What... is going on right now?

[Lord McSmith]

To get it out of the way: I haven't played the game, and probably won't. I had heard that it was highly anticipated, and was surprised to see mixed reviews on the store page, so I came to the forum to see what the discussion was like. And maybe I'm old, but for as long as I've been gaming, I've never seen so many people defending live-service features and microtransactions in one place.

Now, before you jump down my throat -- I'm not upset at anyone who liked the game; I'm just trying to make a point. If you bought the game, that's fine. If you enjoyed the game, I'm happy for you. You should be allowed to play what you want.

Understand, though, that those design choices are limitations, unequivocally. They put players' access to the game in the hands of external parties and artificially inflate the value of digital goods. And we know they're limitations because for decades, games were built to at least the same quality standards without them. Games aren't better or worse for implementing them, only less versatile. For any live-service game, an identical game which still had offline functionality and which didn't charge for unlockable content would be objectively better. And it's perfectly reasonable to be disappointed when a game you've looked forward to ends up having those issues in it.

Again, if you don't feel like those issues affect you personally, fine. What baffles me is people who pretend there's nothing to be put off by here -- people who act like it's somehow wrong to criticize a game for having live-service features and microtransactions in it, or who say that the resulting negative reviews are somehow disingenuous. Are gamers so conditioned by modern game design that they'll go to bat for developers when they put these restrictions in their games? I wasn't ready to believe it until I saw it. I mean, how disconnected from reality do you have to be to defend a game for offering you fewer choices when it could just as easily offer you more?

I'm not the rant-y type, but this was like walking into a Twilight Zone episode. It just doesn't make sense to me why anyone would look down on someone else for saying they would rather have a game they could play both online and offline. One of the core reasons why Steam aggregates reviews is to help encourage developers to do better. Play the game for as long as you enjoy it, sure, but don't disparage other gamers for demanding more.

[WOKEGOD]

tldr: another ranting post but at least op being civilized

[Big Sloppie]

Poor OP. Doesn't realize he's arguing against a brick wall which is built with defenders of the indefensible.

[Filiope]

I was also shocked to see alot of defenders of these practices.

I was gonna buy the game, but when I saw that the game had micro transactions and specially lootboxes, I just saved my Money and bought Cassete Beasts instead.

I can't believe how many people ate saying this is okay. It's not. The game looks very fun, but everything else is just bad.

Let's not forget that the main target is kids. And yes parents have to be careful and not let their kids do gambling in this game but that does not excuse the developers for making it in the first place.

Imagine if IRL someone made a Casino for kids. Parents should not let their kids go there obviously, but are you people gonna say it's okay for that casino to exist?

[Kickfister]

Thanks for making this post cause I felt exactly the same way. This release felt like a tipping point in the greater discussion of live service games (that are unnecessarily live service) and DRM, and it made me feel incredibly sad that people are just...okay with this now. There's really only a few possibilities:

A.) They're young and it's all they've known and will realize this stuff matters when they get older and can't revisit stuff they loved.
B.) They consider video games as expendable entertainment completely bereft of any cultural value and therefore do not care that it can be arbitrarily lost to time.
C.) They're trolling.
D.) They're actually just dumb and don't get the problem.

[^7ppp^5a^6u^5l^5i^6e^7lul]

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

[Filiope]

Originally posted by ^3P^5P^6P^3AULIE:

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

Thats not steam's job, but it would be nice, but for that playstation and Xbox and Nintendo would have to do the same

And yes live service is a good idea on paper, but the problem is how it's used nowadays

[Sol4rSky]

Originally posted by Filiope:

I was also shocked to see alot of defenders of these practices.

I was gonna buy the game, but when I saw that the game had micro transactions and specially lootboxes, I just saved my Money and bought Cassete Beasts instead.

I can't believe how many people ate saying this is okay. It's not. The game looks very fun, but everything else is just bad.

Let's not forget that the main target is kids. And yes parents have to be careful and not let their kids do gambling in this game but that does not excuse the developers for making it in the first place.

Imagine if IRL someone made a Casino for kids. Parents should not let their kids go there obviously, but are you people gonna say it's okay for that casino to exist?

Are you still living in 2019? There are greater things to cry about that's being done to our games online, like wokeism.

This game is literally Fortnite / Fallguys style when it comes to monetization. Aka all you get, is SKINS. None affect the game. It's not even predatory like a GACHA game where you actually get POWER by gambling away. This is just a fun egg system that gives you random skin drops based on chance, the same way CS:GO crates work. Sure it might look predatory, but go take it with CS:GO first and other such games.

[level94836]

bump

[Sol4rSky]

Originally posted by ^3P^5P^6P^3AULIE:

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

I'm sick entire of people whining about this. Literally, all you can do is worry bout the future. Game is 19 euros dude, this game will last minimum 5 years down the line due to its design. (Fallguys is still kicking) and I find this game more fun in terms of that.

So go ahead and enjoy the moment, stop worrying about so many years down the line. THere's games who died off at one point and patched it to work offline. I am sure this game will do that since it already has BOTS and a "Custom" mode that's literally like playing OFFLINE minimum the internet connection, which you'd have on regardless if the game were offline or not.

If this game provides you with 3 years of content and fun and "suddenly dies off" even though that's not the case, then your 19 euros were well spent innit now? Go take it to mcdonalds that you ♥♥♥♥ their expensive crap food the next day and it doesn't stay with you forever.

[Filiope]

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

Originally posted by Filiope:

I was also shocked to see alot of defenders of these practices.

I was gonna buy the game, but when I saw that the game had micro transactions and specially lootboxes, I just saved my Money and bought Cassete Beasts instead.

I can't believe how many people ate saying this is okay. It's not. The game looks very fun, but everything else is just bad.

Let's not forget that the main target is kids. And yes parents have to be careful and not let their kids do gambling in this game but that does not excuse the developers for making it in the first place.

Imagine if IRL someone made a Casino for kids. Parents should not let their kids go there obviously, but are you people gonna say it's okay for that casino to exist?

Are you still living in 2019? There are greater things to cry about that's being done to our games online, like wokeism.

This game is literally Fortnite / Fallguys style when it comes to monetization. Aka all you get, is SKINS. None affect the game. It's not even predatory like a GACHA game where you actually get POWER by gambling away. This is just a fun egg system that gives you random skin drops based on chance, the same way CS:GO crates work. Sure it might look predatory, but go take it with CS:GO first and other such games.

What do you mean? In 2019 there were plenty of live service games... Hell before 2019 there were even more live service games that got shutdown, there were more always online games before 2019 than after it! XD
You really think I don't have a problem with other games doing this? Of course I have.
It doesn't make sense for this game to be this heavily monetized and having no offline mode, this is a PARTY game after all and it's a PAID game not free.
And there's a difference between this and CS:GO, this is marketed for children and CS:GO isn't. It's not okay for CS to have lootboxes.
But being marketed to children makes it even worse.

"Wokeism" is not as aggressive in games than it is in movies... I can count on one hand the amount of games that were very aggressive on pushing agendas like that.
And saying that it's worse than lootboxes is just wrong...

The game itself is fun like I said, everything else is just scummy.

[Mittens]

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

Originally posted by Filiope:

I was also shocked to see alot of defenders of these practices.

I was gonna buy the game, but when I saw that the game had micro transactions and specially lootboxes, I just saved my Money and bought Cassete Beasts instead.

I can't believe how many people ate saying this is okay. It's not. The game looks very fun, but everything else is just bad.

Let's not forget that the main target is kids. And yes parents have to be careful and not let their kids do gambling in this game but that does not excuse the developers for making it in the first place.

Imagine if IRL someone made a Casino for kids. Parents should not let their kids go there obviously, but are you people gonna say it's okay for that casino to exist?

Are you still living in 2019? There are greater things to cry about that's being done to our games online, like wokeism.

This game is literally Fortnite / Fallguys style when it comes to monetization. Aka all you get, is SKINS. None affect the game. It's not even predatory like a GACHA game where you actually get POWER by gambling away. This is just a fun egg system that gives you random skin drops based on chance, the same way CS:GO crates work. Sure it might look predatory, but go take it with CS:GO first and other such games.

There's no such thing as "wokeism"

[Doktor Mandrake]

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

Originally posted by ^3P^5P^6P^3AULIE:

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

I'm sick entire of people whining about this. Literally, all you can do is worry bout the future. Game is 19 euros dude, this game will last minimum 5 years down the line due to its design. (Fallguys is still kicking) and I find this game more fun in terms of that.

So go ahead and enjoy the moment, stop worrying about so many years down the line. THere's games who died off at one point and patched it to work offline. I am sure this game will do that since it already has BOTS and a "Custom" mode that's literally like playing OFFLINE minimum the internet connection, which you'd have on regardless if the game were offline or not.

If this game provides you with 3 years of content and fun and "suddenly dies off" even though that's not the case, then your 19 euros were well spent innit now? Go take it to mcdonalds that you ♥♥♥♥ their expensive crap food the next day and it doesn't stay with you forever.

How can you guarantee 5 years when there's games that barely survived a year?

[RetroJeff83]

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

Originally posted by ^3P^5P^6P^3AULIE:

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

I'm sick entire of people whining about this. Literally, all you can do is worry bout the future. Game is 19 euros dude, this game will last minimum 5 years down the line due to its design. (Fallguys is still kicking) and I find this game more fun in terms of that.

So go ahead and enjoy the moment, stop worrying about so many years down the line. THere's games who died off at one point and patched it to work offline. I am sure this game will do that since it already has BOTS and a "Custom" mode that's literally like playing OFFLINE minimum the internet connection, which you'd have on regardless if the game were offline or not.

If this game provides you with 3 years of content and fun and "suddenly dies off" even though that's not the case, then your 19 euros were well spent innit now? Go take it to mcdonalds that you ♥♥♥♥ their expensive crap food the next day and it doesn't stay with you forever.

You can always spot the young kids from a mile away. Imagine if all those really cool games from the 90's just weren't accessible anymore for some arbitrary reason, or is your argument that those games are old and who cares, who's playing them? lol

[Filiope]

Originally posted by RetroJeff83:

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

I'm sick entire of people whining about this. Literally, all you can do is worry bout the future. Game is 19 euros dude, this game will last minimum 5 years down the line due to its design. (Fallguys is still kicking) and I find this game more fun in terms of that.

So go ahead and enjoy the moment, stop worrying about so many years down the line. THere's games who died off at one point and patched it to work offline. I am sure this game will do that since it already has BOTS and a "Custom" mode that's literally like playing OFFLINE minimum the internet connection, which you'd have on regardless if the game were offline or not.

If this game provides you with 3 years of content and fun and "suddenly dies off" even though that's not the case, then your 19 euros were well spent innit now? Go take it to mcdonalds that you ♥♥♥♥ their expensive crap food the next day and it doesn't stay with you forever.

You can always spot the young kids from a mile away. Imagine if all those really cool games from the 90's just weren't accessible anymore for some arbitrary reason, or is your argument that those games are old and who cares, who's playing them? lol

Couldn't agree more

[^7ppp^5a^6u^5l^5i^6e^7lul]

Originally posted by Cl3arSky:

Originally posted by ^3P^5P^6P^3AULIE:

i mean, live services aren't JUST bad, right? it keeps a game alive with content etc to lure in some cash for their COSMETICS shop, which doesn't really hurt anyone.

but steam should really enforce something to let costumers keep a playable version of any game if those live services shut down. I've read a few times that there are cases where games went unplayable after the shutdown, but i did not doublecheck that so far.

I'm sick entire of people whining about this. Literally, all you can do is worry bout the future. Game is 19 euros dude, this game will last minimum 5 years down the line due to its design. (Fallguys is still kicking) and I find this game more fun in terms of that.

So go ahead and enjoy the moment, stop worrying about so many years down the line. THere's games who died off at one point and patched it to work offline. I am sure this game will do that since it already has BOTS and a "Custom" mode that's literally like playing OFFLINE minimum the internet connection, which you'd have on regardless if the game were offline or not.

If this game provides you with 3 years of content and fun and "suddenly dies off" even though that's not the case, then your 19 euros were well spent innit now? Go take it to mcdonalds that you ♥♥♥♥ their expensive crap food the next day and it doesn't stay with you forever.

There's a border being crossed for years now what it means to "possess" a game. It's totally justified to call out a certain shift in the gaming market, if it is introducing a new standard for prices or how gamers are "possessing" their games - see cloud-gaming for instance, but that's its own can of worms, its not too dissimilar to this issue tho.

Just attacking people complaining here that it is "JUST 10 BUCKS MORE DUDE" or "WHO CARES DUDE, EVERYBODY HAS ONLINE DUDE" is too shortsighted, because it ignores that those little steps in a direction really do matter and will make a change that the consumer most likely benefits the least from, quite the opposite.

If you don't care about this it's okay, but people should stop with this NPC nonsense of "iT's NoT aN IsSuE", when it is.