Thoughts on RL2 (so far) from a long-time fan of RL1 (no spoilers)

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PeterRegg

Nov 11, 2020 @ 12:02pm

Thoughts on RL2 (so far) from a long-time fan of RL1 (no spoilers)

Background:

I played the original Rogue Legacy a LOT. I got all of the steam achievements for the game when it first came out, then years later platinumed it on PS4, and then also beat it on the Switch (because why not). I love that game, to say the least. I was never big into the super endgame play, and I usually stopped after completing the main game and unlocking all of the achievements.

Initial thoughts on Rogue Legacy 2:

I’m going to break this into a couple categories:

Things that I really like
Things that I really don’t like
Things that are pretty cool
Things that are pretty annoying

Things that I really like:

Classes - they’re now different enough that you have to adopt a completely different playstyle to use. I think this is a great idea. Coupled with the xp you can earn for each class, it gives you a reason to try out as many classes as you can (something that wasn't so true in RL1). I never feel like I’m wasting a run with a class I’m not familiar or skilled with, since the stat boost you get from leveling them up seems worth it.

Relics (the ones you start with) - I think these are fun new quirks that make character selection more interesting. I like the idea of having a random bonus at the outset.

Gold multipliers for bad traits - I think this is a fun way to make rolling those horrible traits worth it. If you’re born a vegan and can’t heal as you normally would, you’re compensated with +60% gold for what will most certainly be a shorter run. I think this was a great idea all around.

Things that I really don’t like:

Upgrade costs - this was my biggest grievance with the original Rogue Legacy, and it feels even worse now (though maybe it’s a balancing thing that will be worked out). In most games, it’s typical for each subsequent level of an upgrade to cost more, and I have no problem with that idea. But in Rogue Legacy, each upgrade you purchase makes every other upgrade go up in price as well. So if I want to put a point into armor, it’s going to make health/attack/magic/etc go up in price. Fine. It makes it so you have to be careful with what you spend your gold on. I get it. But couple that with the fact that you have to give up all of your gold to Charon when you start a new run, it essentially forces you to spend all of your remaining gold each run on cheap upgrades you’ve been avoiding. This wouldn’t normally be an issue, but the fact that when you go and purchase something you don’t need at the time (say, capacity to carry more equipment weight, etc), it’s going to make the things you actually want to buy go up in price. So unless you’re willing to forfeit all (or at least most) of your gold to Charon to keep the price of your favorite upgrades from inflating too much, you’re just making it harder to save up enough money to buy those better upgrades.

What this essentially does is force the player to decide early which upgrades they want and to stick to just upgrading those. It penalizes players who want to have a well rounded skill tree and play multiple character types. In the original, I would always focus on attack power and health, and then just reroll until I got a Paladin, Barbarian, or Shinobi. Every point I put into magic or mana would just stunt my attack/health growth (sorry Mage and Spellthief), and the same for crit chance and crit damage (sorry Knave). And since RL2 has made the different classes so much more fun to play, it's sad that pigeon-holing myself into a specific playstyle is the overwhelmingly more efficient way to play the game, rather than just casually throwing around upgrades for whichever class I want to play that day.

I think a better way to handle the inflation of certain upgrades is to just have them cost a certain amount that doesn’t depend on how many other traits you’ve upgraded. I’d rather them cost exponentially more per level of a certain upgrade, so at least I don’t feel like I’m penalizing myself by putting a little bit of money into mana or crit damage because it’s all I can afford.

Relics (the kind you stumble across during playthrough, not the ones you’re born with) - so I really like the idea of these. If you find the right chamber, you get to choose between two “upgrades” that can help you through the rest of your run. Fans of rogue-like games will be familiar with these. The issue I have with the ones in this game is that most of them require you to give up some of your max health, which is pretty important. I’d be fine if this was the only thing you have to give up, but most of the relics already come with a “downside” to them. For example, there’s a relic that makes you hit 2x harder, but it gives your basic attack a 2 second cool down. That’s already quite the trade off, but then on top of that, you still have to sacrifice a hefty portion of your max health to obtain it. I find myself skipping most of these relics, save for a few that are actually worth it, if only barely.

Things that are pretty cool:

The baddies - I generally like the designs and feel like they fit the theme well.

Mini bosses - I like that they drop a currency separate from gold, which incentivizes players to not only defeat them when you stumble across them, but to also seek them out.

Recovery jump - I like that this saves you from being unable to move after being hit and sometimes falling a ridiculous length (I do NOT, however, like the default setting that slows down the game every time you’re hit. I’m glad you’re able to turn this off

Status effects - I think this added element only adds to the game.

Hazards - I like how the gas shoots out before the flames, and I like the new breakable thorn hazard.

Down-hit-jump-thing - feels pretty smooth, and I think it’s a lot easier to hit than the down attack in the last game.

Things that are pretty annoying:

When buying upgrades, it’s not immediately apparent to me how much of my gold comes from my previous run and how much comes from the safe. I feel like the current gold you can spend should be broken into those two groups, and not just shown as the total, though maybe I'm just missing something obvious?

When gold falls on spikes :( maybe this is just a me-thing, but it’s disappointing when you’re expertly fighting baddies in mid air on disappearing platforms and whatnot, and their gold drops end up falling onto spikes. I usually just dodge around them in these situations since the gold will go to waste anyways, which isn’t fun. (Another thought I had was to make a relic that auto collects gold - or some kind of magnetized birth defect? - could be a fun touch?)

It’s possible to get the same relic twice in the same run, but it seems like their effects don’t stack (yet you still lose some of your max hp with each transaction).
(edit: it looks like I was mistaken on this one. It seems at least some of the relics stack, which is good!)

Final thoughts:

I really do like this game and I'm really excited to see what future updates bring us. I wanted to share my two cents on how I feel about gameplay for now, in case Cellar Door happens to read this. I would love to hear if other people have similar thoughts and opinions (especially regarding the upgrading system), and I'll be sure to update my thoughts as I continue to play!

Pete

Last edited by PeterRegg; Nov 12, 2020 @ 12:58pm

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Showing 1-6 of 6 comments

Rhadamante has Rogue Legacy 2

Nov 12, 2020 @ 5:31am

Some relics definitely stack, threads have been made about that. Hyperion's ring and Icarus' wings definitely do, I can personally attest of that. I'm trying to test others but I have to wait for RNG to give me testable duplicate relics (hard to test the % based ones for ex).

Relics will be re-worked, that's certain. Many people like you avoided them because of the steep max hp price, which wasn't the point of adding them according to the devs. They decreased the cost recently as a band-aid fix while they work on relics 2.0.
Gnawed bone is a must take, it's not barely worth it, it's definitely worth it. Unless you're at the end of your run, you will make up for the lost max hp. If you have it early, you can also pair it with the one that makes enemies drop meat, only takes a few drops to pay for itself.

Upgrade costs: the castle upkeep thing isn't a bad idea, but maybe make it more specific. Have group of upgrades that are connected by theme, where buying one increases the cost of all the other in the same group but only those.
Upgrading mind/focus shouldn't make str/dex upgrades cost more for example.
It's just a little idea I got, not really thought-out. I'm not sure how easy it would be to convey that on the castle view.

And the spin-kick is definitely way better than the down attack from the first game. Especially when you get the Echo Boots.

John Helldiver has Rogue Legacy 2

Nov 12, 2020 @ 8:30am

I can confirm that the Bargain stone, and the Magma stone stack, I can also confirm Freon's Reward, Gnawed Bone, and Body Buffet can stack also just from testing relics out.