displeasure with the recent change to the heavy punch. You now must sprint for about a quarter second in order to input a heavy punch, which has had a shockingly large impact on my enjoyment of the game. I'm constantly turning my sprint on and off when I fight, so I'm having a lot of trouble adjusting to the change. While it's possible for me to "just adapt", I still think that the game feels much worse in this condition, and I'd much rather see it reversed than have to play the game this way.

[Yami]

they gave us the fling mechanic back in exchange of a nerf on heavy punch and god knows what else. the game hasn't been out for at least a year and they're making such poor decisions.

[Sticks]

I've been bothered by people who do nothing but fish for an easy knockout by heavy punching over and over and over again until it landed with no real counter play other than to do the same thing and hope yours land first so I appreciate this change. Games like this are really no place for that kind of meta BS so I'm glad they balanced it out to give a reason to use other attacks.

[Phazonar]

Game felt so sluggish I felt like I was controlling a Fall Guy

[Jack The Dripper]

glad now it isnt groups dancing until someone lands a punch.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Sticks:

I've been bothered by people who do nothing but fish for an easy knockout by heavy punching over and over and over again until it landed with no real counter play other than to do the same thing and hope yours land first so I appreciate this change. Games like this are really no place for that kind of meta BS so I'm glad they balanced it out to give a reason to use other attacks.

Originally posted by Frankie Two Toes:

glad now it isnt groups dancing until someone lands a punch.

Great. I can play that game too: now the game is all about spamming and whiffing a dozen dropkicks until you land a lucky one. So much better, right?

Crappifying the heavy punch doesn't solve your problem with heavy punch meta. Dropkicks are unbelievably punishable because of their recovery time, and headbutts in a fair fight have rarely done anything other than devolve the fight into a coin toss. It's not that heavy punch was ridiculously good, it was that the alternatives tend to put you into stupid conditions that you don't usually want to find yourself in.

All this change has done is made the fights between any two good players even more passive, because their ability to throw out any attacks that don't leave them outrageously vulnerable has been kneecapped. They're still going to use mostly heavy punches, because dropkicks and headbutts still carry more risk for equivalent reward.

I wouldn't have a problem with dropkicks taking less time to recover from, and you'd see better changes to fight variety from that than by gimping the heavy punch. Even I'm frankly bored with how easy it is to just bait a dropkick and immediately go and punish it. "Attack first lose first" is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ boring mindset and unfortunately that's all this change has reinforced for very experienced players.

[Jack The Dripper]

Originally posted by TrueEvil:

Originally posted by Sticks:

I've been bothered by people who do nothing but fish for an easy knockout by heavy punching over and over and over again until it landed with no real counter play other than to do the same thing and hope yours land first so I appreciate this change. Games like this are really no place for that kind of meta BS so I'm glad they balanced it out to give a reason to use other attacks.

Originally posted by Frankie Two Toes:

glad now it isnt groups dancing until someone lands a punch.

Great. I can play that game too: now the game is all about spamming and whiffing a dozen dropkicks until you land a lucky one. So much better, right?

Crappifying the heavy punch doesn't solve your problem with heavy punch meta. Dropkicks are unbelievably punishable because of their recovery time, and headbutts in a fair fight have rarely done anything other than devolve the fight into a coin toss. It's not that heavy punch was ridiculously good, it was that the alternatives tend to put you into stupid conditions that you don't usually want to find yourself in.

All this change has done is made the fights between any two good players even more passive, because their ability to throw out any attacks that don't leave them outrageously vulnerable has been kneecapped. They're still going to use mostly heavy punches, because dropkicks and headbutts still carry more risk for equivalent reward.

I wouldn't have a problem with dropkicks taking less time to recover from, and you'd see better changes to fight variety from that than by gimping the heavy punch. Even I'm frankly bored with how easy it is to just bait a dropkick and immediately go and punish it. "Attack first lose first" is a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ boring mindset and unfortunately that's all this change has reinforced for very experienced players.

in short, its not good change to ur paly style or for "experienced players" .

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Frankie Two Toes:

in short, its not good change to ur paly style or for "experienced players" . :WH3_skragHapp:

....yeah. That's why I made the post to begin with. Because it's significantly hurt my enjoyment of the game, and I can name at least 5 other players with 500+ hours who feel the same. I want to give the devs feedback on it so that they might consider reverting the change.

[Sticks]

Have you ever considered that you abusing the hell out of the previous state heavy punches were in was significantly hurting the enjoyment of everyone on the receiving end of it? Having people like you in matches was such a buzz kill that often ended in 3-0-0-0 matches where everyone but you is just AFK at the end screen because you made sure to suck the fun out of it for the entire lobby. Anything that moves the game away from that direction is a good call in my opinion.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Sticks:

Have you ever considered that you abusing the hell out of the previous state heavy punches were in was significantly hurting the enjoyment of everyone on the receiving end of it? Having people like you in matches was such a buzz kill that often ended in 3-0-0-0 matches where everyone but you is just AFK at the end screen because you made sure to suck the fun out of it for the entire lobby. Anything that moves the game away from that direction is a good call in my opinion.

Yeah, and that's actually why I've wanted light SBMM for a while too. It's boring to fight bad players, and it sucks that they have to fight me. I actually leave most of the matches where it's clear that I'm the only player that knows what's going on. Don't think for a second that I take any pleasure in dominating lobbies.

And again, gimping the heavy punch doesn't change this. Whether if it's by continuing to "abuse" the heavy punch, or by caving and adapting to some different meta, "people like me" are going to continue to be "such a buzz kill" by nature of just being better at the game. That's not anyone's fault - that's just how it is. I'm still going to move better, throw better, and fight better than most other players. The only difference now is that I'm going to have less fun with it in the process, which frankly reinforces even greater adherence to meta and passivity. Which I don't want, and you definitely don't want.

[Pielane]

Originally posted by TrueEvil:

Originally posted by Sticks:

Have you ever considered that you abusing the hell out of the previous state heavy punches were in was significantly hurting the enjoyment of everyone on the receiving end of it? Having people like you in matches was such a buzz kill that often ended in 3-0-0-0 matches where everyone but you is just AFK at the end screen because you made sure to suck the fun out of it for the entire lobby. Anything that moves the game away from that direction is a good call in my opinion.

Yeah, and that's actually why I've wanted light SBMM for a while too. It's boring to fight bad players, and it sucks that they have to fight me. I actually leave most of the matches where it's clear that I'm the only player that knows what's going on. Don't think for a second that I take any pleasure in dominating lobbies.

And again, gimping the heavy punch doesn't change this. Whether if it's by continuing to "abuse" the heavy punch, or by caving and adapting to some different meta, "people like me" are going to continue to be "such a buzz kill" by nature of just being better at the game. That's not anyone's fault - that's just how it is. I'm still going to move better, throw better, and fight better than most other players. The only difference now is that I'm going to have less fun with it in the process, which frankly reinforces even greater adherence to meta and passivity. Which I don't want, and you definitely don't want.

You couldn't be more right my dude, 100% on this post.

[Sticks]

When you outright admit that you're just going to search for the next meta and continue being a total buzzkill that makes the game as unfun as possible for everyone else I feel like making the game as unfun as possible for you so that you quit is the best course of action as it improves the state of the game for the most amount of players. Your enjoyment shouldn't come at the expense of everyone else, and if that's the only way you can enjoy the game then you should play something else. This isn't a competitive game, stop treating it like one.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Sticks:

When you outright admit that you're just going to search for the next meta and continue being a total buzzkill that makes the game as unfun as possible for everyone else I feel like making the game as unfun as possible for you so that you quit is the best course of action as it improves the state of the game for the most amount of players. Your enjoyment shouldn't come at the expense of everyone else, and if that's the only way you can enjoy the game then you should play something else. This isn't a competitive game, stop treating it like one.

Steam Discussions never change. Next time I'll remember not to engage with you people after the initial post.

The delay to heavy punch inputs is not fun. Period. I don't care if heavy punch is shifted out of the meta. They've worked towards that with increases to stamina consumption and increasing the delay between heavy punches. I don't care about that. I care that it feels unfun to use the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ thing. You made it about meta in the first place. And I gave my rebuttal because it seemed to be what YOU'RE concerned about. Not once in my initial post did I mention anything about it. My goal isn't to "chase meta" and "be a buzz kill". I'm trying to have fun here. If I just wanted to chase meta, I'd be joining the legions of braindead dropkickers enjoying the new giant kick hitboxes. But I'm not. Because I don't enjoy that at all, and I'm trying to have fun. ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ sue me for being good at it in the process.

And another thing, my enjoyment of the game doesn't have to come at the expense of everyone else. If someone is so ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ bothered about getting punched and thrown like you are, then they should probably just get over it like a well-adjusted, normal person. They're the ones treating it like a competitive game if they care so much about losing. And I literally just told you: I take no pleasure in dominating lobbies. However the ♥♥♥♥ you arrived at the conclusion that I can only enjoy the game by making others miserable is beyond me.

[Phazonar]

tbh I think I'd prefer if they made instant heavy punches cost more stamina like they did with combo moves.

[TrueEvil]

Originally posted by Phazonar:

tbh I think I'd prefer if they made instant heavy punches cost more stamina like they did with combo moves.

I could tolerate that. I think that with the current state of dropkicks, heavy punch really doesn't need any additional penalties compared to its prior state, but I'd be willing to take a compromise there. Probably doesn't need its stamina cost quadrupled like fling got, though.

[Trax]

Yeah half the time i try to heavy punch i just end up flopping my arms around and it's really annoying