So, About That BeyondATC...

[Twelvefield]

Yup. BATC came out, what, yesterday? I'm not even a big ATC fan. I'm massively allergic to VATSIM, ugh. Big Daddy Pixel doesn't tell Twelvefield how to fly! Big Daddy Pixel doesn't tell Twelvefield where to fly! Twelvefield is the Jack Keroac Of The Sky, baby! Except instead of sex and drugs, he sits at home and plays Flight Simulator! And buys add-ons for Flight Simulator! Laisser les bons temps rouler!

Totally against character, though, I bought BATC, an ATC add-on. The BATC people changed their pricing scheme so that the base model is less than thirty clams Americano. Is it worth that much for an ATC that no longer vectors you into a mountain but not before switching your Center twenty times and then asking you to climb or descend to some ridiculous arbitrary altitude? It was for me.

Yes, yes, yes, Asobo should have fixed the ATC by now. You can make a better ATC, Microsoft is 1 Microsoft Way Redmond Washington, USA. Just walk right in and they'll set you up with your own desk and computer, once you tell them Twelvefield (The Jack Keorac Of The Sky) sent you.

So far, until now, that hasn't happened. The third-party ATC's mostly are lacklustre or cumbersome. BATC was so easy to set up even I could do it. And it works pretty good, too. BUT... it is Beta software, and it is buggy. Pretty much as buggy as the MSFS ATC, but in different places. My favourite is the Canadian ground controller who slips into a thick Sicilian accent from time to time. I think he gets excited when he realizes he's talking to the Jack Keroac Of - well, you know.

Yes, there are around 100 different voices with regional accents: eat that, Azure! These are AI-controlled voices that are slightly less in quality than Azure, but at least 96 more in number. Unless... you pony up for the Premium voices, which you pay for on top of the base program (but are 100% optional - if you don't want to pay, don't use Premium and stick with Basic). The Premium voices are something like talking to a realistic human, except with some super-wow built in. The Tyrell "More Human Than Human" motto springs to mind. What if Benedict Cumberbatch and Scarlett Johanssen were geeky air traffic controllers who did only your flights? You don't hear those voices per se, but the AI voice talent is on that level. It's glorious, but I'm not made of money.

The push-to-talk function is now Basic, too. For a while, BATC was going to charge you for speaking to the AI controller. That's not a thing anymore. The phraseology you use can vary somewhat, but it's pretty good at following real-world procedure. For those of us who are microphone shy, this is huge, huge, and huge. You can speak reasonably naturally, and the ATC gets it. I'm going to try speaking to it in my best Harrison Ford voice, and see if it guides in for a landing on the taxiway. "We're home, Chewie!"

Also, you need to run at least the freeware part of SimBrief to make IFR flights as BATC can't handle VFR yet. Or traffic, so you're making these complicated briefs and you are the only plane in the sky for the entire planet. Well, you won't get the bugs with MSFS AI planes anymore. SB isn't my favouritest app ever: it's largely geared for passenger jetliners, which I find are the most unfun to fly, and it's telling me in its IFR-nasal anal-retentive way where, when, and how I have to fly- the opposite of Twelvefield Keroac in action. But the union, (hopefully temporary) between SB and BATC, as unholy as it is, is at least seamless and easy enough even for me. And so help me, I for once shot a fun instrument approach. In a fun plane, too, the DC-3, not some soul-less passenger tube, thank you very much.

If you don't like beta products, BATC is undercooked and needs work. Avoid for now. If you feel the need to talk to an ATC who listens to you, really listens, and values you as a human being, and respects you just enough to not slam you into the peak of Popocatépetll (19° 1′ 20″ N, 98° 37′ 40″ W)... BATC is one of a few really good choices today. It's definitely at a good price point, too, if you don't mind foregoing Premium.

[MycroftCanadaNS]

From what I understand is, there is a 50,000 character limit which means (at least in my opinion) it will no longer work once you reach that 50,000 mark.

I'm holding off once I found out about the character limit. I could be wrong, and I really hope I am, I sure hope that is for a day otherwise the software isn't worth purchasing.

Wow, I just went to their site. There is no reset you have to keep purchasing more characters. Here is something from their website.

Buy More Premium Characters - $9.99

Adds 250,000 Premium characters to your account. (Or about 15-20 Flights)

Nope, this software is not for me. They even say the 50,000 character limit is about 1 hour of speech. After that you have to fill up that character limit by purchasing more.

You're better off using Pilot2ATC. Yes hefty price tag but once you buy it it's all done, and you can use it without restrictions.

[Twelvefield]

Well, again, that's the Premium voices, that ones that you have to pay for to sound like God talking to you. BATC comps you 50 grand of those, which probably won't last more than a handful of flights. The regular Basic voices, which compare to the Azure voices, are included within the price of BATC, and you can use an unlimited amount of those without paying anything extra.

I do like to think my wittier writing entertains, but if I somehow made it unclear that Basic = Basic, then it's back to the Ayn Rand Academy for me. On the other hand, if you're misunderstanding because you read something wrong and really can't grasp Basic, then I get a Coke.

We all know you're cheap, you've made that abundantly clear in other posts. I'm cheap, too. I wouldn't have pulled the trigger if I thought I needed the Premium stuff. But if I win the lottery, there it is.

As it is, AI experts speculate that the price of AI voices ought to go down over time the more popular they become. Servers will have more users, which could drive down the cost since it would be easier to generate profit. On the other hand, Azure has been pricey since its inception around ten years ago and remains pricey today.

I don't want to shill for BATC, but I do think what you get for your money is better than Pilot2ATC, which is becoming outdated. However, it's your choice. Please make it an informed choice, though.

I place Pilot2ATC squarely in the "cumbersome" camp. It's really fiddly, you have to spend quite a long time setting things up, and it is expensive enough - twice the price of BATC.

[MycroftCanadaNS]

An informed choice is not to purchase something you have to keep paying for. You sure do love yourself don't you?

Oh well, maybe no one else does but rest assured, even purchasing the basic model at $30.00 or so dollars, and paying another $9.99 per week for more character points it will quickly add up to the point that you could sink a few hundred dollars after Six months of using the software.

No, only fools pay for something that will run hundreds to enjoy.

[Narf]

Originally posted by MycroftCanadaNS:

An informed choice is not to purchase something you have to keep paying for. You sure do love yourself don't you?

Oh well, maybe no one else does but rest assured, even purchasing the basic model at $30.00 or so dollars, and paying another $9.99 per week for more character points it will quickly add up to the point that you could sink a few hundred dollars after Six months of using the software.

No, only fools pay for something that will run hundreds to enjoy.

Are you done spouting uninformed nonsense already? As was already said, you only have to keep paying for the Premium voices, those have a character contingent you can use up.

Basic voices, of which there are 170, don't cost anything to use beyond the initial purchase for $30. No limit at all. Infinite usage (or at least as long as BATC keeps operating - those voices are depending on server-access, after all).

And before you think I'm shilling for BATC: Nope, I took a look at it and decided it isn't for me (yet). The basic voices for non-english countries are often cringe as hell, ridiculously overblown thick accent and frequent mispronounciations. No VFR, no traffic injection handling yet (will come in the future), both of which are deal-killers to me. Too many bugs for me, too.
So I am totally not telling anyone to go buy this. But what you're yodeling here is just plain wrong.

[jbonesmd]

Wasn't there another one in the works aside from BATC too? I seem to remember at least one other but I don't know the current status of it. I too held off on BATC after watching a few YT vids with it. There were times I could barely understand the accented ATC voices at all.

I switched to off-line voices a while back which to me don't sound much different to the Azure voices, and it has at least been mainly error free in IFR flights for me. I can live with those until something MUCH better comes along.

It must be somewhat difficult to develop a good ATC system for ANY developers out there because in the case of BATC, although somewhat better than the default, it's a far cry from being the perfect alternative. It may improve as time goes by but it's a long way off at this point for me.

[Alan]

Originally posted by MycroftCanadaNS:

From what I understand is, there is a 50,000 character limit which means (at least in my opinion) it will no longer work once you reach that 50,000 mark.

But it does work. Why are you spreading misinformation?

[[SSAFA]CUDGEdaveUK]

I am using 'SayIntentions' and quite pleased so far with that.

[Manwith Noname]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

Yes, yes, yes, Asobo should have fixed the ATC by now.

Yes, they should.

[Twelvefield]

Originally posted by SSAFACUDGEdaveUK:

I am using 'SayIntentions' and quite pleased so far with that.

SayIntentions is the other big AI-based 3PD ATC right now. It's also more expensive, but the AI is closer to ChatGPT. It really understands context and you can say a lot of things that it will comprehend. I think it's exciting as well, but it has a tendency to tell you things and not follow through, including the dreaded direct-to into a mountain. I'm not sure if that's a bug or a current limitation to ChatGPT, more likely the latter, although of course the AI learns from its mistakes easily.

SI is maybe at least as buggy as BATC, maybe less so. It handles a lot of commands, and is very, very impressive in that regard. SI would certainly be at least equal to VATSIM in terms of being able to converse with ATC.

[dclonghorns]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

Originally posted by SSAFACUDGEdaveUK:

t it has a tendency to tell you things and not follow through, including the dreaded direct-to into a mountain. I'm not sure if that's a bug or a current limitation to ChatGPT,.

With all of the recent ATC errors, maybe it is art imitating life? There have been some hair-raising doozies here lately.

[Wilfred Owen]

Originally posted by MycroftCanadaNS:

Nope, this software is not for me. They even say the 50,000 character limit is about 1 hour of speech. After that you have to fill up that character limit by purchasing more.

You're better off using Pilot2ATC. Yes hefty price tag but once you buy it it's all done, and you can use it without restrictions.

This is not all true for the basic voices. The premium voices have a character limit. However, 1 hr of speech is a lot, and this will likely last many sessions.

[Twelvefield]

The Premium voices will burn through a lot more quickly when BATC starts to be able to communicate with AI traffic. Still, you can use Premium on the ATC, the AI planes, all of that, or none of that as you see fit.

Modern ATC in the real world is in a state of transition a lot like the 1970's and early '80's - not good times. Pre-Pandemic was the highest volume of air traffic ever recorded, and we are at that point again: more aircraft in a limited airspace. There is immense pressure to get commercial aircraft in and out of airports. No wonder there are so many close calls, the past couple of years have seen some noteworthy changes to ATC procedures both in North America and Europe.

On the plus side of the ledger is GPS navigation. Computerized real-time geolocation down to a meter or two of resolution ensures that ATC can shave separations down to a minimum. GPS-style satellites will only fail in a Carrington Event or a war, so it's reliable over the majority of the globe. Not all of it, but much of it.

GPS transmission is almost immune to hacking as well. Unfortunately, that's not the case for GPS receivers. At DEF CON, the yearly White Hat hackers convention in Las Vegas, they proved conclusively that a single person can jam an aircraft or even an airport through an unguarded GPS receiver using parts you can get from Radio Shack (fortunately, Radio Shack is dead, so maybe it's not so easy after all?). While it's almost impossible to make an airplane disappear from GPS through jamming, it's easy to create a denial of service attack, simply to overload the receiver with false contacts.

So, it does look like human ATC might end up being replaced with AI, just like writers, illustrators, and John Lennon. An AI ATC might truly be efficient, but it might also go nuts and blow up Tesla-style. BATC and SI kind of give us a glimpse into that. Well, so does MSFS, at least from the perspective of a computerized ATC that fails to value human life.

[Simracer]

Originally posted by Twelvefield:

Yup. BATC came out, what, yesterday? I'm not even a big ATC fan. I'm massively allergic to VATSIM, ugh. Big Daddy Pixel doesn't tell Twelvefield how to fly! Big Daddy Pixel doesn't tell Twelvefield where to fly! Twelvefield is the Jack Keroac Of The Sky, baby! Except instead of sex and drugs, he sits at home and plays Flight Simulator! And buys add-ons for Flight Simulator! Laisser les bons temps rouler!

Totally against character, though, I bought BATC, an ATC add-on. The BATC people changed their pricing scheme so that the base model is less than thirty clams Americano. Is it worth that much for an ATC that no longer vectors you into a mountain but not before switching your Center twenty times and then asking you to climb or descend to some ridiculous arbitrary altitude? It was for me.

Yes, yes, yes, Asobo should have fixed the ATC by now. You can make a better ATC, Microsoft is 1 Microsoft Way Redmond Washington, USA. Just walk right in and they'll set you up with your own desk and computer, once you tell them Twelvefield (The Jack Keorac Of The Sky) sent you.

So far, until now, that hasn't happened. The third-party ATC's mostly are lacklustre or cumbersome. BATC was so easy to set up even I could do it. And it works pretty good, too. BUT... it is Beta software, and it is buggy. Pretty much as buggy as the MSFS ATC, but in different places. My favourite is the Canadian ground controller who slips into a thick Sicilian accent from time to time. I think he gets excited when he realizes he's talking to the Jack Keroac Of - well, you know.

Yes, there are around 100 different voices with regional accents: eat that, Azure! These are AI-controlled voices that are slightly less in quality than Azure, but at least 96 more in number. Unless... you pony up for the Premium voices, which you pay for on top of the base program (but are 100% optional - if you don't want to pay, don't use Premium and stick with Basic). The Premium voices are something like talking to a realistic human, except with some super-wow built in. The Tyrell "More Human Than Human" motto springs to mind. What if Benedict Cumberbatch and Scarlett Johanssen were geeky air traffic controllers who did only your flights? You don't hear those voices per se, but the AI voice talent is on that level. It's glorious, but I'm not made of money.

The push-to-talk function is now Basic, too. For a while, BATC was going to charge you for speaking to the AI controller. That's not a thing anymore. The phraseology you use can vary somewhat, but it's pretty good at following real-world procedure. For those of us who are microphone shy, this is huge, huge, and huge. You can speak reasonably naturally, and the ATC gets it. I'm going to try speaking to it in my best Harrison Ford voice, and see if it guides in for a landing on the taxiway. "We're home, Chewie!"

Also, you need to run at least the freeware part of SimBrief to make IFR flights as BATC can't handle VFR yet. Or traffic, so you're making these complicated briefs and you are the only plane in the sky for the entire planet. Well, you won't get the bugs with MSFS AI planes anymore. SB isn't my favouritest app ever: it's largely geared for passenger jetliners, which I find are the most unfun to fly, and it's telling me in its IFR-nasal anal-retentive way where, when, and how I have to fly- the opposite of Twelvefield Keroac in action. But the union, (hopefully temporary) between SB and BATC, as unholy as it is, is at least seamless and easy enough even for me. And so help me, I for once shot a fun instrument approach. In a fun plane, too, the DC-3, not some soul-less passenger tube, thank you very much.

If you don't like beta products, BATC is undercooked and needs work. Avoid for now. If you feel the need to talk to an ATC who listens to you, really listens, and values you as a human being, and respects you just enough to not slam you into the peak of Popocatépetll (19° 1′ 20″ N, 98° 37′ 40″ W)... BATC is one of a few really good choices today. It's definitely at a good price point, too, if you don't mind foregoing Premium.

Vatsim haters unite! lol Cheers

[★Macman★]

Will give it a go once they add AIR TRAFFIC. It's not just about VOICES but they drastically improved the CALL OUTS for APPROACH. Sure it is all IFR but wonder how well they will add VFR also as is simpler as it may not need to connect with any Flight Plan you crazy horses
Thanks TWELVEFIELD (sex & drugs for now then it is)

[Twelvefield]

I did wonder why they don't have VFR. Then I remembered how the very first thing I did in MSFS was try to fly under a bridge. The AI has to deal with stupid stuff like that because a pretend pilot doesn't have the fear of death a good real life pilot will have. My VFR excursions are fun because I don't worry about the rules, and MSFS facilitates that. Every time I can tell the ATC I'm ignoring IFR gives me a bit of a thrill, although I know that would be A Very Bad Thing to do in the real world.

Programming IFR flights is easier than handling VFR because you're telling the ATC exactly where and when you are flying - your flight plan. So the computer doesn't have to generate data for Chicago if you are flying from Tokyo to Beijing, unless you're Tom Cruise in a Darkstar. Flying VFR is simpler for pilots but harder for an AI to rationalize - so many variables. A good IFR flight plan has as few variables as possible, which makes for safe flights for millions of people and also makes for truly boring flights. That's good: exciting, unpredictable flights are very bad for airlines.

The first 3PD ATC I recall (that was any good) was I think RealATC 2000 for FS2000. I don't think I remember the name right, but it has a single dev who was very British by name of Dave Barry or something like that. I am sure I am remembering it wrong, but I'm not far off. Anyone who remembers it right I promise not to insult them to their face for 24 hours. I get to pick which 24 hours, though.

By filing an IFR flight plan, the ATC generated pre-rendered callouts that were more detailed than what the ATC in MS2000 could provide (and with better voices), because they were triggered by logical IFR events. I think you could even plug in SIDs and STARs, which the early FS ATC has problems with. The downside was that you couldn't deviate from your flight plan, but you could declare go-arounds, diversions, and emergencies because those were things you had to include in your flight plan, kind of like SimBrief.

So the AI system is similar to that, the basic concept hasn't changed much. The AI is more conversant, that's all. In SayIntentions, the AI can receive commands for a wide variety of flights, but I'm not convinced it understands all of the human rules yet. It's getting there.

Air traffic, yes, that's going to be interesting to see what happens. BATC barely has functional traffic, and nothing that goes into the air yet. It's planned as the "second half" of the BATC experience. If it works, that would be great as long as it isn't pointy passenger jets. If it doesn't go well, BATC isn't all that expensive as long as you stay away from Premium, I could live with footing that bill.