The India Foxt Echo F35 Lightning II

[Dbentzjr]

I just bought this in the sim. I was holding out for the TMS F22, but this showed up and I couldn't resist when I saw a few reviews. First of all, I'm not entirely sure how some reviewers got this thing 2 months or more in advance. Secondly, I did try a freeware version a couple of months back and I absolutely hated it with a passion, I kept crashing it. In hindsight, that may have been this exact same jet in its early days and I was probably just an absolute moron for not fully understanding how to fly it properly. Lets get down to business.

This jet is absolutely ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ awesome. I had no idea what to expect when I shelled out my $30 bucks for this thing in the in game marketplace. My first impressions were that it wasn't as fast as that freeware F22 by Top Mach Studios that I love to fly in the sim. Also, the F35 seemed to not handle as well as the f22, not as maneuverable in flight. Well I was lucky enough to spend a few more hours flying and crashing the new F35 and all I can say is WOW!!! THIS THING IS AMAZING!!!

Seriously though, this sucker can spot on hover on a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ dime with the gps precision of a DJI Mavic Mini. I am beyond impressed at this point. Its not easy to start out, first one must be familiar with jets. I already spend months teaching myself to hover in the F22 which in turn allowed me to basically hover in anything, but the precision of hovering in this f35 is on an entirely different level. When I say that I hover if the other planes and jets, I am not able to fully come to a stop - yet - but I can say that I can keep anything in the air super stupid slow while turning a very tight circle above a target area in the sim. This F35 on the other hand can absolutely just sit there not even moving except a tiny bit of drift with the wind. That said, it even angles itself with respect to the wind direction in the sim. The hard part for me at this point is switching flight modes as there are 3 that new F35B pilots need to be aware of. ! is normal flight, 2 is STOL flight and 3 is HOVER which basically brings the craft to a complete stop. What you must be aware of is that each of these flight modes has slightly different controls, but it comes naturally when you spend a bit of time with each one.

Heres what I did, I chose a few cool spots to practice and I did a few laps both high speed and low speed around the airport of my choice, in this case I went to Kennedy in NYC. I tried to throw the plane around like I do the F22 to see what it can do. Right off the bat I can tell you 2 things, its not as fast as the F22 or as manuverable, especially at low speed. That F22 is ridiculously agile in flight and can point the nose just about anywhere on a dime. The F35 isnt quite as precise but Im not saying the F35 stinks either, its very very good at getting around in the air, if it moves a bit slower than the F22 would.

Im not a real pilot but I have many hours in MFS of actually flying aircraft. I hardly let the ai fly my planes, as most of my time is spent lapping airports at high speed or going from point a to to b manually. Not to say I never tried ai flight, I did a few flight letting the ai do all the piloting and its not bad and has improved but I still wouldn't let an ai anywhere near a real aircraft anytime soon.

Back to the topic. The trickiest part of flying this jet for me is because I love to fly in 3rd person, I must go into the cockpit view to manage a few controls. I plan to remap these controls to an easier location for me in the future but I just been lazy. I fly in the sim using a ps5 controller with slightly customized settings, I needed to invert the camera axis and I remapped one of the buttons to a speedbrake toggle. Now, when flying the f35 at a higher speed, its difficult to get to hover because of the absolute trickiness of needing to switch to cockpit view, then using mouse to cursor over to the control I need to switch all within a limited timeframe because hover mode will only engage under 240kts and theres a short threshold between applying the brakes and this aircraft falling out of the sky because its so heavy of a machine. Im sure it will get easier for me in time, but I just got this thing and I have nowhere near the experience flying this as I do the F22.

I will end this current discussion simply pointing out the fact that if you are sitting on the fence about buying this, I'd say GO FOR IT!!! But be aware the MFS marketplace version does not include mounted weapons or other such awesomeness unfortunately. I hope to get better at flying this aircraft and I hope to help anyone along the way who may have questions since I own the thing now. This thing is now my favorite new aircraft in the sim, even though its not as fast as the f22. I will also add that I LOVE the F35C, except that the B is the only one that hovers. The F35A is just a normal mini F22 with a tailhook imho lol. The F35C has a slightly wider wingspan which gives it better overall flight characteristics and the wings can fold and it has a tail hook. Again, the F35A and C can NOT hover, only the B variant can hover. Well this has been my experience of this awesome new jet so far, if anything changes Ill drop new details right here. I like the F35 B the most at this point but I thing the A or the C may actually be a bit faster in flight, Im not quite sure, I have not flown these things enough yet to really notice. Also, I have not yet tried flying this thing outside of the locked easy mode no crashing/infinite fuel settings. I plan to begin testing true to life settings with the F35 once I spend a bit more time pushing it and trying to stress it with unbreakable limits to see how it reacts in various conditions.

What I didn't like about it, or what I still don't like about it. Its not easy to jump right into and get flying. This sucker is all digital and a lot of the controls are embedded into the aircrafts touchscreen interface. The sounds I believe are very very good, but not super. Im just saying its really nicely done and well enough as it is but there could be room for improvement imho. The flight dynamics of this aren't as responsive as the F22, this may be just because Ive gotten so used to the F22 - I still need to spend time learning about this F35 and spending more time with it in general. The F35 I would say does behave in a very realistic fashion in the sim, I didn't like how I kept crashing while learning to swith between modes, but thats a part of the learning process. Before one can fly well one must crash. A LOT. 😂The rudders feel like they are not responsive enough but this may just be to the F35 being a smaller aircraft than the F22 and having less surface area to push against the wind. Again, my inexperience here is leading to me drawing questionable conclusions...

TLDR:

GET IT. GET IT GET IT GET IT!!!! It's worth it!!! You get all 3 variants of the F35 along with lots of nicely made replica liveries for each variant.

[Thogmar]

You must be a heck of a pilot, because the F-22 doesn't hover.

[Dbentzjr]

The easiest way to learn to hover the f22 or any jet is to go vertical and learn to hold the jet straight up. Its NOT easy. Once you can do that, practice slowly drifting backwards by reducing throttle just a tad but be ready to quickly 100% the throttle and face down or else you'll risk a stall and stalling from that position can be "fatal" in any aircraft.

The other part of learning to hover is learning to fly on an off axis. What I mean is that you'll need to learn to hold nearly if not full rudder while holding the flight controls in the direction opposite of the rudder and learning how the aircraft handles - its different for each aircraft. The f22 in particular can be touchy here because of its angle, it has a nice smooth hold then out of nowhere it just starts rolling down the hill fast, or so to say... its difficult to explain without showing what Im talking about, but if you can grasp those concepts, you'll be able to hover anything in the sim. Not exactly in place like that F35, but you'll be able to turn tighter circles than ever before and bring jets to a complete stop in mid air, even the larger commercial jets can do this, but I would stay far away from the a320 or the dreamliner, those override the pilots controls in effect to keep the aircraft from going into strange angles but I have found them to be dangerous, preventing the pilot from having full control over the aircraft.

Try the cessna cj4, try to hold full rudder to either side and HOLD it there for stability in the air while you attempt to fly in a straight line, and once you get good at that, try playing with the throttle giving more or less and see how it responds. This is all I am able to teach for now. Practice. Don't let crashing keep you down, you'll crash a LOT but each time you go back up, you'll be better.

[Dbentzjr]

Originally posted by Thogmar:

You must be a heck of a pilot, because the F-22 doesn't hover.

I will add to my earlier statement that you should practice with unlimited fuel and crashes and aircraft stress turned off. Also if you have access to the f22, definitely learn in that. It may be more difficult, but once you master that f22 you can fly anything else. HOWEVER... once you get good enough to be able to hover in true to life settings, be aware that smaller aircraft have nowhere near the stress limits of the fighter jets and they will break a lot easier. Its still possible to do some cool tricks with them but be more careful in lesser powered aircraft, especially when crossing back over to propeller planes from the jets, the propeller planes can hover very well and are able to hold themselves up in the air but they cant handle some of the tight & fast maneuvers as easily so keep this in mind as you're learning. The beechcraft king air is a good one for trying to hover with propellers.

[Thogmar]

So you're talking about RC (remote control) plane TAILSTANDS or Harrier maneuvers, NOT real plane or sim aircraft HOVERING.

Probably want to specify that in your posts so people will be more clear on what you're trying. ESPECIALLY when your main point is about the F-35B which CAN actually HOVER (horizontal still flight and straight vertical maneuvers while horizontal) with tilting jet nozzles and has nothing to do with TAILSTANDS.

REAL F-22s, King Airs, etc cannot hover in any way, vertical or horizontal, you'r e doing RC plane maneuvers in a sim. Which is FINE, if that's what you want to do with your sim aircraft, it's GREAT, have fun.

[Dbentzjr]

Originally posted by Thogmar:

So you're talking about RC (remote control) plane TAILSTANDS or Harrier maneuvers, NOT real plane or sim aircraft HOVERING.

Probably want to specify that in your posts so people will be more clear on what you're trying. ESPECIALLY when your main point is about the F-35B which CAN actually HOVER (horizontal still flight and straight vertical maneuvers while horizontal) with tilting jet nozzles and has nothing to do with TAILSTANDS.

REAL F-22s, King Airs, etc cannot hover in any way, vertical or horizontal, you'r e doing RC plane maneuvers in a sim. Which is FINE, if that's what you want to do with your sim aircraft, it's GREAT, have fun.

Read my post before you make stupid assumptions, I already made this perfectly clear:

"I already spend months teaching myself to hover in the F22 which in turn allowed me to basically hover in anything, but the precision of hovering in this f35 is on an entirely different level. When I say that I hover if the other planes and jets, I am not able to fully come to a stop - yet - but I can say that I can keep anything in the air super stupid slow while turning a very tight circle above a target area in the sim. This F35 on the other hand can absolutely just sit there not even moving except a tiny bit of drift with the wind. That said, it even angles itself with respect to the wind direction in the sim."

That said, I absolutely can hover a king air in place in the sim. It can probably be done in real life too, although that would be risky to attempt without practical safety measures in place as well as standby medics in case the worst would happen. This is a GAME. If I want to hover in my planes then by God I damn well will. All I can do is explain to you that its definitely possible but you'll have to do all of the hard work on your own if you want to be as good as I am at it.

[casarabat21]

Hi guy, I read your post and I had the same assumption. "What is he talking about?The F-22 cant hover!" were my thoughts. Sure you might be able to go into a vertical climb, and you might be able to hover for a few seconds as you back off the throttle on any jet with a high thrust to weight ratio. Then you go eventually into a tail first stall, which is not good for the engine. That is not clear in your original post. You needed to state in the post, "I can put an F-22 in a vertical climb, and back off the throttles as climbing and get to hover at a set attitude with the nose pointing up." Then we would understand what your saying.
Personally, maybe for some reason you can do this in the sim but I doubt they do this in real life with the F-22. It would not hover for more then a second or two, wind direction, weights positioned inside the aircraft, would influence the pitching over of the body of the plane in some direction. You have additional no thrust nozzles in the front end of the aircraft, to keep the nose straight up and to counter it going off the vertical center line, while the body of the jet is supported by the balanced thrust.
There is no tactical reason for doing that maneuver in a dogfight. A guy is tailing you, you go into a vertical climb and hover. One heat seeking missile right up you As*. The stress on the aircraft when doing a tail slide can be damaging to the control surfaces. Also if you try to climb a little to gain sir speed to manuver so you could to pitch over just takes you out of the fight. Your too busy trying to get your aircraft flying again, your focus is off the target, in 30+ seconds the enemy has put himself in position to finish you off.
The Harrier can at speed in full forward flight, momentarily shift its Nozzles 90 degrees and this push the aircraft tighter inside a turning flight to avoid a attack or to get inside the turning of someone its attacking. This its called "Viffing". I am sure the British used it on the Argentine's in the Falklands war

The only jet Aircraft I have seen do this " temporary tail first vertical hover" in real life is the MB-339 of the Freece Tricolori, The Italian Aerobatic team. The solo pilot does vertical climb in a medium thrust to weight ratio jet, the air speed bleeds off as he climbs..he "hovers" for a .5 to 1.0 seconds and starts dropping down tail first for .3 of a sec and then immediately pitches the nose over and dives to regain airspeed and does a normal stall recovery manoeuvre. It is their air show party trick.
The F-18 can do what is called a High Alpha Pass, where it pitches its nose up up at 45' and holds it there while passing the air show crowd in slow flight at 50 knots approx. it will do this for a couple of miles. Just using the most engine power without using afterburners. Having just enough air speed going over the wings and body with full flaps to keep it from stalling. That is the closest I seen a jet do a hover, other then the Harrier. But if you go below that stall speed and Angle of Attack for the F-18 speed at 500 feet above the runway, your ejecting..you cant recover.

You can check it out on you tube.
the F-18.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rh_Z-sYr3hk
Try that in the game F-18 ;-)

MB-339 Frecce Tricolori tail slide
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CLPTsEFsB1k

you can get the Frecce Tricolori MB-339 on the steam store, its a great plane



your qoute below

Read my post before you make stupid assumptions, I already made this perfectly clear:

"I already spend months teaching myself to hover in the F22 which in turn allowed me to basically hover in anything, but the precision of hovering in this f35 is on an entirely different level. When I say that I hover if the other planes and jets, I am not able to fully come to a stop - yet - but I can say that I can keep anything in the air super stupid slow while turning a very tight circle above a target area in the sim. This F35 on the other hand can absolutely just sit there not even moving except a tiny bit of drift with the wind. That said, it even angles itself with respect to the wind direction in the sim."

That said, I absolutely can hover a king air in place in the sim. It can probably be done in real life too, although that would be risky to attempt without practical safety measures in place as well as standby medics in case the worst would happen. This is a GAME. If I want to hover in my planes then by God I damn well will. All I can do is explain to you that its definitely possible but you'll have to do all of the hard work on your own if you want to be as good as I am at it. [/quote]

[Dbentzjr]

I've been practicing a lot and I have gotten even better at hovering, I can do tail slides in the F22 pretty easy and I can pretty much hover in place in the Cessna King Air now too, people probably think Im nuts when they see me doing this in the sim. I am unsure of the real life features and specifics of these planes, all I really know is what is possible in the sim, so learning that tail slides isn't good for the engine is pretty useful. Its also probably pretty useful to understand that nobody should try to hover a 747 in real life either. This sim is a video game and I treat it as such. Some flight models are better than others but at this point its getting pretty easy for me to do a lot of the same tricks across all of the aircraft in the sim. I usually only stick to my favorites, but from time to time i do tend to try the others to compare and brush up my skills. Hovering is NOT an easy thing to do, it takes a substantial amount of control and precise timing. However, the more it is practiced, the easier it becomes. This morning I took the king air off the runway and just came to a complete stop in the air and I didn't even think about it until it hit me that its probably not normal to do something like this. Whats not normal for some people probably can be normal for others, its all a matter of perspective. If anyone else puts in the work I have in learning how, they can do the same things I do. It is difficult for sure, but as you can see its definitely not impossible. It just takes practice and patience. I was getting frustrated about the sim being broken and the 3rd person camera is still a big pain to me but when nobody cares or listens, i just end up brushing it off and moving along on my own keeping to my own business. I don't have enough money to buy every plane in the sim, but everything I do own I can fly the same way, the only exceptions are the a320 neo and the dreamliner, both which have technology that keep them from flying inverted or going past certain flight angles. I can still fly them to a pretty crazy degree, but the way the sim is now, I have also broken planes by flying the way I do. Sometimes I get things like flaps refusing to function after doing something crazy and it takes a sim reset to fix it. The updates have been improving things, but a lot of things still bother me but theres nothing I can do about it so I just fly and ignore everyone and go on doing my own thing. I dont think its normal to be able to hover this easy, but its just something Ive learned to do because I love flying in the sim and I love pushing the limits. This world is so beautiful, its a joy to fly, and sometimes i just get bored and thats how this started. The F35 can hover but thats a lazy persons hover. The way I do it is a lot trickier but also a lot more controllable and agile than the f35 once the concept is down. I do love the F35, and I do love being lazy, but getting TOO lazy can be bad. After flying nothing by the f35 for a few days, I found it wasn't as easy to jump right back in to hovering the other stuff and I had to practice and grind for a bit to get back "in the zone". I still haven't really tried to hover old fashioned with the f35, it would be a challenge for me to try to hover the f35 a or c model. Im still looking forward to the upcoming payware TMS F22 also. Happy weekend to all and happy flying!!!