Befriending the dragon

[Aeralis]

I was curious why the Full House achievement wasn't popping and I found out that you're able to befriend the dragon and you have to do so by repeatedly talking to him with different heirs on the same run. (And this might even be a requirement for the true ending?)

So, um... Feedback for the devs I guess... This is really stupid. I have no reason to think this is even possible to do, since this mechanic is otherwise restricted to characters on the Docks. (Not even ones in the house, just strictly the ones on the Docks themselves.) Nobody else needs to be befriended in one Thread. This has to be done in a period of time where you're only going to be dying to the final boss, and retrying that fight doesn't even require reentering the kingdom at all, let alone doing anything in the Dry Lake. The only real way to even do this is to defeat Tubal, stop everything you're doing, and repeatedly retire heirs on a locked down kingdom.

Please change this, because it is really, truly dumb.

[Nightshade]

Agree to disagree. I find it unique and interesting. I immediately figured out you could pet the dragon, so learning you can befriend it isn't so surprising. (Quite frankly, I wish there were more things like this to add some flavor to 'the map'... Well, flavor that isn't there to kill you.)

(And while it's entirely beside the point, you can obviously defeat the Estuaries in any order you like (at least in every NG+), so 'how much is left' is really up to you. As someone who doesn't play the game by simply pounding my head against 'the next boss,' but goes on runs to collect money and resources, the idea of greeting the dragon multiple times is far from crazy.)

[Amble]

Agreed. Every other character can be befriended by just talking to them whenever they've got a new dialogue icon, meanwhile the dragon has no such icon, says the same thing every single time, and you're somehow expected to know to talk to him repeatedly in one cycle. Why would anyone even go back to his room after seeing that he only has one set of dialogue?

I can only assume this is a bug.

[DirtyMick]

Originally posted by Nightshade:

Agree to disagree. I find it unique and interesting. I immediately figured out you could pet the dragon, so learning you can befriend it isn't so surprising. (Quite frankly, I wish there were more things like this to add some flavor to 'the map'... Well, flavor that isn't there to kill you.)

(And while it's entirely beside the point, you can obviously defeat the Estuaries in any order you like (at least in every NG+), so 'how much is left' is really up to you. As someone who doesn't play the game by simply pounding my head against 'the next boss,' but goes on runs to collect money and resources, the idea of greeting the dragon multiple times is far from crazy.)

Yeah but why would it all be required on the same thread, you know? Seems like an arbitrary requirement that would prevent anyone from getting this achievement without looking up how to do it. Like I could see eventually getting it after several playthroughs, but all in one thread? It's not a big deal, its just an achievement, it's not like we're calling the game bad because of it. So if you're just defending it cuz you like the game, you don't need to lol.

[Nightshade]

Originally posted by Turret Syndrome:

Originally posted by Nightshade:

Agree to disagree. I find it unique and interesting. I immediately figured out you could pet the dragon, so learning you can befriend it isn't so surprising. (Quite frankly, I wish there were more things like this to add some flavor to 'the map'... Well, flavor that isn't there to kill you.)

(And while it's entirely beside the point, you can obviously defeat the Estuaries in any order you like (at least in every NG+), so 'how much is left' is really up to you. As someone who doesn't play the game by simply pounding my head against 'the next boss,' but goes on runs to collect money and resources, the idea of greeting the dragon multiple times is far from crazy.)

Yeah but why would it all be required on the same thread, you know? Seems like an arbitrary requirement that would prevent anyone from getting this achievement without looking up how to do it. Like I could see eventually getting it after several playthroughs, but all in one thread? It's not a big deal, its just an achievement, it's not like we're calling the game bad because of it. So if you're just defending it cuz you like the game, you don't need to lol.

A fair point, having it reset every thread does obscure it unnecessarily. Will have to wait 'til I actually do it to see how much it actually bothers me. (It strikes me as a minor inconvenience, but to be perfectly honest, I'm just feeling good in general at the moment, so... whatever makes everyone happy, I guess. 😋)

[Aeralis]

Yeah, its definitely an inconvenience at the most, and is ultimately not that big of a deal. But my big problem with it is how there is absolutely no indication at all that this even works AND it ties into getting the true ending. If I hadn't looked this up outside of the game I would have never known to do it.

[Xaneorath]

Hmm, as much as I saw it in my playthrough he does always say something different, adding to the story. So I regularly checked in on him, when I reached Phishon with one of my heirs.

I only recently reached NG+1, so I wasnt there yet to confirm if his dialogue resets. But I can definitly imagine myself still checking him out regularly in one Thread after realizing this happens, just to get the full lore.
Of course, now that I spoiled the secret for me with this discussion board threat its hard to tell, how I wouldve acted without knowledge of it. But knowing myself I would probably have stumbled on it.

Considering more obscure triggers to (true) endings, which need more exploration/consideration:
Im totaly for such things and wouldnt call it a bug. I dont think Im far enough into the lore to decide if he should remember things between loops ... but Id certainly say its plausible the dialogue resets, since you encounter this version of him for the first time. Same as with Jonah.
Not everything has to be streamlined in a way, that the normal game loop just reaches everything eventualy... its nice to have some hidden details once in a while, which you can only find by thinking out of the box a bit more. And things which may seem strange from a completly logical/technical point of view, but may have so much meaning from a storytelling or artistic point of view can add a lot to a games overall meaning.
And if you are really unhappy with an ending, you might explore around more, in hopes there are such secrets (or just stumble upon it in the internet ... ), where its a nice experience IF there is indeed some hidden way to change the outcome further.
I played quite a few games which offered me such an experience in my past, and Im happy about it. :)

[brickey.8]

I guess I just spoiled it for myself by reading this thread. The fact that this requires visiting the dragon after beating him seems reasonable, but the fact that this resets when you advance to a new NG+ thread is kinda stupid. Not resetting anything except the bosses and teleporters, and letting all other forms of progress build up, is a very good design philosophy (and also, you know, is what the game explicitly says it's doing). So why introduce this thing that breaks that pattern while also requiring you to go way out of your way on several runs?

[Xaneorath]

Originally posted by brickey.8:

I guess I just spoiled it for myself by reading this thread. The fact that this requires visiting the dragon after beating him seems reasonable, but the fact that this resets when you advance to a new NG+ thread is kinda stupid. Not resetting anything except the bosses and teleporters, and letting all other forms of progress build up, is a very good design philosophy (and also, you know, is what the game explicitly says it's doing). So why introduce this thing that breaks that pattern while also requiring you to go way out of your way on several runs?

Meaning in the story?

As I said in my previous post: im not far enough into the lore to know if those who arent saved by the Castle and taken to another thread should keep their memories intact. The meetings with Jonah seems to indicate how they dont keep their memories.
So from a perspective of a wholesome story it sounds like a legit thing to do.

Not to mention its another interesting meaning if, to break out of the cycle, you have to do something you wouldnt usualy do in the cycle, hm?

Anyhow. Still just in the beginning of NG1+, but thats some reasons I might imagine, which arent "stupid" at all, but actualy quite smart.

[Derpykat5]

The fact that you have to do it over a single thread and you have to go back through one of the hardest areas in the game, which you usually do last, on subsequent runs does make it a bit frustrating.

[Zarcos]

You 100% do not need to talk to the dragon on the same run/thread in order to befriend the dragon? This is a myth that many continue to promote despite it not being true. When I fiirst saw a similar comment I thought I would go ahead and lock the world and then befriend him. Turns out when I did it around NG5 or so, I only had to talk with him with 2 other classes before he gave me the souls, far from all 15 classes (because I had already talked with him so many times with other classes in other threads before I started this process).

[Amble]

Originally posted by Zarcos:

You 100% do not need to talk to the dragon on the same run/thread in order to befriend the dragon? This is a myth that many continue to promote despite it not being true. When I fiirst saw a similar comment I thought I would go ahead and lock the world and then befriend him. Turns out when I did it around NG5 or so, I only had to talk with him with 2 other classes before he gave me the souls, far from all 15 classes (because I had already talked with him so many times with other classes in other threads before I started this process).

I did 19 NG+ cycles never seeing a single bit of new dialogue for him and only yesterday did I retire my hero, lock down my world and talk to him 6 times or so to get the new dialogue and friendship. It was never going to happen if I kept progressing threads like normal.

Are you sure you didn't just end up talking to him multiple times in an earlier thread and already had his dialogue somewhat progressed?

[Pumpkinreaper]

It'd be nice if he woke back up whenever you do a screen transition, or even quitting to the menu and reloading the game.

[Giffsen]

Originally posted by Aeralis:

I was curious why the Full House achievement wasn't popping and I found out that you're able to befriend the dragon and you have to do so by repeatedly talking to him with different heirs on the same run. (And this might even be a requirement for the true ending?)

So, um... Feedback for the devs I guess... This is really stupid. I have no reason to think this is even possible to do, since this mechanic is otherwise restricted to characters on the Docks. (Not even ones in the house, just strictly the ones on the Docks themselves.) Nobody else needs to be befriended in one Thread. This has to be done in a period of time where you're only going to be dying to the final boss, and retrying that fight doesn't even require reentering the kingdom at all, let alone doing anything in the Dry Lake. The only real way to even do this is to defeat Tubal, stop everything you're doing, and repeatedly retire heirs on a locked down kingdom.

Please change this, because it is really, truly dumb.

skill issue tbh

[Derpykat5]

Originally posted by Giffsen:

Originally posted by Aeralis:

I was curious why the Full House achievement wasn't popping and I found out that you're able to befriend the dragon and you have to do so by repeatedly talking to him with different heirs on the same run. (And this might even be a requirement for the true ending?)

So, um... Feedback for the devs I guess... This is really stupid. I have no reason to think this is even possible to do, since this mechanic is otherwise restricted to characters on the Docks. (Not even ones in the house, just strictly the ones on the Docks themselves.) Nobody else needs to be befriended in one Thread. This has to be done in a period of time where you're only going to be dying to the final boss, and retrying that fight doesn't even require reentering the kingdom at all, let alone doing anything in the Dry Lake. The only real way to even do this is to defeat Tubal, stop everything you're doing, and repeatedly retire heirs on a locked down kingdom.

Please change this, because it is really, truly dumb.

skill issue tbh

Congratulations, you necro'd a 1 year old thread just to add nothing to the discussion.

[IntegrityConstraintViolation]

I somehow have the issue that even in a new thread and when I kill no other boss before Tubal the dragon just falls asleep and does not talk. How can I fix this? I am currently at new game 3+. Is this a bug or am I doing something wrong?