What's holding back KF1 players from switching to KF2?

[TheIrishWah]

Hey all, this is my first post in awhile but I've decided to become more active in the community. At any rate, I have been tasked by my friend and Creative Director for the game, Bill Munk, to find out what is holding back hardcore Killing Floor 1 players from switching over to it's sequel. Anything and everything is acceptable as I'll take most of the information and compile it into a list to send to him. Thanks you all in advance!

[TheIrishWah]

Also, please note that I have gone through other discussion threads and are looking at the feedback elsewhere than here. I'd just like it compiled into one post so it's easier for me to see.

[Nigel Thornberry]

There were 3 pages of comments that got deleted that perfectly said why kf1 fans wont move to kf2. Very sad. Somebody had even quoted my post and said that they had been lurking for a long time and had not been able to express what they felt they liked more about the first game and thought I did a pretty good job of summing it up. Then I play a game of kf2 come back and only 2 posts and the rest of the 3 pages gone.

[TheIrishWah]

Originally posted by Nigel Thornberry:

There were 3 pages of comments that got deleted that perfectly said why kf1 fans wont move to kf2. Very sad

I don't delete comments on post especially since I'm trying to get feedback.

[Nigel Thornberry]

I will try to repost what I said earlier but I know I won't be able to reproduce it very good from memory...

KF2 is simply too much of a departure from KF1 to attract the hardcore kf1 fans.

KF2 departed from the core mechanics of the original to make a kind of Killing Floor meets Call of Duty gameplay style. This style of gameplay it created is fun, but not up to par with the original.

I enjoy kf2 but I cant hop on and have as chill of a time because KF2 is too fast paced and littered with bullet sponge enemies.

The game is designed around the sprint so you must use it very often. You are constantly pushing shift all the time because you don't go anywhere otherwise. This means zeds are designed around you being able to sprint and are faster too.

What this leads to is running around these huge super detailed maps with very intricate placement of obstacles that you must go around while having some bullet sponge FP coming after you which until recently never stopped raging.

In the first game it took skill to know when to pull out your knife and evade and the whole game was designed around a slower walk pace which lead to a different kind of gameplay that lead you feeling less stressed. Also the enemies were not bullet sponges so you didn't have to shoot unnecessarily large amounts of bullets at them to kill them taking some of the fun out of the game.

I enjoy KF2 but I believe KF1 is the superior game.

I do not think you will get back the KF1 hardcore fans unless you completely change the core mechanics of KF2.

You won't get the Hardcore fans backunless you make KF1 with updated graphics as KF2 with a new mechanic here and there but as it is you changed the core of Killing Floor.

Also we don't like the random crates. I want to buy my weapons like in the first game no random stuff.

I have saved this post in my computer so if you have some mod delete these good posts I can post it back up more easily. Shame on you guys who deleted these good posts.

Also slow development of KF2 is not helping it.

KF1 also had a competently different art-style and many people miss the gritty look and feel of the original

I have played KF since 2009 and bought in 2010.

I have 1219 hours on KF1 and 314 Hours on KF2.

I like both games but KF1 is superior. Many people play kf1 just to support the playerbase of their favorite game and help their peers.

EDIT:Well this topic had 3 pages an hour ago and now just a couple comments so something happened.

[TheIrishWah]

Originally posted by Nigel Thornberry:

I will try to repost what I said earlier but I know I won't be able to reproduce it very good from memory...

KF2 is simply too much of a departure from KF1 to attract the hardcore kf1 fans.

KF2 departed from the core mechanics of the original to make a kind of Killing Floor meets Call of Duty gameplay style. This style of gameplay it created is fun, but not up to par with the original.

I enjoy kf2 but I cant hop on and have as chill of a time because KF2 is too fast paced and littered with bullet sponge enemies.

The game is designed around the sprint so you must use it very often. You are constantly pushing shift all the time because you don't go anywhere otherwise. This means zeds are designed around you being able to sprint and are faster too.

What this leads to is running around these huge super detailed maps with very intricate placement of obstacles that you must go around while having some bullet sponge FP coming after you which until recently never stopped raging.

In the first game it took skill to know when to pull out your knife and evade and the whole game was designed around a slower walk pace which lead to a different kind of gameplay that lead you feeling less stressed. Also the enemies were not bullet sponges so you didn't have to shoot unnecessarily large amounts of bullets at them to kill them taking some of the fun out of the game.

I enjoy KF2 but I believe KF1 is the superior game.

I do not think you will get back the KF1 hardcore fans unless you completely change the core mechanics of KF2.

You won't get the Hardcore fans backunless you make KF1 with updated graphics as KF2 with a new mechanic here and there but as it is you changed the core of Killing Floor.

Also we don't like the random crates. I want to buy my weapons like in the first game no random stuff.

I have saved this post in my computer so if you have some mod delete these good posts I can post it back up more easily. Shame on you guys who deleted these good posts.

Also slow development of KF2 is not helping it.

KF1 also had a competently different art-style and many people miss the gritty look and feel of the original

I have played KF since 2009 and bought in 2010.

I have 1219 hours on KF1 and 314 Hours on KF2.

I like both games but KF1 is superior. Many people play kf1 just to support the playerbase of their favorite game and help their peers.

EDIT:Well this topic had 3 pages an hour ago and now just a couple comments so something happened.

Oh I have two discussions open. One on KF1 and one on KF2.

[Detail.movie💕]

I can sit and play KF1 for 8 hours and never get bored (without mods) and I start falling asleep after only a few waves in KF2. I'm not trying to be rude! It's just, there's something about KF2 that doesn't keep me interested for very long, even on the harder difficulties. Maybe it's what Nigel Thorneberry said, the constant sprinting everywhere and the bullet sponge zeds... It gets old real quick.

I don't really have an opinion about the random drops and the items and stuff so doesn't bother me.

My wishlist for KF2:
-No sprinting. I find it really cheezy, don't know why.
-Make doors invincible and only break when it hits 0% weld integrity. It makes no sense to me that I'm keeping a door at 100% and then it breaks open randomly. Where's the fun in that? The doors have two hp bars, one you can't see or repair and one you can repair but it's obsolete because it breaks anyway.
-Bring back "Insult Players." Insult Players is funny and probably the most used diologue at trader.
-Bring back fixed weapon flashlights, remove the body flashlight because I find that really lame. Body flashlights take the suspense away.
-You can negate the "bullet sponge" part with maybe scripted kill moves or add more ways to kill them instead of pumping them with every gun you've got. The scrakes head in KF1 was easier to shoot so it added some strategy. Scrakes in KF2 bounce left and right, up and down, back and forth, he's doing a disco dance practically in every direction and it's nearly impossible to get an effective firing solution on his head which takes away the strategy and just turns it into a cheezy fire and run. I don't like constantly shooting and running and shooting and running and shooting and running etc... It's no fun.
-A lot of the gun sounds seemed flat, I think they need more pop and crack.
-Guns need more recoil.

Edit: I should make my point about shooting and running more clear. KF1 HOE is basically shooting and running, it's called kiting. I have no problem with that because there are multiple strategies to take down those zeds. In KF2, the only strategy there seems to be is running and shooting and it's a boring rinse and repeat. In KF1, the running and shooting stays interesting because of the fact that you can take out an FP yourself with a few headshots or nip their heads with berzerker weapons until you decapitate them. In KF2, those strategies seem largely obsolete because of the sprinting. There is only one thing you can do in KF2 and it's sprint. I don't want to sprint 24/7. In KF1 with different playstyles, you didn't always kite, there was a mix of playing with the zeds and teamwork and then you'd kite. The KF2 kiting is very blande.

That's all I can really think of.

I have nothing against Tripwire's sequel, I love the art direction and the special effects are all great, you guys nailed it in terms of appearance but it's just missing certain gameplay elements that are present in KF1. And that is why I am hesitant to leave the first game, KF1 feels more fun and enjoyable.

[Nex3t]

i have mixed feelings, as they say, KF1 was more slow paced, and that led to some strategy, but i also like the fact that the fp and scrake are now more tough and more moving, for it takes more a team strategy to beat them.
I think it depends on the team u are playing with, for example, i rarely play wit guys that are just running around, but we choose some "arena" and beat the waves there, no running arond the map (except when everyone dies and u just have to), with all this i mean that i really like kf1 and i really like kf2, i dont mind microtransactions, since i don't use that thing, to me its not important at all that my weapon looks shiny or not, so all that i get i sell it in the steam market.
Finally the thing that i don't quite like are the maps... to me the main problem are those maps, that farm map is one of the less creative maps that i have seen in my life, i mean, how long did u take to make it? like 2 hrs? its just a big square with 2 houses, u can do it better... man i really miss those big open maps of kf1, mountain pass and farm were the best, imo, but now i feel like opressed, this maps are too small.
so, that are my opinions, sorry for the english, i'm from México

[~Ren~]

Originally posted by thisguythatgame:

Hey all, this is my first post in awhile but I've decided to become more active in the community. At any rate, I have been tasked by my friend and Creative Director for the game, Bill Munk, to find out what is holding back hardcore Killing Floor 1 players from switching over to it's sequel. Anything and everything is acceptable as I'll take most of the information and compile it into a list to send to him. Thanks you all in advance!

No disrespect but the fact that you have to ask is why a lot of your hardcore fans are not even playing.

I've moved onto another game so hopefully the replies you get here won't fall on deaf ears.

[Miiiiiiiiiiiiike]

I just havn't had a look at Killing Floor 2 at all. I only know what I've seen in the short trailers that are shown in Killing Floor 1.

I might get it one day. But it's just not high on my list. Still, Killing Floor 1 is my most played game on Steam with around 500 hours.

[Mutant]

I have not played enough KF2 to go into depth, so I try it at a rather superficial level. I stopped playing after the Volter Manor update because the game at that state was not appealing to me, but I will give it another chance once it's done.
- I don't like the art design as much in KF2, but that's sth. I can adapt to. It feels a tad too cartoony to me.
- Another thing is the maps, in KF1 all of them are extremely atmospheric and moody. Every time I open BioticsLab I am astonished again by how great the map feels, I miss that in KF2. But that's also just arguing on a high level.
- The most important aspect is the gameplay change. The game changed from a strategic game, where each role had a defined meaning that contributes to teamplay, but could still shine in individual skill to an arcadic game, where you just have to mow them down. The big ones cannot be handelled alone, so the whole team has to get on them which defeats a bit the concept of perks.
Lame mechanics like teleports just add to the frustration.
In addition to that, I was expecting a revamped and improved AI that makes use of the power of UE3, and we just got another dumb "follow players" concept as in KF1, not even the "wallclimbing" crawlers made it into the game which I celebrated in one of the early trailers.
- The new adaptive difficulty is sth. I don't like as much. It just makes the difficulty non-linear to an extent where you have to ask whether this is the certain difficulty that has been configured. A lot of my hours in KF1 flowed into map challenges. That means finding the next insane spot in a map in order to see if it can be beaten and share that with other players. This is no longer possible as the game adapts to how well the players are doing, so you cannot compare two similar matches with one another anymore.
- Another thing that I missed are combos, which I think are not part of KF2 even tho it was promised in the beginning iirc. That's another feature that I spend a lot (!) of time with in KF1.

As a hint for TWI, please learn to master KF2 at the highest difficulty, otherwise you are not able to balance it properly. You missed that a bit with KF1, please don't do that with KF2 again.

[Jaegeras]

I'll only jump to KF2 if it's on a reasonable sale or someone gifts it to me. Sure it looks kinda fun, however, the transactioning system turns me off. Also, isn't that game still in early access? Geez, just finish it already.

I do not like it when strategy is taken from games and turned into brainless fun. Because, in KF1, you can reliably take out a Fleshpound/Scrake with well-placed headshots by the time you can afford grenade launchers. Even with the M79, just two to the head is all it takes.But to rely on everyone else on a regular basis? Lame.

I do like the dark atmosphere KF1 projects, it helps sets the tone. Some designs of the Zeds are hit or miss. I think the only KF2 designs I like are: Crawler and Siren. Don't really care for Hans and the new design of Patriarch is a great example of where the designs have gone.

[NikC-]

You can chill, type in chat, have a lots of fun, play with offperk weapons on weird spots and still beat the HOE. Because you can dedicate yourself to one role \ loadout, master it and successfully defend your whole team. There is always space to gitgud in KF 1. Nothing of that in kf2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQYpKnEIBd4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bx7KuglfeQ
If you want to know why kf 1 is such a good game you need to talk with ppl who are adequate, played this game for several thousands of hours and still do it (not talking about me - noob), invite them to one place where their opinions and thoughts will be respected and reviewed. And talk to them for a couple of of weeks. Then, maybe, you will have a general idea what is KF.
Because we all know the steam forums.. and the disregard and mess in TWI forums.

[LORD_FLUFFINGTON]

I know It's been beaten with a stick in forums but if you just removed teleportation it would make the game 30% more enjoyable. It totally breaks immersion and feels unfair like what sorcery is this? It would also allow for more strategy if you knew they werent going to teleport behind you after just seeing them in front.

[GunsForBucks]

First I don't need to upgrade my computer to play a new game ... that isn't out yet.
Next is controller issues... I use a joystick with keyboard emulation software ... from what I have read the game considers it a "controller" and tries to deal with it ... badly. If that issue is unresolved then I will never even buy the game.
Beyond that
... the game seems in some quazi-zone where it wants to appeal to collectors of all ages at the same time they have a "mature" game... this forms a split in the player base between the more casual collector types and more serious people to play the game. How the in game playing community irons out is anyones guess at this point as the game is still in development, but anyone who played KF for a while can tell you there was plenty of division in the KF1 gaming community just with the DLC.

Anyway I won't be rushing to buy KF2 anytime soon ... even after release... I will just wait for my computer to die, build a new one that can max out all the kf2 game settings and try it on a free weekend and pray my joystick does not just make me spin endlessly.
edit add - between the game and the SDK making maps I have over 5000 hours on KF

[WolfWrag]

well, here is a thing all kf1 vets wanted kf1 2.0 (better visuals, maybe more perks, maybe more mobs and so on), but kf2 are different game, other game mehc, other balance and so on ...

its not just kf1/kf2 its all other games aswell, ppl fall in love with first one, and hate on next one, the elder scrolls series are fine example...

for me its easy, if i feel like kf1 i play kf1, if i feel like kf2, i play kf2...