How to trim helicopter

[Mr. De_Sålva]

Ok, so helicopters released, do anybody know how to trim them? In the settings there are few trim options for helicopter but no one properly works. You can't use trimmer in heli like you use it in planes. on stick of Bell 407 there is a force trim button, I guess that's what im looking for but there is no such option in key binding options

[Surveyor]

Not exactly an answer to your exact question (they probably haven't implemented it yet), but typically helicopter trimming is either the magnetic brake type (force trim) where the cyclic is loaded, but you can move its center to the current position using the force trim button, or(and?) there is also the so called "bip trim" that lets you to shift cyclic bias not dissimilar to how it works on planes (if the helo in question is equipped with a stability augmentation system).

Light helicopters usually aren't equipped with neither, but both the cyclic and the pedals are center-less anyway - they are only held in place by friction locks. You just get in, start up the systems, remove friction , find the current apparent "center" and hold the controls there while following its perpetual change. It's not that problematic on the hand/arm because there is no spring or any artificial loading, so you only have to overcome the mechanical/aerodynamic resistance of the controls. More often than not you are helped by the hydraulics to do that.

Helicopter sims emulate force trim in two ways: either you place the stick where you want the new center to be, hit the button and promptly release the stick; or while you are holding the stick in the new center first you depress the button, move the stick in its physical center and then release the button. Both are far from optimal. I'd urge you to either weaken the springs in your stick or take them out altogether if you want to fly helicopters.

Also, some DIY people actually do implement proper magnetic brakes. You can find examples on YouTube if you want.

[Flashgod_VR]

Atm, there is only directional trim via joystick hat. For a more realistic experience you would need a springless joystick or a FFB joystick like the VPforce Rhino where you can turn down the spring effect on the fly and set friction/damping for all axis. This way you can turn a "normal" flightstick behaviour into a cyclic without having to fight against the spring-centering. I just had one of the best VR flight experiences ever in MSFS2020 with my Rhino and the Bell. However, Asobo should implement FFB for real force trim functionality in MSFS2020.
Check this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDU5VHS-YzQ&list=PLG4qHVlhXJQLsygAtX973-5wzjWxvM_dh&index=9

[ждун]

The issue is actually the mechanical spring centering of the joystick. In reality of course you don't have any centering spring. In a plane the airflow applies pressure to the stick/yoke. The spring on the joystick is only simulating this, even though not quite correct, as the pressure in reality depends on the airspeed. The faster you go the more stiff it gets around the center. Now in a helicopter (without any stabilisation and trimming mechanism) the cyclic behaves a bit different. There is only very little pressure applied to the cyclic so you would not feel such a strong pressure on the stick like from a mechanical spring. I have no idea yet how to get around this. They could implement an assistence option that works like auto trimming allowing you to release the stick to center while maintaining the attitude. But the way it is now its very annoying to have constantly apply pressure against the centering spring.

[ждун]

Aha! I think i have figured it out.
There is now an additional controls profile for my HOTAS (T16000). It has to be selected in the controls options. When selected i have to hold the trigger and then use the pov to trim cyclic. However i suggest modifying the profile when used together with throttle and pedals, as by default it assigns throttle axis on joystick to collective, and Z axis to rudders, which conflicts with ruder and throttle controls. I have unassigned them on the helicopter profile, now its fun.

[Surveyor]

Originally posted by ждун:

Aha! I think i have figured it out.
There is now an additional controls profile for my HOTAS (T16000). It has to be selected in the controls options. When selected i have to hold the trigger and then use the pov to trim cyclic. However i suggest modifying the profile when used together with throttle and pedals, as by default it assigns throttle axis on joystick to collective, and Z axis to rudders, which conflicts with ruder and throttle controls. I have unassigned them on the helicopter profile, now its fun.

My condolences, I'm also a T.16000M (full HOTAS) user. Thrustmaster are probably sadists deep inside, I wish I bought something else back then.

[Mr. De_Sålva]

Thanks guys, really sad to hear that. I guess we will wait for some fix. Helicopters modeled fantastic but for me they currently unflyable

[Surveyor]

Originally posted by Mr. De_Sålva:

Thanks guys, really sad to hear that. I guess we will wait for some fix. Helicopters modeled fantastic but for me they currently unflyable

Oh, come on, for short sight-seeing runs (under 10 minutes or so) they are fine even while using a monstrosity that is T.16000M (I doubt your stick has a worse spring than that).
It's much more fun to hold the aircraft "by the scruff" while having a very tangible handling experience than to lose your original intent behind never ending re-centering.
Sure, the spring can be a pain (literally), but depending on your stick you can either significantly weaken the spring for helicopter flying, or remove it for good (you'll need a DIY "friction" assembly that will hold it roughly in the center while not holding it).
Believe me, flying helicopters is a ton of fun, and if you want to fly them seriously, you'll have to do something about those springs anyway (or just get a Puma cyclic/collective set or something similar).

Helicopter flying is a much more intimate experience than flying a plane. Roughly speaking, it's like riding a bike compared to a driving an SUV. It also gets more unstable at lower speeds as well.

[Surveyor]

You are most likely flying it "from A to B" just like a plane - that is not the best way to enjoy a helicopter. Keep these runs short, but more engaging. Fly around skyscrapers, land on a roof. Land on a moving boat. Or at least practice some in ground effect and out of ground effect hovering - it'll get enough fun to overcome the spring problem.

[Mac7247]

You need to assign inputs to longitudinal and lateral rotor trim in control settings. I'd suggest also assigning something to rotor trim reset, as there is no way to keep track of the trim applied from what I can see, and this is an easy way to reset it to zero to help with landing.

[Flashgod_VR]

Originally posted by Mr. De_Sålva:

Thanks guys, really sad to hear that. I guess we will wait for some fix. Helicopters modeled fantastic but for me they currently unflyable

Flying with a springless stick, i'm actually impressed how they managed to get "realistic" helicopter flying working. It's a really good base for that kind of flight model.

[Surveyor]

I just don't get it why the plane controls still keep affecting helicopters if both helicopter AND plane controls are assigned at the same time. Normally, pitch and roll axis shouldn't do anything to the cyclic input, while the throttle control definitely should NOT directly change the collective state. After all, helicopters do have a throttle and it regulates the rotor RPM, not the blades pitch.

[Flashgod_VR]

yep, that's really stupid. now you have to create and switch controller profiles each time you choose a different aircraft.

[ждун]

Originally posted by Mac7247:

You need to assign inputs to longitudinal and lateral rotor trim in control settings. I'd suggest also assigning something to rotor trim reset, as there is no way to keep track of the trim applied from what I can see, and this is an easy way to reset it to zero to help with landing.

Its all assigned already, you just have to switch controls profile to helicopters.

[Surveyor]

Originally posted by Flashgod_VR:

yep, that's really stupid. now you have to create and switch controller profiles each time you choose a different aircraft.

I don't know who came up with this whole user interface, but it would be difficult to make it any worse (short of removing the profiles support).
Seriously, in DCS it's miles better than this (even if hardly any perfect), in X-Plane it's - again - miles better. But this "UI" here is just a spit in the face of the simming community.
Even the switches in the cockpit can be difficult to flip because of the way the hints system is.
Hopefully, at some point during the development they'll finally give this sim the UI it deserves...

[pizza7]

Originally posted by Mr. De_Sålva:

Thanks guys, really sad to hear that. I guess we will wait for some fix. Helicopters modeled fantastic but for me they currently unflyable

get yourself a controller, they fly well with it, its quite cheap.