Thrustmaster Warthog VS Honeycomb Yoke

[XaNiaxa]

Im very torn about which one i should get. I currently have the T16000m HOTAS (without pedals so either way i need to get pedals)
im fairly satisfied with it but comfort is an issue, its way to small for my hands.

Currently im leaning a bit to the Warthog, but would like to hear you guys opinions! suggestions other than these two are also appreciated!

[WSK3Y]

I've got the warthog. Swapped over from a saitek yoke. Never used the honeycomb one unfortunately. I'm a flight student and I really enjoy the warthog. Much better weight and feel compared to the saitek yoke. Very little dead zone as well, so you can be quite precise in your movements

[Sandhill]

A bit apple (yoke) and orange (stick) isn't it? That would make my choice between the two...
If you have driving game pedals that are stand alone usb (I don't know about pedals that have to plug into a wheel) it's easy enough to use them for rudder, a decent cash savings...

[honeyvizsla]

Originally posted by XaNiaxa:

Im very torn about which one i should get. I currently have the T16000m HOTAS (without pedals so either way i need to get pedals)
im fairly satisfied with it but comfort is an issue, its way to small for my hands.

Currently im leaning a bit to the Warthog, but would like to hear you guys opinions! suggestions other than these two are also appreciated!

I've got both plus forcefeedback and other yokes and sticks. If you're doing mostly GA flying, get the Honeycomb, best quality device under a thousand bucks. If you do mixed GA and DCS military stuff, get the Warthog.

In an ideal world you'd both. They kind of do different things. I've never flows a military jet, but have flown GA and the honeycomb is as close to real feel as you can get for the money. It's got the best build of anything I've used, including the Warthog. It looks and feels fantastic and will improve your flying because it's so much more comfortable and ergonomic to have two hands on the balanced yoke. A stick flying GA is less precise and comfortable.

Good luck with your choice. Ultimately the H and W are both fantastic products.

[AllocDK]

I've got the Warthog HOTAS, but will buy the Honeycomb yoke and throttle latere this year.

The HOTAS is amazing, but its a combat stick

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by honeyvizsla:

If you're doing mostly GA flying, get the Honeycomb, best quality device under a thousand bucks... the honeycomb is as close to real feel as you can get for the money

or maybe not...
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1250410/discussions/6/2919976282196175778/

[SuperFurrySquirrel]

An important question is how portable do you want it to be? I have a VKB Gunfighter stick and it sits on a clamp mount on my desk. My throttle is on another desk clamp mount. Now when I want to fly I move the stick to the middle between my legs (Long throw extension) and when I don't want to fly I just slide it out of the way. The throttle doesn't need to move at all.

Now if I had a yoke then I would need to move it to the desk and clamp it then plug it in then completely move it and store it if I wanted to do anything else. My Stick and throttle are great for flying and MSFS is only a game anyway so it doesn't matter to me if I use a yoke or a stick in that regard. Just something to be aware of is all.

Edit: Someone mentioned that stick is less precise than yoke and they couldn't be more wrong. My VKB is far more precise than a Honeycomb because it not only has fantastic resolution but is long throw too.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Goat Herder:

Someone mentioned that stick is less precise than yoke and they couldn't be more wrong. My VKB is far more precise than a Honeycomb because it not only has fantastic resolution but is long throw too.

Ditto for, for example, CH Fighterstick which has, I think, about the same angular throw and stick length as the VKB, although the stick extensions popular on the VKS do put it in a whole 'nother league.

[kalnaren]

Sensors are going to make the big difference there. CH stuff still uses low-resolution potentiometres. I'm not sure what the honeycomb yoke uses. VKB uses MaRS magnetic sensors (Virpil uses iGMR, Thrustmaster HALL, etc.). I think my CH stick actually has a longer throw than my Virpil WarBRD but 255 steps compared to 32,000.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by kalnaren:

Sensors are going to make the big difference there. CH stuff still uses low-resolution potentiometres. I'm not sure what the honeycomb yoke uses. VKB uses MaRS magnetic sensors (Virpil uses iGMR, Thrustmaster HALL, etc.). I think my CH stick actually has a longer throw than my Virpil WarBRD but 255 steps compared to 32,000.

Both hall and potentiometers are analog sensors, so there is no difference in resolution there although a pot might be inherently less precise. I'm not familiar with iGMR Some say pots are less durable. The difference, besides perhaps (slop) arises in the ADC used, and I imagine that if someone took the trouble to run the CH with a 12 bit ADC the steps of resolution question would no longer matter. Owning both the Virpil and CH, do you actually notice a difference, and if so do you think it is due to the difference in steps? I've always guessed that my hand control would not be able to take advantage of the difference, but "assumed" is the key word there

[kalnaren]

Originally posted by Sandhill:

Originally posted by kalnaren:

Sensors are going to make the big difference there. CH stuff still uses low-resolution potentiometres. I'm not sure what the honeycomb yoke uses. VKB uses MaRS magnetic sensors (Virpil uses iGMR, Thrustmaster HALL, etc.). I think my CH stick actually has a longer throw than my Virpil WarBRD but 255 steps compared to 32,000.

Both hall and potentiometers are analog sensors, so there is no difference in resolution there although a pot might be inherently less precise. I'm not familiar with iGMR Some say pots are less durable. The difference, besides perhaps (slop) arises in the ADC used, and I imagine that if someone took the trouble to run the CH with a 12 bit ADC the steps of resolution question would no longer matter. Owning both the Virpil and CH, do you actually notice a difference, and if so do you think it is due to the difference in steps? I've always guessed that my hand control would not be able to take advantage of the difference, but "assumed" is the key word there :lunar2019smilingpig:

IIRC the main issue with the CH gear is the old electronics. It just so happens that pretty much everything with potentiometres has significantly poorer resolution than equipment with magnetic sensors, as well, regardless of the sensor ability -though that might also be because with the exception of CH and maybe one or two others most companies use poor quality pots. The sensors in the CH can be swapped out one-for-one for some contactless ones (can't remember the brand/model), but it doesn't increase the resolution. Just makes it so you don't need to calibrate it ever. Also eliminates the pot jitter. Getting better resolution on CH requires a full electronics swap and upgrade to USB 3.0. Which means no more CH Control Centre :(.

Very much notice a difference between the CH and the Virpil. I didn't think I would.. but it's like night and day. Also imagine it has to do with the much more modern gimbal design in the Virpil.

Now, I should quantify that a bit though. In some games it's not going to make a big difference. I still use the CH for Rise of Flight and FreeSpace and I didn't really notice much difference in Strike Fighters (actually the Virpil got tiring in Rise of Flight because of how often the stick is being pushed to the extents -I very much prefer the lighter throw of the CH there). Didn't notice much of a difference in Elite: Dangerous, either.

DCS on the other hand.. the difference is astounding. Landing went from extremely difficult to moderetly easy. Air to air refueling went from impossible to just very difficult lol. Most other aspect of flying in DCS I found much easier with the Virpil.

IL-2 was generally easier as well, but not quite as drastic a shift.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by kalnaren:

Very much notice a difference between the CH and the Virpil. I didn't think I would.. but it's like night and day. Also imagine it has to do with the much more modern gimbal design in the Virpil.

Now, I should quantify that a bit though. In some games it's not going to make a big difference. I still use the CH for Rise of Flight and FreeSpace and I didn't really notice much difference in Strike Fighters (actually the Virpil got tiring in Rise of Flight because of how often the stick is being pushed to the extents -I very much prefer the lighter throw of the CH there). Didn't notice much of a difference in Elite: Dangerous, either.

DCS on the other hand.. the difference is astounding. Landing went from extremely difficult to moderetly easy. Air to air refueling went from impossible to just very difficult lol. Most other aspect of flying in DCS I found much easier with the Virpil.

IL-2 was generally easier as well, but not quite as drastic a shift.

Interesting observations.
RoF is its own special animal, and flying planes that were proud to have both a rudder and and elevator (we're contemplating twisting the wings, its sure to be a big improvement) isn't a great test of a stick :)
DCS is my most demanding test, any of the 1C Battle of X series also.
Nothing is of course in stock, but I guess I should order a bit. My cockpit is set up for auto racing, but finding a place for my CH Fighterstick on my forward right, not centered but only a bit right of my knee was not difficult...can't drive and fly at once but the conversion is less than a minute. A Virpil would switch out just as quickly and open the door to an extension. I'm thinking WarBRD base (I can't see even the 200mm extension giving too extreme a throw) and the WarBRD grip The Constellation looks awesome, but the only inputs I wish I had more of are analog axis, and as I'm not currently into combat, the WarBRD looks the better choice.
Thoughts?

[kalnaren]

Yea RoF really does teach the grassroots flying.. I really want to upgrade my pedals from CH to Slaw or MFG I just haven't been able to justify the cost.

The WarBRD is designed for desk or side mount, you actually can't use the extensions with it as its gimbal isn't designed for that. The T50 base is the one for anything lower as the gimbal extents are different.

Another beauty of the Virpil (and I assume VPC is the same) is the ability to swap cams and springs. I find the stock ones suitable for most uses but there's some for other applications. Whirlybird guys like the ones that don't center and just stay where you put it. IIRC the cosmo cams have a completely linear profile.

The Constellation Alpha-R is an interesting stick. It's got your typical X/Y/Z-rotation, plus an analogue ministick, analogue lever and the rotary encoder. If it existed when I got mine I might have been tempted to get it instead of the T50-CM. I like having the ministick on the throttle though and the CH Throttle suits that purpose great for 6DoF sims.

If you're not into any kind of combat sims, as nice as the Virpil stuff is, I think the argument is a little harder to make. My CH stuff served me great for years and I only upgraded to the Virpil when I got a lot more into DCS. OTOH it's great quality equipment and its in no way a downgrade. If analogue axis are your thing you may be better off looking at the Virpil throttle unit, though unfortunetly I think the current CM2 throttle is a heavy downgrade from the original CM. I'm not sure why Virpil killed that one.

The WarBRD base with a CM2 stick is tall. It's about 3" taller than the CH fighterstick sitting on the desk, though with a lesser throw. So keep that in mind for mounting and position.

[Sandhill]

Just because of the order now and receive someday factor (plenty of time to cancel) I went ahead and ordered the WarBRD base and the WarBRD grip, a lateral upgrade from my Fighterstick but I'm a bit of a hardware addict. Think I'm just going to get a moderate improvement for a fair chunk of cash, assuming I get back into combat, which is all I used to fly before getting away from flight sims for a while?

[ruk1447]

is the honeycomb overkill for a casual ? i dont think im ever going to fly a cessna , thrustmaster airbus seems like a good entry point idk

[Sandhill]

Or Thrustmaster T16000, same price...