Extremely slow and laggy interface

[thatwaseasy]

System Specs
CPU: Intel Core i5 2.4GHz
Memory: 16GB
Graphics: AMD Radeon R7 M260 2GB Ram
DirectX-11/12.

I've been using GG classic for quite some time and I have never had issues with
the interface or any of the maps being laggy or low in FPS. I've downloaded the demo
of GG Max and the interface is extremely slow, laggy menus and the map designer runs
at 5-10 FPS!!. My laptop has dual graphics cards (Intel and AMD dedicated with 2GB memory).
I've made certain that the dedicated hardware GFX is being used as I can monitor it's
performance, it's pegged out at 95% on an empty map with all settings low!!.

Please do not reply to this post with comments about upgrading my laptop
or buying a more expensive video card. I don't have any problems with any of my
game collections. I can run games like Teardown, BeamNG and Arma 3 with good framerates upto 40-50 FPS with low graphics settings. I know even 40-50 FPS is not great but I'm perfectly happy with any FPS above 30.

The GG Max game engine graphics or effects no more impressive than some of the games I play mentioned above. I know for certain that my laptop with dedicated graphics can take anything thrown at it with a few tweaks, I've not had a single game struggle with it apart from this GG Max engine.

So why would the GG Max interface and map editing be so slow ? or that it would require a $500 graphics card with 8GB of memory to run it ??

Why can I run more CPU/Video intensive game titles like Teardown and BeamNG perfectly fine ? When these game engines have much more detailed and impressive effects and modelling ??

[tenser-spencer]

The store page clearly states there are minimum system requirements.

MINIMUM:
Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
OS: Windows 10 or newer (64-bit versions only)
Processor: Intel Core i5-7400 | AMD Opteron 4274 HE, or better.
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 | AMD Radeon R9 Fury, with 4 GB VRAM, or better
DirectX: Version 12
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 30 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX Compatible Sound Card with latest drivers
Additional Notes: Windows-compatible keyboard and mouse

4gb video card. By today's standards, it is not unreasonable or high end for the graphics output.

I am building my game on a GTX 980, and maintaining a 60 fps. GGMax runs without lag.

[Mav3rick]

According to technical city, a popular benchmarking site "According to our data, the closest NVIDIA alternative to Radeon R7 M260 is GeForce GTS 150M, which is slower by 1% and lower by 4 positions in our ranking." Plus it's a notebook, and the minimum specs are based on desktop performance. Notebook versions of GPUs are usually underpowered to their desktop brethren. Max certainly isn't without its issues, some bigger, some smaller,.but yout System is below minimum spec

[thatwaseasy]

Originally posted by tenser-spencer:

The store page clearly states there are minimum system requirements.

MINIMUM:
Requires a 64-bit processor and operating system
OS: Windows 10 or newer (64-bit versions only)
Processor: Intel Core i5-7400 | AMD Opteron 4274 HE, or better.
Memory: 16 GB RAM
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 970 | AMD Radeon R9 Fury, with 4 GB VRAM, or better
DirectX: Version 12
Network: Broadband Internet connection
Storage: 30 GB available space
Sound Card: DirectX Compatible Sound Card with latest drivers
Additional Notes: Windows-compatible keyboard and mouse

4gb video card. By today's standards, it is not unreasonable or high end for the graphics output.

I am building my game on a GTX 980, and maintaining a 60 fps. GGMax runs without lag.

Thanks for the reply but I have 64bit OS and plenty of memory and i7 core is not much better than an i5 core for a video game that relies on the video card.

My laptop (cpu and video) are way below minimum specs for all the games that I play but not a single game so far has struggled. Like I said, BeamNG, TearDown, HumanFallFlat and Arma3 I can get pretty good playable frame rates on low settings. These games recommend pretty much the same minimum hardware requirements for GG Max.

I can't really justify upgrading and spending $1000's on hardware for a click and play FPS creator. Wouldn't be too bad if there were DirectX11 or OpenGL fallback driver or lower shader support for the not so wealthy gamers out there. Not everyone wants 60+ fps and maxed out graphics. I've wasted too much money in the past on the upgrade your PC route for software developed on high-end systems and not a thought on those with low-end systems.

Yeah, my laptop specs may be laughable to many out there but it's rock solid and can take anything I throw at it. I think the problem with GG Max is the heavy DirectX12 usage and Shader model that my laptop is struggling with. If the developers would add an option to disable all the eye candy and fixed shader effects they would likely have more users of their software. A hardware upgrade is a lenghty and failure prone process so I for one will not be going down that route.

[thatwaseasy]

Originally posted by Mav3rick:

According to technical city, a popular benchmarking site "According to our data, the closest NVIDIA alternative to Radeon R7 M260 is GeForce GTS 150M, which is slower by 1% and lower by 4 positions in our ranking." Plus it's a notebook, and the minimum specs are based on desktop performance. Notebook versions of GPUs are usually underpowered to their desktop brethren. Max certainly isn't without its issues, some bigger, some smaller,.but yout System is below minimum spec

Thanks, yeah it's below minimum spec for all the games that I play but only GG max gives me terrible performance. I'm starting to think that the problem is with the game engine as the GUI interface should be able to cope at least. The performance is actually better with a very minimal small map loaded. When I load into MAX all the menus and buttons have a 2 second delay when I click or select them. I'm not sure what was used to develop the interface but it's slow as heck and pegs out my video card. You can forget the suggestion that I upgrade my laptop to a GTX 970 or AMD Radeon R9 in order to have a lag free GUI.

I don't think there could be a minimum spec for anything as it is not possible to test the performance on every system configuration out there. I've had great performance in games where I've been far below the minum spec in both memory and cpu/gpu. The only minimum spec for me is a PC or a laptop and then tweak the settings to get it playable :)

[Teabone]

with only a 2GB GPU i doubt you would get good performance in even Game Guru Classic... tbh.

[thatwaseasy]

Hi, thanks for the reply.
I'm running GG classic using the laptop and gpu at the moment with a constant 60fps. GG classic loads up within 5 secs and everything works perfectly smooth from the editor to the game running on medium settings (I have to disalbe bloom and SAO as these really drop the fps). AFAIK GG uses DirectX11 which is what my card was designed for and I have since found out that GG Max is DirectX12 only.

I can only assume that either my card is running in software or cpu render mode or there is an issue with GG Max. I'm leaning towards my gfx card though.

[synchromesh]

Originally posted by thatwaseasy:

Hi, thanks for the reply.
I'm running GG classic using the laptop and gpu at the moment with a constant 60fps. GG classic loads up within 5 secs and everything works perfectly smooth from the editor to the game running on medium settings (I have to disalbe bloom and SAO as these really drop the fps). AFAIK GG uses DirectX11 which is what my card was designed for and I have since found out that GG Max is DirectX12 only.

I can only assume that either my card is running in software or cpu render mode or there is an issue with GG Max. I'm leaning towards my gfx card though.

Max is DX11, But uses an entirely different engine.

[thatwaseasy]

I was told minimum specs were a DX12 gfx card ? Classic is DX11 so if you say Max is also DX11 then how can it be a completley different engine ? What makes it different than classic ?

[Mav3rick]

Max IS DX11, its different because its literally built on top of an older version of the Wicked Engine, which itself was DX11. Wicked is the graphical engine used by max, rather than one built by TGC.

[tenser-spencer]

The minimum specs are a 4 gb GPU, whether it is using DX11 or DX12 driver software, your hardware is insufficient, and no amount of arguing will change that.

[thatwaseasy]

Originally posted by Mav3rick:

Max IS DX11, its different because its literally built on top of an older version of the Wicked Engine, which itself was DX11. Wicked is the graphical engine used by max, rather than one built by TGC.

Ok, that's interesting to know, so I guess there will be no support for OpenGL or Vulkan in the furture then ?

[thatwaseasy]

Originally posted by tenser-spencer:

The minimum specs are a 4 gb GPU, whether it is using DX11 or DX12 driver software, your hardware is insufficient, and no amount of arguing will change that.

Yup, I'm underpowered but no harm in trying. I thought if I could tweak all the settings to absolute minimum and disable all the shaders I might get away with only 2GB vram.

[Mav3rick]

Originally posted by thatwaseasy:

Originally posted by Mav3rick:

Max IS DX11, its different because its literally built on top of an older version of the Wicked Engine, which itself was DX11. Wicked is the graphical engine used by max, rather than one built by TGC.

Ok, that's interesting to know, so I guess there will be no support for OpenGL or Vulkan in the furture then ? [/quote
If TGC decide to complete the work they started toward moving to DX12, which would then allow for GGMax to move over the the latest version of the Wicked engine (which is DX12 and Vulcan) then they may look at Vulcan as an additional/alternative. I think the last stable release of OpenGl was back in 2017

[thatwaseasy]

Originally posted by Mav3rick:

Originally posted by thatwaseasy:

Ok, that's interesting to know, so I guess there will be no support for OpenGL or Vulkan in the furture then ? [/quote
If TGC decide to complete the work they started toward moving to DX12, which would then allow for GGMax to move over the the latest version of the Wicked engine (which is DX12 and Vulcan) then they may look at Vulcan as an additional/alternative. I think the last stable release of OpenGl was back in 2017

Well I'm still using the Classic and it's still as impressive as it was 5 years ago. I guess the community will also play a large part in the progression of GG Max as it did with the Classic and Reloaded products.