feedback/thoughts on Ex-Zodiac

[strawberry]

I like it a lot overall. There's a good variety of enemy types and encounters, and the presentation looks fantastic. I'm really glad I purchased it. Since I know you, the developer, listens to feedback posted here, I feel like I ought to write some.

The main thing that stuck out to me is that at times, the game feels almost like it's running at 1.25 or 1.5 speed of what it should be, or that it was balanced by a developer that is way too used with where the enemy spawn locations are and their attack timings and they just balance the game without realizing they're doing so already knowing everything that's coming ahead. I find myself not being able to react to enemy bullets very often and getting hit a lot. Moments also where there feels like it should have a longer pause or respite between different things happening but they all happen at once, with more enemies than what you can reasonably handle or parse. The weirdest thing is that I got S-ranks in two levels where I felt like I was just getting hit constantly, so is this normal? Is this the game's balance? Doesn't feel quite right to me...

Something related to the difficulty of dodging stuff is how it can feel nebulous to dodge certain attacks and projectiles that are homing at you - particularly the homing electric energy balls that some bosses shoot, and the tentacles of the sea monster boss. Because of the particular way the camera moves around as you move around, and granted, I feel this issue in Star Fox 64 as well, it can be tricky to parse whether you moved enough to get out of the way of something and whether you're at the "screen borders", and in these attacks that issue gets even worse. Clearer tells of the directionality and intention of the tentacle attacks would help, and so would some sort of "trail" effect for those homing energy spheres so you can quickly parse what direction they're angling towards when they're moving around, their speed, etc. The same type of electric energy sphere graphic gets used for non-homing bullets too? Which made me unsure whether they were homing at me or not and where to position myself.

Other people mentioned the aiming, and that's another thing too. I find myself missing my rapidfire shots more often than it feels normal to, or taking too long/needing to be a touch more precise than what it feels right to lock-on to enemies. A slight bit more leeway would be nice here, without making the lock-on or rapid-fire feel too aimless, of course. Someone else mentioned lacking power-ups and I feel the issue here is that most power-ups require destroying a specific enemy or running into a specific gap for them to spawn, which means players that aren't doing great at the game won't see them. Maybe some more power-ups that are just in the open would feel better for novice players, or figure out a way to have power-ups out in the open that are not necessarily "free" to get. Another issue I would run into constantly, regarding power-ups, is defeating an enemy that spawns one, only for it to be completely out of reach to me, because by the time I destroyed the enemy and the power-up spawned, I'm already halfway past the defeated enemy and can't possibly get to it. If power-ups that spawn from enemy deaths could be launched forward and center once they spawn, that would be a good way to avoid this issue, I feel.

A couple minor things:

It's a bit weird how there's two free-range stages back to back super late in the game, and none elsewhere. Shouldn't they be better spaced apart from one another...?

In the Space Harrier bonus levels, there isn't an indicator of how many lives you have left. I'm sure you're aware of this but I feel like I need to mention

Thanks for the game, I hope you find this feedback useful.

[strawberry]

note: just noticed that the Space Harrier bonus levels do have a health bar, I just didn't see it lol disregard that comment I guess

[Ben]

Thanks for the feedback!

You're definitely right that I've designed the levels around what feels 'good' to me, which obviously can put it in the harder difficulty for some, since I'm trying to make it more interesting and exciting for myself, who already knows what's going to happen etc. Sometimes it's tricky for me to get these things right, something that might feel boring to me (because I'm used to it) might be really exciting for someone else who hasn't seen it before. I guess this is why you get people to play test things (something I need to make use of more I guess!). As for the S-ranks you got, they're purely based on your score, and while taking damage does mean your score wouldn't be quite as high as it could have been, it doesn't play a huge factor. It's more about how many enemies you were able to shoot down and how quickly you destroy the boss etc.

I can certainly try and make some attacks easier to read, like giving the homing energy shots a trail as you suggested. As for re-using the energy shot sprites for non-homing attacks, I can't think where I would have done that... as far as I'm aware I've only used those sprites for homing shots as I didn't want to confuse people.

What's the issue you're having with lock-ons? As for the regular shots, I've tried to improve the aiming system a bit more so that there's a better chance you'll hit something if you aimed at it, although I think there's still room for improvement there. I've also increased the size of the hitboxes for some enemies and I'll probably tweak the hitboxes for the players lasers too so they're a bit more likely to collide.

Missing spawned items is definitely an issue I want to solve, as I've encountered that a number of times myself and know how frustrating it can be! I'll see if I can get a few more in the levels as well, I was just worried it would make the levels too easy, but I don't think fun has to be tied to things being difficult or challenging all the time.

As for the all-range stages being back-to-back, they won't be like this in the final game. Right now all the games levels are laid out linearly, so the map screen is basically acting as a free-play level select screen at the moment, but once I have enough levels done, I'll be introducing branching paths and the levels will be laid out differently.

[strawberry]

Hi!

I mentioned the first point because I figured that's a bit of what happened, as someone who has run into that issue designing levels a lot. The game does feel really good once you know what's coming up ahead, now that I've done these levels more (btw, score attacking feels really fun!), but it is a tad rough and overwhelming the first time. I wouldn't like the game to become slow-paced or boring, just a little bit of adjusting regarding that. It could also open up moments for you to have the dialogue cut in, as someone else in the forums also mentioned not being able to parse the dialogue due to the lack of relief in the action.

Originally posted by Ben:

As for re-using the energy shot sprites for non-homing attacks, I can't think where I would have done that... as far as I'm aware I've only used those sprites for homing shots as I didn't want to confuse people.

In the hoverbike level, the boss has an attack where he shoots three energy spheres in a rotating pattern, that uses the same graphics as the homing spheres. Maybe they're supposed to be homing too? If so, their homing property felt to me really downplayed compared to the regular attacks (and honestly I'm not sure they need to be homing either)

With the lock-ons, I would find myself not being able to lock-on to all enemies I wanted to in a pattern and just going "eh screw it" and launching the missiles before they went away, and trying to get the rest with my rapid shots. I know you need to upgrade your lock-on missiles to get more lock-ons at once, but it wasn't that, I just wasn't getting "MAX" in my reticle. Getting all my lock-ons in was a very rare occurrence considering I would be unable to lock on to as many enemies as I was trying to, usually just getting three at most, and resorting to rapid-fire for the rest. Maybe it's something to do with the tilting of the aim as you move your ship around, and I'm not considering the aim is going too far to the right or left, I'm not sure.

Regarding power-ups, maybe some way to signal whether an enemy is holding a power-up would be enough, so I can prioritize killing them and positioning myself to get the power-up properly, and so even novice players can see and understand that there's more power-ups in the level, even if they couldn't get them on their go at it. What would often happen is that I would kill enemies on one side of the screen, then quickly move to the other so I can get more incoming enemies, only to realize after moving that one of the enemies from the other side of the screen dropped a power-up, but by then it's too late, especially with the little split-second of "uh, should I immediately quit trying to get these enemies and just dash all the way over there?" indecision. I think power-ups here are a balancing act, if they're too free, then they don't feel like a reward or a choice the player is making, but I agree that fun doesn't need to be tied to difficulty always.

[Axelhander]

I thought the game speed felt perfect personally, and I wouldn't want it slowed too much from what it is (if at all).

^ Not a slight.

[Fendor Nagarok]

Perhaps these features are already in the works, but I think that the addition of online leaderboards and local split-screen multiplayer would massively fortify the lasting appeal of this title. There is a solid gameplay core currently present, but competitive modes would make it worth revisiting over its predecessors.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Fendor Nagarok:

Perhaps these features are already in the works, but I think that the addition of online leaderboards and local split-screen multiplayer would massively fortify the lasting appeal of this title. There is a solid gameplay core currently present, but competitive modes would make it worth revisiting over its predecessors.

I'm not against the idea of online leader boards, but I'd want to figure out a way to circumvent fraudulent scores/spam (if that's even possible) so that it doesn't ruin the fun for everyone. As for split-screen local multiplayer, that is something I'd like to experiment with and I have some rough ideas, although I can't promise anything. I think it would be neat, though!

[Fendor Nagarok]

Originally posted by Ben:

Originally posted by Fendor Nagarok:

Perhaps these features are already in the works, but I think that the addition of online leaderboards and local split-screen multiplayer would massively fortify the lasting appeal of this title. There is a solid gameplay core currently present, but competitive modes would make it worth revisiting over its predecessors.

I'm not against the idea of online leader boards, but I'd want to figure out a way to circumvent fraudulent scores/spam (if that's even possible) so that it doesn't ruin the fun for everyone. As for split-screen local multiplayer, that is something I'd like to experiment with and I have some rough ideas, although I can't promise anything. I think it would be neat, though!

Thank you for your reply, Ben. It's very encouraging to see a developer actively involved in conversation about their game.

I sometimes wonder about the legitimacy of some leaderboards, myself. For example, there is one account that is #1 on every leaderboard of Kaze and the Wild masks with times that I can't fathom are possible without breaking the game somehow. Sometimes there are valid techniques for exploiting certain mechanics, but when one name is at the top of every single ranking, with times greatly in advance of the next highest ranking, it makes me suspicious.

In Panzer Paladin, on the other hand, you can watch a replay of any speedrun to see just how the competition did it. I've found that this feature really boosts the enjoyment of competition to the next level, because players are able to learn from one another. I'd have never reached the top ten in the Canada Challenge without studying those replays.

Bottom line is: Ex-Zodiac is great fun, but at present it provides only what was already there to be had in StarFox or Space Harrier. Alternating between those two styles breaks up the action quite nicely, but its long-term success becomes more likely if it offers some feature that those other games don't.

Thank you for all your work on this project. Myself and many others are eagerly following it's development to see how things progress, because thus far things look very promising.

[Ruin N Gaun]

I never played Star Fox before but I too felt like my normal shots miss frequently. Perhaps it's the perspective x bullets moving x enemy moving that might make it hard for you to kinda predict where to aim. Perhaps making the projectile grow in size as they travel in distance might help, but would make the more precise aiming on some bosses easier.

It is really really fun though, one of the best game I had in a while. Wished the missile acquisition could go a bit faster to allow hitting some boss weak point a bit more consistent.

[foxhound101]

Hah, I'm amused that the developer commented on the biggest thing I noticed during my first play through. Which is the difficulty in collecting spawned items. Having an extra second or two to collect the items would help a lot here. Whether it’s the items move slower towards you, or they stay on the screen briefly before disappearing.

[Ruin N Gaun]

Could have them differently colored so you know when to prioritize, like the stage where you used the motorbike where you know that the enemy with items would be the one hovering with orange.

[Pcamarasa]

Originally posted by Ben:

Thanks for the feedback!

You're definitely right that I've designed the levels around what feels 'good' to me, which obviously can put it in the harder difficulty for some, since I'm trying to make it more interesting and exciting for myself, who already knows what's going to happen etc. Sometimes it's tricky for me to get these things right, something that might feel boring to me (because I'm used to it) might be really exciting for someone else who hasn't seen it before. I guess this is why you get people to play test things (something I need to make use of more I guess!). As for the S-ranks you got, they're purely based on your score, and while taking damage does mean your score wouldn't be quite as high as it could have been, it doesn't play a huge factor. It's more about how many enemies you were able to shoot down and how quickly you destroy the boss etc.

I can certainly try and make some attacks easier to read, like giving the homing energy shots a trail as you suggested. As for re-using the energy shot sprites for non-homing attacks, I can't think where I would have done that... as far as I'm aware I've only used those sprites for homing shots as I didn't want to confuse people.

What's the issue you're having with lock-ons? As for the regular shots, I've tried to improve the aiming system a bit more so that there's a better chance you'll hit something if you aimed at it, although I think there's still room for improvement there. I've also increased the size of the hitboxes for some enemies and I'll probably tweak the hitboxes for the players lasers too so they're a bit more likely to collide.

Missing spawned items is definitely an issue I want to solve, as I've encountered that a number of times myself and know how frustrating it can be! I'll see if I can get a few more in the levels as well, I was just worried it would make the levels too easy, but I don't think fun has to be tied to things being difficult or challenging all the time.

As for the all-range stages being back-to-back, they won't be like this in the final game. Right now all the games levels are laid out linearly, so the map screen is basically acting as a free-play level select screen at the moment, but once I have enough levels done, I'll be introducing branching paths and the levels will be laid out differently.

Hi! Proud backer here, sadly I'm not gluing at the moment with the game. I have a few issues that are taking from my general enjoyment of the game, and would love to hear your thoughts about them.

First, the game is beautiful! The SNES style took me a bit to get used to, but I like it a lot. And the color palette, the sound effects and the music. Great job.
Personal issues I have with the game:

1) I cannot read the story bits and play at the same time xD It's too much text to focus while been under fire. I understand why they speak "Lylat-esque" but I just can't do it.
Not easy solution I know but is a shame because I want to know about the lore and story of the game.
2) I've found that putting the sentitivy setting of the joystick beyond 100% helps A LOT with the feeling of the game, but it's not obvious that it can go that far (I was pleasently surprised, but surprised nonetheless). I think it needs a slider in wich 100% is in the middle, to make it more clear. It changes everything.
3) The missing spawned items is a huge inconvinience, because they appear to late and most of the time we can only see that we just miss them. My two cents are that better than a magnet effect, I would prefer for the power-up to "jump" forward and to the center of the screen or something like that, so we can see what it is, have an opportunity to grab it, and more important, a posibility to miss it. Risk, reward.
4) I'm usually not affected, but the bonus stages make me motion sick. Maybe the camera is too close? The harrier style is very welcome, but I think I will avoid them actively.ç
5) I'm currently stuck with the Octopuss boss in Oasi-5. It is not only a huge damage sponge and some of the attacks (as said by OP) are hard to dodge, I feel it could give some health back with some of the attacks, like a few of Starfox 64 final bosses. I know it was more of an exception than a rule, but I really feel that the hit bar is too big, the window of oppotunity too small and the damage of the tentacles too much xD.
I'm struggling with the bosses in general, to be fair.

I think that is all for now. I backed this game a long time ago, and I really like where it's going, that is why I thought to share my feedback, in hopes of it been helpful.
Sadly, is not entirely for me at this moment.
Nevertheless, good job so far.

Best regards from Spain

[Pcamarasa]

Ok, just passed the OASI-5 boss and I have to say GREAT JOB with XENON!
What a lovely concept (no spoilers) very pleased with the level. It was not only a great twist, here there is an example of the power-ups been easier to catch!
Again, great job ^_^

[Lagomorph]

OASI-5 boss definitely has too much health. I think if it took more like 3-4 cycles of his first stage that alternates between the tentacle attacks and the missile/laser turret you shoot instead of 5-10 it would be better.
The second stage of it isnt exactly much easier and I think the first stage just goes on too long. It just has too much health, its not that the attacks are too difficult.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Lagomorph:

OASI-5 boss definitely has too much health. I think if it took more like 3-4 cycles of his first stage that alternates between the tentacle attacks and the missile/laser turret you shoot instead of 5-10 it would be better.
The second stage of it isnt exactly much easier and I think the first stage just goes on too long. It just has too much health, its not that the attacks are too difficult.

I'll make some adjustments, that boss definitely needs some tweaks