Buying my first HOTAS joystick

[Xamurai]

I always have been into racing sims. I have invested heavily into a racing rig, but in the last 5 years i wanted to do the same for a flight sim. Flight sim can perfectly share my racing rig. So Investing in a flight sim could be minimal. If GTX1080ti can run this game well...?and maybe in the future in VR(probably need a upgrade?)
But the thing i have to do first is buying a flight controller. Unlike racing & racing wheels i do know nothing about flight and flight controllers. After google a bit i want to buy a Thrustmaster T.16000M FCS Hotas, Seems a popular choice. Seems a solid choice to start.
Or a Thrustmaster Hotas Warthog A-10C Aircraft Controller. Looks a bit more high end, a bit more weight and buttons. Even though i am not going to fly fighter jets right now.
Are these good option for MFS2020?

[Sandhill]

Your 1080ti should be plenty to enjoy the game.
Right now most resellers have prices on peripherals WAY price gouging...the T16000 stick, not the Hotas combo, should cost $69, so you can judge your vendor by that. If they want $100, just don't do it.
In the context of racing, the T16000 is perhaps comparable to a 150 series wheel from Thrustmaster, very entry level but ok. The Warthog might rise to compare to a G29 or perhaps a 300 series Thrustmaster wheel.
If you're ready to endure the headaches involved, a whole step up (think Fanatec or even Simucube) are the products from Virpil and VKB, google them. Offsetting having to buy from so far away is that neither has raised prices to take advantage of the release of MSFS, so the gap in price between them and the lesser quality Warthog is at least for now narrowed considerably.
Or you can just wait a few months until the market calms and you can buy a Thrustmaster at not rip off prices.

[Xamurai]

Yeah the prices are insane. Around here the standard prices are for the warthog is about 500€. Sold between 420-480€ by some stores. But for now sold out. The stores who are still selling have prices like 600-800€ with long wait time. Amazon can deliver but 950€ or something.....no thanks. I can wait though.
I will look into Virpil and VKB first. Money is not a issue, but value for money have to be good and the price fair. But i am not sure going all in right away on high end.

I have owned a Logitech DFGT, G27, G29 they are only plastic they felt like a toy in comparison with my Thrustmaster T500. Even though the T500 wheel was also plastic it felt like it had better build quality. Pedalset & shifters was metal though. Later some belt-driven ClubsportWheels from fanatec and a DD wheel is kinda something else.
From what i got it looked like the Warthog build quality was some thing like a beefed up T500 since it has mostly metal. Could be wrong though....

The search continues.

[Sandhill]

Originally posted by Maxitsu:

From what i got it looked like the Warthog build quality was some thing like a beefed up T500 since it has mostly metal. Could be wrong though....

The search continues.

No, to get to T500 or better you're going to Virpil or VKB. Not so much of a shipping issue for you, if you're in Europe. You can put off spending it all at once by buying a stick from them and going to a less expensive throttle. Also, if you have button boxes from your racing setup they work very well to carry the burden that you would put on a hotas throttle unit.

[nko][Bobobski]

I've been into race/flight sims for years and gone through countless combinations of wheels, joysticks, yokes, etc. The main difference for me is that while a well kitted out race sim rig is really nice and can even make for a more efficient and competitive sim race experience, it's not essential to the enjoyment of the experience as a whole. I know plenty of people with budget kit who get on just fine and do pretty well in general, or even participate competitively in online leagues and races. To me, upgrading kit in sim racing is like upgrading a car ILR, you will notice the benefits and appreciate the extras as you upgrade, making the whole experience seem progressive and satisfying, but the car will still get you from A to B without any problems if you decide to leave it just as it is.

My experience with flight sims, on the other hand (especially the GA ones), is that things are much more tied into the equipment you use. Upgrading your kit in flight simulation often feels like repairing a car; fixing a slipping clutch, or trying to figure out where that rattling noise and vibration is coming from. This is something that I notice causes a lot of dissatisfaction and resentment, especially for newcomers, as they struggle to understand whether the problem is them or the sim itself. It's not until you get to the point that everything feels more or less settled and at a satisfactory base level, that it starts to mirror the experience of upgrading equipment in race sims.

So the best general advise I can give is to try and figure out what kind of experience you want from MSFS, nobody buys ASCC to drive around Bathurst and look at the scenery, for example, yet this is perfectly possible and even part of the experience in MSFS. If you feel that you would really like to get to know some of the aircraft in detail, learning to fly them while trying to experience many of the processes and procedures that you would IRL, then the controls you choose will matter a great deal.

I don't know about joysticks for MSFS because I've always used a yoke in GA sims (though I use a Virpil VPC MongoosT-50CM2 base and Warthog stick for DCS World), I'm currently using a Honeycomb Alpha Flight Controls yoke and finding it much better than any of the previous budget yokes I've used, offering a greater amount of control and precision. I would recommend a throttle quadrant, the Saitek one is not the best quality wise, but then you aren't really asking it to do much other than provide a linear axis for throttle/prop/mixture, which it does well enough. I use a relatively budget set of rudder pedals (Thrustmaster T.Flight) because I haven't found a sim yet that simulates rudder action to the extent that it makes a significant difference what pedals you use. Lastly, I use a generic button box with a range of buttons, switches and rotary knobs, as well as a Saitek Multipanel to take care of the AP and other essential avionic functions so that I don't need to faff around with the keyboard or try to click on tiny buttons on the screen with my mouse.

Overall I would say that I enjoy my flying experience a fair amount, having recently clocked 200 hrs flying time in the in-game profile, and haven't encountered any issue setting all of this stuff up in MSFS - Be warned though, your millage may vary as may the number of mosquitoes and bugs you end up with on your windscreen.

[Sandhill]

I'd add that I am using my racing pedals with great success as rudder pedals, so that's one place the OP can save, as @ nko][ says above, rudder is not a major input in MSFS and many other sims. A stick with a twist grip is sufficient for most needs.
As @nko][ mentions, first step, really, is to decide on what planes you are wanting to fly...some are best with stick, others for sure more authentic with a yoke.

[Xamurai]

It turns out, there is not so many option when it comes to flight equipment. I always had assumed the market for flight sticks was a bit bigger. Seems i am wrong. Anyway what i wanted in my Flight sim is something with a decent build, and something that fits my racing rig/or something that can easily be replaced when switching from race to flight and vice-verse.
So no rudder pedals or yoke. So it mus be a HOTAS.

My options are:
-joysticks of 10€ or 20€: for obvious reasons i stay away from them
-Low-budget to mid range: Usually the brands Logitech, Thrustmaster, Saitek. They seem to be popular and alot af ppl seem to be liking them. and reviews (probably "payed") are obviously very positive. But when i dig deeper, alot of ppl seem to have issues with various thing. Broken buttons, deadzones, not acurate, drifting, squeeking. and being "not heavy" enough, etc...
-Thrustmast Warthog: Seems a step up, i think i would have bought this. But it turns out it has no twist. since i don't use a rudder not really a option anymore.
-High-end: so there is only the high-end left: from those options Virpil seems to be the cheapest, at first glance they also are the most beautiful and seem they have the things i want.

So i think i decided to buy
-VPC Constellation ALPHA-R
-VPC WarBRD Base
-VPC MongoosT-50CM2 Throttle

Its a bit more then i wanted to spend, But at this time the price diffrence with warthog is relatively small.

[Sandhill]

Excellent choices. And do remember that if you get to where you just can't be happy without rudder pedals, your racing pedals will work very well, and no impact on your cockpit. Well done

[Xamurai]

Yeah last night i saw a video on that subject, I don't think i am going to do that. But If it needed, i could try it.

[Sandhill]

Probably just a typical Norton problem, it is malware after all. I've interacted with the Virpil site a lot, and never had a hint of a problem.

[Disgruntled Cuttlefish]

Currently, everything is too costly in this regard, it's all a rip off.

[Xamurai]

true, but so is everthing....

[kalnaren]

Virpil stuff is amazing. No regrets here. You seriously won't believe the quality bump from practically anything cheaper to Virpil equipment.

I'm not as hot on the CM2 throttle; I managed to grab a first run CM1 and IMO it's superior to the CM2.

The WarBRD base is awesome but be aware that Virpil sticks are TALL. The Alpha-R is shorter than the T-50 I'm using, but the base + T-50 is about 32cm.

Make sure you learn how to use the Virpil Software Suite. It's practically required to get the full functionality out of the gear. It's about as eloquent as a brick to the face.

I also recommend you order dust covers for the stick and throttle. No point in spending that kind of money on gear and not getting the covers, IMO.

[Maki Nishikino]

I bought the VKB Gladiator NXT (premium one) for $150 after messing around with the Gladiator MK II. Should be here soon and going to keep the MK II as a backup. I will never look back at the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X, it's insane how much better the Gladiator MK II is over the T-Flight Hotas X, it just feels so much smoother and precise.

[Delcu]

lol still flying and having fun with my MS Sidewinder Force Feedback II.