Wrong damage tooltip? And not enough max mana.

[RoseOfShadows707]

Ok, so these two things might not be bugs (I don´t know), but are so, so annoying.

1) I was a "vampire" character. Lifesteal and +150% damage taken. So far so good. Then I found one of those "apples" that either heals you or increases your max HP for some dmg taken. I don´t remember the exact number, but it wasn´t much, but because I had the "take more damage" character ("works" with relics too), I took much more damage and almost died.
I understand taking more damage, but the tooltip lying to you is just unfair.

2) Had a trait that doubles your mana costs (and damage). On a barbarian. Okay. I also had a gravity beam spell. (I knew it was expensive, but I wanted to see what would happen.)
So, I had 100 max mana, and a spell that cost 200 mana to cast.
Sure, I could still hit things with axe, but that other part of gameplay was now useless.
Intentional?

PS for 2) I know you can increase max man with runes and relics, but something just seems off to me about starting with an ability you cant use.

[Bad Aim Bodyshot Barry]

1: vampire affects all dmg, the tooltip literally says +150% taken and 20% lifesteal (the devs have stated this is intentional, and the tooltip does say 150% dmg and the apple does do dmg so)
2: i have no clue, i assume its because mutually exclusive traits are not a thing yet but this might be intentional if not weird

[RoseOfShadows707]

To clarify 1) I am okay with taking damage, but (for example) the apple said "take 100 dmg and increase max HP by X"
But I took the +150%, so 250 dmg.
Luckily, I had enough health, but I could have easily died due to misinformation. I just wish I didn´t always have to remember to do math when dealing with that.

[Rhadamante]

For 1) I had the same problem (and also did a report) with the serrated handle bargain relic (which makes you take 100% more damage). The reason it's a problem is simple:
when you see the tooltip, why wouldn't you assume the value has been corrected ?

When you get hurt by monsters, the corrected value is shown, you don't have any maths to do, why should you suddenly on this tooltip ? So you assume it's correct and get rekt.

Imho, the tooltip should show the actual damage you're going to receive or at least mention it doesn't take modifier in consideration.

For 2) imho, it's ok. it's a rare enough situation and it's up to you to choose your heir carefully. Choosing one that can't use spells at first is no different than choosing one with a bad trait. And you can always deal with that problem later with relics or curio shoppes.

[gruetoo]

one time I got an heir with the dies in one hit trait, as well as the relic that extends invulnerability frames on hit. completely anti-synergistic, but that is what the other choices are for. you don't have to play it if you don't want to. and if you are starting out and had the effects hidden until after selection? laugh off the improbability and prepare for a shorter run than you were expecting. This is a multi-generational rougelite, every run doesn't have to be amazing.

[Agent_Rete]

The apple issue is a complicated one to resolve. Enemies deal a set amount of damage to the player, and then that damage gets modified by all the bells and whistles that are attached to you. So enemies actually think they'll deal 30 to you, but then when you get hit it'll update correctly to be 50 or whatever.

If we implemented the RL1 thing where you could pause the game and see enemy stats, you'd run into the same issue as the apple of enemies showing misleading stats.

So, at the moment, apples are working ok (even if it's a bit blindsidey). We might change the apple thing to correctly display the info in the future, but it's lower on our priority list.

[Rhadamante]

Originally posted by Agent_Rete:

The apple issue is a complicated one to resolve. Enemies deal a set amount of damage to the player, and then that damage gets modified by all the bells and whistles that are attached to you. So enemies actually think they'll deal 30 to you, but then when you get hit it'll update correctly to be 50 or whatever.

If we implemented the RL1 thing where you could pause the game and see enemy stats, you'd run into the same issue as the apple of enemies showing misleading stats.

So, at the moment, apples are working ok (even if it's a bit blindsidey). We might change the apple thing to correctly display the info in the future, but it's lower on our priority list.

In the meantime do you think it could be possible to add some kind of heads-up, like saying "base damage" or "before modifiers" or something ? It's definitely no that important right now, but it might save a soul or two.