Philo Bucheron broken?

[Neocronic]

I just get him from first 10 pulls at start of game. Instead of basic attack he store power for 3 turns then start dealing damage. But i dont know why when he at 3 stacks he deal like 900 dps max. But when he take hit from enemy when he trying to store power and counterattack he hit all enemies with 21k damage or something. Insta kill everything at screen even bosses. So i just curious this is bug or it intended and i just drop high lvl character? He have blue stars instead and something like alternative style in description, don't know what it means but he ruin whole beginner experience for me when one shot bosses)

[~FieryFox~]

its intended and hes not even high tier later released characters like him generally overwhelm all old content

[Jab]

He's not broken, that's just how the units are. This is a good game, but it is a gacha game after all, and it's like 6 years old now. This basically means that it's had 6 years of powercreep, so the early stages will feel very underwhelming if you get a newer unit. You got Philo AS (another style), which was released in 2022, so of course content from 2017/18 will not be up to par, as he is made with much newer content in mind, and he is actually one of the stronger units in the game.

If you want to have a more vanilla/harder experience, then you could just use the free characters that are available, as they are typically either weaker, or they start off weaker and get stronger as you progress. There are also plenty of old units that start off weak, but you can upgrade them later to make them stronger, as old units have been getting buffs over the years in the form of character specific weapon (manifestations) upgrades.

[Neocronic]

Originally posted by Jab:

He's not broken, that's just how the units are. This is a good game, but it is a gacha game after all, and it's like 6 years old now. This basically means that it's had 6 years of powercreep, so the early stages will feel very underwhelming if you get a newer unit. You got Philo AS (another style), which was released in 2022, so of course content from 2017/18 will not be up to par, as he is made with much newer content in mind, and he is actually one of the stronger units in the game.

If you want to have a more vanilla/harder experience, then you could just use the free characters that are available, as they are typically either weaker, or they start off weaker and get stronger as you progress. There are also plenty of old units that start off weak, but you can upgrade them later to make them stronger, as old units have been getting buffs over the years in the form of character specific weapon (manifestations) upgrades.

Thats great, but i found another way how to ruin beginners expirience and this cant be undone after that. I just try to complete tomes tutorial and beat Another dungeon once and whats you think i do? I just insta lvl up all chars, excluded philo, in my party to max lvl and philo to like 64 lvl or so. Exp rates crazy here, i kill single monster team for multiple lvl ups. And boss give me like +20 lvls instant.
After that i beat this dungeon 2 more times and now have every char i have, even which i not plan to use in near future, at max lvl or near. Philo already lvl 76/80
Plus game give me endgame gear as reward for tomes repairing, like weapons with 150 attack or bracelets with same amount of defence with +Type attack above. So i literally one shot everything in story even with Aldo.

Game should say atleast before you try to do something crazy. Something like "Man, next encounter better to do after you beat storyline once". This not fun when game skip whole purpose of gaming when you playing tutorial.

[Selchar]

You basically did that to yourself. You tried out a new character from the gacha against a boss without understanding what he was capable of. You decided to indulge in side content instead of the main story and walked into the Transitory space Another Dungeon, then after the first battle, instead of exiting said dungeon and limiting the exp you could gain, you not only completed it, but went through it again multiple times.(Exp in this dungeon is currently 10x normal, and it was already considered good before that). Also, the equipment you got from the tome? It's NOT end game gear, it just feels that way atm. The Astral tome was added relatively recently.

If you want to maintain some sort of a challenge, limit the number of characters you have in your party, you don't need to use a 6 person party. you don't need to use your "best" characters like Philo, instead use the 3/4 stars, you don't need to equip the best gear you have, you can even go without gear. You don't need to equip your characters with your best skills either. Eventually you'll hit a wall and have to start using your better stuff or play better.

You can also take the time to get more free characters from various episodes/symphonies. The Symphony characters start at level 30 and you don't HAVE to max them out right away.

[~FieryFox~]

its not really that big of a deal when you catch up storywise you can easily get stomped at max level

[WeisseningBlitz]

As someone who played the game originally at launch, I'll simply say the "intended experience" of weaker units and the gacha pool of the time was not good. After a point, you would've had to take two healers and be shuffling them in and out of the backline, often intentionally stalling fights for MP regen because skills were too MP costly and the lone food you could carry wouldn't be enough to sustain into a deeper dungeon. The additions that have come since that basically let you 0 MP AoE trash among other sustain was something desperately lacking at the time.

Inevitably, the majority of your experience is going to be at level cap, be it 60 for some characters or 80 with 5 stars. While I'm technically not against the level 100 cap they recently implemented, I am worried WFS is not going to do anything to alleviate the current grind and time gating ennui that all players will inevitably come to if they stick with the game. Characters being max level is nothing when you simply can't get the promotion materials, grasta, or other enhancement items you need to drop. Gimmick encounters are also going to feel grossly unfair if you don't have a specific unit or two that could trivialize them, particularly from Omegaopolis onward.

[Neocronic]

Originally posted by Selchar:

You basically did that to yourself. You tried out a new character from the gacha against a boss without understanding what he was capable of. You decided to indulge in side content instead of the main story and walked into the Transitory space Another Dungeon, then after the first battle, instead of exiting said dungeon and limiting the exp you could gain, you not only completed it, but went through it again multiple times.(Exp in this dungeon is currently 10x normal, and it was already considered good before that). Also, the equipment you got from the tome? It's NOT end game gear, it just feels that way atm. The Astral tome was added relatively recently.

If you want to maintain some sort of a challenge, limit the number of characters you have in your party, you don't need to use a 6 person party. you don't need to use your "best" characters like Philo, instead use the 3/4 stars, you don't need to equip the best gear you have, you can even go without gear. You don't need to equip your characters with your best skills either. Eventually you'll hit a wall and have to start using your better stuff or play better.

You can also take the time to get more free characters from various episodes/symphonies. The Symphony characters start at level 30 and you don't HAVE to max them out right away.

Its same like saying you can feel difficulty and better gameplay in dark souls only if you start as Deprived and then not pick up any weapons except starting one and not equip any gear and not use dodge and potions at all. This will be good for any veteran players, but when you playing first time you just take everything game gives you, even when you start thinking its wrong, but you still take it because why not?

Same situation here, game saying you should be 25 lvl with Aldo, Riica, Cyrus and other guys for tomes reparing. But i have then unequipped before my first another dungeon try. So i equip them just to earn exp, but its leave me with thats fact i accept skipping all grinds in this game.

First and foremost devs should exclude endgame content like these dungeons. (these really give you nothing except exp, because grind is real here and you need beat dungeon 100+ times for any hero upgrade). You start storyline, why you should stop in middle to learn about stuff thats only useful at endgame?

And secondly if they add Gacha elements they should balance it for ALL existing content, not just for latest one. You allow any players roll any character at any time and then how you suppose to save difficulty in campaing for newbies? I know its hard, but you can either lock gacha till newbie finish story or you can lock OP chars by higher chapters in storyline.

Devs saying you can beat game literally with only starter heroes. But in first hour of playing they ask you to roll gacha or you will be stuck forever here, because its not skipable action.

Its not bad game, its devs with bad decisions thats ruin everything. You cant just start game and enjoy it, you should read a lot of new player tips and wiki before even starting or you will end up like me, ruin everything without chance to return back. And more you play more bad decisions you unlock. Like for example i unlock some time limited encounters, like new ones in latest patch, thats only lasts week or 10 days, so you cant just skip it, YOU SHOULD PULL GACHAS or you will lose your best time to do it. And whats best way to earn enough currency for these? Bingo, you should skip content as fast as you can, because it give you currency for this limited gacha.

[Selchar]

As I said, you did it to yourself. You entered the Transitory Space AD(exp version) of your own free will. After the first battle you should have noticed the abnormal exp, which as I said is currently 10x what it normally is in there, something you could learn from the news button. You had the option to stop and leave it for later, either by opening the menu and choosing to exit the dungeon, or by forcing yourself to loose a battle. Instead you decided to continue, and then repeat the same dungeon at least 3 times. You got the equivalent of 30 exp dungeon runs minimum as a result. Again, by choice. You weren't forced to do it. Are you upset you didn't stop yourself? Or are you upset that this was possible?

I gave you advice to try and restore balance, nothing more, nothing less. Not using your strongest leveled up character/gears are things people often forget they can do. I pointed out the episodes/symphonies as ways to get multiple free low level characters so that you have alternatives to work with until the levels balance themselves out, without relying on the gacha to randomly pull new ones.

The transitory dungeons aren't end game content, in fact without the 10x boost it's often ignored by people who actually are at end game, because they don't need it or have better ways to get exp without wasting AD keys. It's main purpose is to give people a boost if they feel they are stuck. Since you originally did it for the Tome Quest, after learning about the Exp you could have exited out, use a temp throwaway party to soak up the exp instead of your main one, then not touch it again until you are ready to actually level multiple characters rapidly.

Most characters have their real power locked behind their 5 star board, which themselves require you to be close to lvl 50 to reach, and one of their skills usually requires their character quest to be done first. Philo's Another Style Bucheron is a rare exception that has a powerful gimmick outside of their skill board, but even then, you made the choice to use him, and to keep using him.

Finally, the gacha should remain as is. It's introduced early on with a 4 star selector because the devs acknowledge how hard a 1 person party is. A 2 person, soon 3/4 person party with Riica/Amy evens things out. When the story takes you back down to just Aldo/Riica and your chosen 4 star, it is a choice to summon more or to keep going as is. It's even possible to just not use gacha characters at all by just not having them in your party. You choose how easy or difficult you make things with how your arrange your party. You control whether or not, or when you do or don't summon on banners.

The point I'm trying to make is, you have choices. You chose to make the game easier for yourself in the short term. I showed you choices to make the game harder again temporarily. I ask this again from my first paragraph. Are you upset that you repeatedly made a poor decision, or are you upset that it was possible in the first place?

The only thing I will concede, is that the 10x exp boost should have been limited to the red key version, since by having it apply to the green key version in combination with that tome quest existence... well this thread and 1 other on this topic exists.

[Neocronic]

Originally posted by Selchar:

As I said, you did it to yourself. You entered the Transitory Space AD(exp version) of your own free will. After the first battle you should have noticed the abnormal exp, which as I said is currently 10x what it normally is in there, something you could learn from the news button. You had the option to stop and leave it for later, either by opening the menu and choosing to exit the dungeon, or by forcing yourself to loose a battle. Instead you decided to continue, and then repeat the same dungeon at least 3 times. You got the equivalent of 30 exp dungeon runs minimum as a result. Again, by choice. You weren't forced to do it. Are you upset you didn't stop yourself? Or are you upset that this was possible?

I gave you advice to try and restore balance, nothing more, nothing less. Not using your strongest leveled up character/gears are things people often forget they can do. I pointed out the episodes/symphonies as ways to get multiple free low level characters so that you have alternatives to work with until the levels balance themselves out, without relying on the gacha to randomly pull new ones.

The transitory dungeons aren't end game content, in fact without the 10x boost it's often ignored by people who actually are at end game, because they don't need it or have better ways to get exp without wasting AD keys. It's main purpose is to give people a boost if they feel they are stuck. Since you originally did it for the Tome Quest, after learning about the Exp you could have exited out, use a temp throwaway party to soak up the exp instead of your main one, then not touch it again until you are ready to actually level multiple characters rapidly.

Most characters have their real power locked behind their 5 star board, which themselves require you to be close to lvl 50 to reach, and one of their skills usually requires their character quest to be done first. Philo's Another Style Bucheron is a rare exception that has a powerful gimmick outside of their skill board, but even then, you made the choice to use him, and to keep using him.

Finally, the gacha should remain as is. It's introduced early on with a 4 star selector because the devs acknowledge how hard a 1 person party is. A 2 person, soon 3/4 person party with Riica/Amy evens things out. When the story takes you back down to just Aldo/Riica and your chosen 4 star, it is a choice to summon more or to keep going as is. It's even possible to just not use gacha characters at all by just not having them in your party. You choose how easy or difficult you make things with how your arrange your party. You control whether or not, or when you do or don't summon on banners.

The point I'm trying to make is, you have choices. You chose to make the game easier for yourself in the short term. I showed you choices to make the game harder again temporarily. I ask this again from my first paragraph. Are you upset that you repeatedly made a poor decision, or are you upset that it was possible in the first place?

The only thing I will concede, is that the 10x exp boost should have been limited to the red key version, since by having it apply to the green key version in combination with that tome quest existence... well this thread and 1 other on this topic exists.

You like skipped half of conversation and whole point of dialogue. You says i have choise, but i havent in first run. I said it 2 times game not give you any tips or not lock you before you can enter in some x10 dungeon, game lead you to do this choice, give you tutorial to enter. And when you unlock tomes game lead you to dungeons completion. Because its fastest possible way to earn gacha currency, one repair lvl give 100 at once. One achievement if you know give you just 10. And game says, you have choice to do dungeon again for insta lvl up base chars to 25 and above for tomes or go grind it days. Whats you choose then? Especially if you not plan to use these, because you already have gacha characters in your team. And if you trying to say you can lvl up them in field, this just grind wall nothing more, you grind just for grind. Quests give pretty little exp. You can see how much time i already played in my profile and i only at chapter 13, where enemies still lvl 20-25 max. I do literally every quest i see.
Game give you so little time to roll good chars which probably will be useful for later chapters, who knows. You can skip all this gacha stuff by choice, but later when i stuck again there will be no way to roll chars except waiting months before they add additional encounters for guaranteed 5* chars.
Its not choice. Its more like you rush rn or you will regret later. And if you rush, you will have all problems i mentioned above.