this is nothing like flying in a real airplane

[Cornelius Edgerton]

I don't wanna say bad things about MSFS, which I think is a top-notch sim and I loved it, but I've recently started flight training irl and with all honesty there's nothing to compare... I was even playing MSFS in full VR (so looking outside was not a problem) with stick, throttle, rudder, haptic feedback, etc. Still, the sensory input was so much different when you fly a real plane. Of course, I was not foolish enough to think that a sim can be compared with real life flying, but I didn't expect the difference to be this big. Like, much bigger than the difference between sim driving and actual driving.

Again, not saying MSFS is a bad software, but more to say that if you enjoy flying in sim, flying a real plane is just whole other level of fun!

[Stoned Henge]

Have you ever been sitting in a real airplane simulator? You will feel nearly no difference to an airplane cockpit in real life. Calling MSFS as a simulator isn't meant to be a real aviation simulator for real pilots. I think we should call it more likely as a hobby flight simulator. But what do mean all the words as long we have much fun while playing? Have always clear skies!

[★Macman★]

When they first made changes to Gusts created by valleys that made a big difference. In VR I was feeling the slight giddiness of losing lift in a C152. I just have not felt that lately and I struggle to even find bad Weather with Rain even when I select to spawn in Storms. Never seen Lightening in 2 Years neither. Never seen icing for another matter in all that time. Now I don't even see our own CONTRAILS since SU15. If others see this then there could be a common factor e.g. using an FPS Mod. I don not know what but the Game feels very lame in many aspects and without Dynamic Turbalence, just the near max speed vibration but I set that with FSRealistic.

[Stoned Henge]

@★Macman★
You shouldn't fly a C152 when in stormy weather!! Lol...

[★Macman★]

Stoned Henge の投稿を引用：

@★Macman★
You shouldn't fly a C152 when in stormy weather!! Lol...

3yrs ago I did a VTOL Landing in UK in the C152. The sim was that real back then.

[Cornelius Edgerton]

Stoned Henge の投稿を引用：

Have you ever been sitting in a real airplane simulator? You will feel nearly no difference to an airplane cockpit in real life. Calling MSFS as a simulator isn't meant to be a real aviation simulator for real pilots. I think we should call it more likely as a hobby flight simulator. But what do mean all the words as long we have much fun while playing? Have always clear skies!

good point. and no, I've not sat in a real 5d simulator before. that, i reckon, is going to be very realistic.

[Patriot03]

Does this surprise anyone? Video games never compare to reality.

[Twelvefield]

Cornelia Edgerton の投稿を引用：

Stoned Henge の投稿を引用：

Have you ever been sitting in a real airplane simulator? You will feel nearly no difference to an airplane cockpit in real life. Calling MSFS as a simulator isn't meant to be a real aviation simulator for real pilots. I think we should call it more likely as a hobby flight simulator. But what do mean all the words as long we have much fun while playing? Have always clear skies!

good point. and no, I've not sat in a real 5d simulator before. that, i reckon, is going to be very realistic.

The flight school near where I live has one. Quite a number of flight schools do, now, at least in big cities.

The realism comes from the controls, which are 1:1* with real aircraft. The motion, unless you are sitting in the gigantic LVL-C sim, is more or less just a kicker. Even so, you get a fair amount of sensory input from that, a bit more than from a force-feedback yoke.

The visuals, well, honestly MSFS has some of the best amongst sims for that. Even LVL-C sims tend to have minimal things to see outside of the window. You can go all the way back to the top-secret SR-71 Blackbird simulator (which was kept in a secret room behind the freezer section of a suburban grocery store): all they had was a blue panel for sky and a brown panel for ground. To simulate a roll, you inverted the panels.

*No sim has perfect controls, though. Even the big commercial sims have quirks, like crummy taxi-ing or mushy controls.

[lawnmower501]

There are some incredible home-built rigs out there:
-Force feedback everything.
-Multi-screens for the windows all tweaked to the pilot's perspective.
-There are leaning seats and cupped platforms with motorized shaker feedback to simulate G-forces.
-Some ppl have used a real chopped off front section of scrap aircraft and hooked up most of the switches and gauges using Arduino and/or Raspberry Pi chip interfaces with custom software to make them interact and work. Just wow effort involved there.
-A 110V MIG gas welder, grinding wheel on a drill, and HVLP paint gun with water filter to a cheap compressor, goes a long way towards creating any type of frame from scrap metal to install seat and controller platforms. Make them interchangeable. The imagination is yours.

We live in good times when this is even possible.

[ZombieHunter]

Quite a few flight schools in my area have simulators. Non full motion sims are not that uncommon.

FS 2020 is really good for dead reckoning, weather decisions, procedures, checklists, flow, instrument familiarity, and much much more.

The flight model is not perfect but it is pretty good. As has been said what is different between a certified sim and FS 2020 is primarily in the cockpit and tactile more than flight model.

But I do beg to differ it is nothing like the real thing. Yesterday at around 1900 to 2000 MSL the winds and turbulence were blowing my aircraft all over the place. It felt like FS 2020 turbulence to an extent. Of course the aircraft acted a bit differently than in the sim, but the sim is still pretty close in many areas. This also depends on which aircraft you are using. My yoke is not force feedback so of course the real C172 has far different control pressures but this is not an issue when going from sim to real life b/c you can feel the plane in real life and that changes your inputs nearly automatically.

The avionics in the sim, even for the basic Garmin setups, are quite different or not complete within the simulator. The sim has little annoyances and oversights that the real Garmin unit does not have. The real Garmin units are a pleasure to use and have many QOL features that the sim versions do not. I hope the sim comes out with more aircraft with G5s and/or Avidyne avionics.

Ground effect feels a little over-exaggerated in the sim and ground handling has improved (I might add greatly for the G1000 C172) but it is still not completely accurate. Sometimes aircraft respond far too quickly to rudder inputs on the ground while taxiing and on crosswind rollouts.

Trim in the sim C172 is very odd and imprecise and in the real one trim is a cinch and very easy. It is very easy to maintain altitude in a plane, but you do get bumped up and down by air pockets and thermals depending on the terrain features. FS 2020 does a very good job at altering the air flow over terrain features and this is very consistent with what I've experienced on real flights.

Landing in the sim is not perfect and it will let you get away with bouncing the nose wheel off the runway all day, but you can land correctly in it nose high and on the mains right at stall. It is very good for teaching the power for altitude, pitch for airspeed relationship and it does a very good job with this. You can practice pretty much any maneuver in the simulator and then go do it in real life. Again this is after many hours in the real plane. Once you get the hang of the real plane, applying what you do in the sim to the real plane becomes much simpler.

I have used the sim quite a bit in my training and while it is not perfect, it still beats chair flying with nothing in front of you. The sim never replaces seat time, but it can help you in training if you use it properly and don't get into bad habits that then translate to the real thing.

[Oggmeista]

True enough but there is or rather was an infamous MSFS gamer who stole a real airliner from an airport somehow got it started and took off, all only on the knowledge gained in this sim, they also tragically killed themselves, but i'm not sue if that was accidental but rather intentional.

Had they not of gained this experience doing this crazy acheivement would not of been possible, (they even believe it or not barrell rolled the aircraft. i sh* you not... they would not even of been able to start the engines let alone get into the air.. not sure if you could call this a promotional selling point, but it does show that MSFS has some connection to real life flying. and good luck with your training..earn those wings

[ZombieHunter]

Oggmeista の投稿を引用：

True enough but there is or rather was an infamous MSFS gamer who stole a real airliner from an airport somehow got it started and took off, all only on the knowledge gained in this sim, they also tragically killed themselves, but i'm not sue if that was accidental but rather intentional.

Had they not of gained this experience doing this crazy acheivement would not of been possible, (they even believe it or not barrell rolled the aircraft. i sh* you not... they would not even of been able to start the engines let alone get into the air.. not sure if you could call this a promotional selling point, but it does show that MSFS has some connection to real life flying. and good luck with your training..earn those wings

That was not a sim player. It was an airline employee that worked at the airport.

[Oggmeista]

Quote: That was not a sim player. It was an airline employee that worked at the airport.

Well didn't realize they said they were an employee of the companies Alaska Airlines to which the plane belonged, but they do say they had "played some video games" and that they "knew what they were doing", So i wouldn't of thought that this game was Afterburner, he isn't going to get the engines started up with that knowledge. , so it's almost certainly a sim,, clearly the guy had serious depression issues and imho had always planned to crash intentionally hence why doing barrell roles presented no fear to them, still it's a pretty depressing albeit crazy story...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYpaf8WdppM

[ZombieHunter]

The press always blames something. Never the crazy person involved. One of their favorites to blame is video games. They always try to explain away crazy behavior with blame. But, in reality, if you play stupid games you win stupid prizes. Lesson: don't be stupid.

[dclonghorns]

PC-based BATDs are used in almost every flight school here in my area. They are excellent training tools in some circumstances. One CFI I used liked to put newer students on the BATD to find the point where they reached task overload. Some beginning students do have issues when it comes to multi-tasking.

MSFS is best used for pilotage too. It excels in that area, much better than my copies of XP-11/XP-12. It's always easier to find the landmarks called out in the Sectional in MSFS. I just wish it had accurate obstruction rendering like XP-12 does. If you are learning VOR navigation, getting familiar in a simulator is going to put you ahead of other students. remember, Hobbs-meter time is money. Lots of money.

I always treat my simulator as a BATD. Just like at the flight school. You always use the checklists for each phase of flight. Reinforce good habits. The best addition I have made to my sim is the Logitech radio panel. Changing frequencies as you progress through the flight is much more realistic when you have a tactile input to make. It helps you focus on maintaining course/altitude while performing that task.

[lawnmower501]

Oggmeista の投稿を引用：

Well didn't realize they said they were an employee of the companies Alaska Airlines to which the plane belonged, but they do say they had "played some video games" and that they "knew what they were doing", So i wouldn't of thought that this game was Afterburner, he isn't going to get the engines started up with that knowledge.

You might as well discuss the validity and purpose of this entire sim, since the conversation went off that path.

The same was said back in 2001 except the persons supposedly responsible had actual professional flight training. Media oops. I remember not being able to buy welding gasses and a grocery store employee flipping out because I left a cart 'unattended' full of their products inside the store. Later people were shot for not wearing masks at a dollar store with another event. That was the level of irrational paranoia not logically based.

'SkyKing' in the Dash 8-400 was a sad suicide case using other's big equipment and hopefully a prompt for better airport protocol standards.

There are tens of thousands of professionals from all over the world performing their precise duties within the USA every single day without incident. Loaded cargo ships arrive by the dozens. Open borders. Vulnerabilities.

But If you'd like to discuss Boeing and/or Spirit incidents this past year alone..