I don't know how I feel about the true ending and a few other story things ( MAJOR SPOILERS)

[Magus]

Topic. Just finished the true ending on the game pass version and I have really mixed feelings. Zale and Valere never find out why they were betrayed so as far as they know Erlina and Brugaves woke up one day and decided to end the world, which feels like a major loss for the protag's character development. Cael and co. just kinda appear and it's never really explained why or how they got to the castle.

Even though I was happy to get Garl back, bringing him back felt like it diminished the emotional climax that was his sacrifice a lot. He's arguably the real protagonist though and having him in the ending was nice so it's a mixed bag. I feel like Aephorul's ending was a huge let down though. Why fight him if he's just going to disappear anyway? Ia Re'shan going to stop or reform him somehow? It seemed like the plot was building to Re'shan finding a way to end the cycle and take responsibility for their conflict but considering he shows up and helps Aeph up and leaves with him while saying absolutely nothing, I have no idea how to interpret that aspect. Making us get every single conch for the true ending was really frustrating. I had 33/60 when I beat the game and then had to spend 4-5 hours getting the rest. Felt very tedious.

All that being said I still loved the game and will recommend it to people. How do other people who have gotten the true ending feel?

[ZexxCrine]

Something something chrono’s sacrifice from chronotrigger

That said yeah all the endings were hot garbage. It doesn’t help that for whatever reason they decided to walk back on the dweller of strife becoming the demon king from the messenger which begs the question of where the heck the demon king actually came from. The fleshmancer even says that the dweller of strife+the 4 acolytes will be a ruler in the future. But no we had to get a half baked space shooter boss at the end for some reason.

I mean look. Here is the dweller of strife
https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thereviewgeek.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2023%2F09%2Fsea-of-stars-clockwork-screen-17.jpg&tbnid=AL-rbMMlcM0ZOM&vet=12ahUKEwjvnOyV0I-BAxWQLN4AHeVPCJsQMygJegQIARBr..i&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thereviewgeek.com%2Fseaofstars-walkthrough-clockworkcastle%2F&docid=d8T_8_-EGwVttM&w=659&h=357&itg=1&q=dweller%20of%20strife&hl=en-us&client=safari&ved=2ahUKEwjvnOyV0I-BAxWQLN4AHeVPCJsQMygJegQIARBr

Here is the eyeball form the demon king takes
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-messenger-2018/images/8/83/Demon_King_Eyeball.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20190627015644

So that eyeball plus the 4 acolytes would be the demon king
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/the-messenger-2018/images/2/21/DemonKing_EndQuest1_16_6.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20190627014541

[Magus]

If I was going to be extremely generous I'd say maybe the world eater at the end is the acolytes+DOS's new form but we're never told where it comes from. The literal last minute world eater is almost more upsetting than the other unanswered stuff.

[Army of Optimists]

The Dweller + the 4 Acolytes does become the Demon King. It's just not shown on screen. They get taken away and never seen again, and you've just put the images together that explain the connection. Same thing with Garl and Teaks at the end. Without playing the Messenger, it just looks like they built a big bowl in the crypt for no real reason. As is, I'm still not entirely sure why they did it.

Cael and co. just kinda appear and it's never really explained why or how they got to the castle.

Teaks has a story called "The Clockwork Castle" that explains where Cael and Co. came from. Aephorul basically recruited them to help with a time experiment and gave them the tools to build the Castle, but they figured out how the castle worked and sabotaged it discreetly. Instead of being a device to control time, it became a prison where time didn't flow. In retribution, he locked the doors and kept them inside for 100 years so if they ever stepped out, they'd age and die instantly.

Aside from that, I agree that the game's ending seems at odds with its themes. I also thought that the end goal was going to be to break the cycle that Reshan and Aephorul were perpetuating. In the end, it doesn't seem like the protagonists accomplished much. A temporary reprieve for their worlds, but we know thanks to the Messenger that it goes to hell in the future. No idea why Reshan peaces out or why he comes back to get Aephorul.

It's a shame because Act 2, especially the first moment Aephorul appears, is incredible. The dialogue between him and Reshan indicating rivalry but also respect between the two, Reshan being too concerned with his experiments and secrets instead of the impact on lives, and Aephorul almost begging to be stopped when he points out that Reshan could beat him at any time.

I said it in another thread, but it feels like 30% of the third act was cut. Zale and Valere start being referred to as Solen and Luana almost out of nowhere, their "ascension" has very little fanfare, and at the end they suddenly have godlike abilities and defeat a World Eater with little effort? Reshan just leaves without explanation and doesn't say anything for the rest of the game because he finds out Aephorul was more evil than he'd calculated? A lot of plot threads fall by the wayside (including the aforementioned Acolytes and Dweller) to force connections to the Messenger, too.

Overall, it's a very good game, but the ending leaves a lot to be desired.

[Magus]

I totally agree. Thanks for the castle context. I missed that item. That moment in Act 2 was where I fully bought in, and I thought for sure the ending was going to be Reshan ending or permanently imprisoning Aeph after realizing he was too far gone. The scene where he realizes what Aeph did to make him the Great Eagle definitely seemed to be him realizing that Aeph was way worse for way longer than Reshan thought, and I really thought that was going to lead to a final confrontation after being changed by traveling with the party, and there was zero payoff.

Also, Reshan makes a huge deal out of refusing to fight DOS but has no problem with the puppet fighting the dweller in Serai's world and Aeph later? I was so confused

[ZexxCrine]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Army of Optimists:

The Dweller + the 4 Acolytes does become the Demon King. It's just not shown on screen. They get taken away and never seen again, and you've just put the images together that explain the connection.

That’s not true at all. They are seen again. They become the world eater that you beat at the ending. All of the extra heads on the boss are covered in thorns because of the vampire rose that kept them alive and the final head of the world eater is the dweller of strife. You kill it, it explodes and then roll credits.

[Army of Optimists]

Opprinnelig skrevet av ZexxCrine:

Opprinnelig skrevet av Army of Optimists:

The Dweller + the 4 Acolytes does become the Demon King. It's just not shown on screen. They get taken away and never seen again, and you've just put the images together that explain the connection.

That’s not true at all. They are seen again. They become the world eater that you beat at the ending. All of the extra heads on the boss are covered in thorns because of the vampire rose that kept them alive and the final head of the world eater is the dweller of strife. You kill it, it explodes and then roll credits.

No one in the game says that's what they became or hints at it. I even went back and watched a video of the boss. There's a few spikes or horns here and there. One head has something that resembles thorns. There are also five heads and nothing that looks like the Dweller of Strife. In addition, it's stated that World Eaters take a long time to grow - decades or centuries, at least. The Acolytes and the Dweller of Strife wouldn't have become one in such a short period.

A dev could say for sure, but otherwise I don't see the evidence to suggest it's definitely the Acolytes + Dweller.

[PimpToad]

So I watched the alternate ending on youtube as I didn't want to go hunting for all the conches. Wouldn't it be more fitting to call this "true" ending a "good" ending instead?

Did anything fundamentally change from the normal/regular ending I'm not aware of? Other than removing the emotional impact of the normal ending, the good ending is pretty much the same right? Can argue there were some changes like goatlina living, but that's irrelevant for this game at least. What else am I missing here?

If it's not obvious enough, I'm not a big fan of the good ending. I'm highly critical of any story that implements time travel shenanigans and the use of it to reverse a core story moment is...just bad. Like Aerith lives bad. Why even bother calling it a swan song (which btw was probably the best part of the game) when you'll just invalidate it with an encore later on?

Some of the most memorable moments in all of media is a good death scene. That impact sticks with you and for better or worse what you will most likely remember years down the road. And this game just said nope to that.

Anyway that's my mini-rant for my biggest issue with the game. Still a good experience, but kinda started fumbling towards the end. Wouldn't go so far as to say it didn't stick the landing, but the landing it did stick was less impressive than what I was expecting.

[Magus]

I agree about Garl. It's nice to see the possible future where he becomes the leader of Mirth, and the last scene of him cooking for his friends after all those years is very sweet, but not enough to justify reversing his death. I think the only thing meaningful that changes is that you could argue they've proven that they're safe from Aeph by actually beating him, but that seems like an implication at best. Plus it's hard to argue that anyway if you consider how the world gets corrupted in The Messenger

[Argosyn]

While I still enjoyed the game - I’m very bothered by all the plot holes and cliffhangers. I really hope we don’t have to wait for the next game for resolution…
Why does the giant eagle (Resh’an) kidnap solstice babies to train and fight the fleshmancer…only to save his ass in the end with absolutely no explanation?
I also didn’t like how Serai looked and sounded relieved that the fleshmancer was gone in the end - but he could just come back one day…just felt like the wrong reaction from her.
Just have a lot of unanswered questions and I really don’t want to wait another 5+ years for the next story, 😭

[Magus]

Totally agree about Serai, that was my biggest issue with Aeph surviving. If I remember correctly, I think Resh'an basically says that solstice warriors and dwellers are in a proxy war for himself and Aeph because they caused too much damage when fighting themselves so they agreed that they would honor whichever side, the warriors or the dwellers, ended up defeating the other on a given world and they'd leave that world to the victor. So Resh'an leaving with Aeph in the end is in line with that agreement. Now as to why Resh'an would be ok with that when he supposedly has compassion for mortals I have no idea and that's a bigger question for me.

[Kaisha]

Yup, it's a mess. There's some real issues with the timing of all this as well. Resh says that he split the worlds to buy him time to stop Aeph, but then that means one of the worlds must be the OG. It can't be the world you start on (z/v's world), since Serai's world is older. On top of the B'st suggests he is older than Resh. Then we have the bit about Aeph making Resh's eagle potion from the bird people on Serai's world BEFORE Resh and Aeph had their falling out and hence before the worlds were split.

But then, we also have all this stuff on z/v's world about the ovates, guardians, prophecies, etc... that imply z/v's world is older than the split.

In the end I don't think this was all really thought through.

[Magus]

How do the Ovates and other stuff imply their world is older? The only time I remember them mentioning anything in relation to this was Reshan giving consciousness to the guardian after the Ovates built it, but I understood that as Reshan deciding to pop by one day and not necessarily that he wasn't around before them

[Kaisha]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Magus:

How do the Ovates and other stuff imply their world is older? The only time I remember them mentioning anything in relation to this was Reshan giving consciousness to the guardian after the Ovates built it, but I understood that as Reshan deciding to pop by one day and not necessarily that he wasn't around before them

If they created the world, then Reshan didn't. it's one or the other.

The game states that Reshan created all the worlds/timelines by splitting one into many (in hopes of buying time to figure out how to beat Aeph). The game also states the ovates created the world. The game also states that B'st is older than Resh and that Serai's world existed before the split.

These things can't all be true.

[Magus]

Isn't it possible that the Ovates created Serai's world which Resh divided into multiple timelines at some point? Then all 3 of those things could be true. My understanding was that Resh "created" multiple timelines and such by splitting things but he didn't necessarily create the original world that he split into other worlds. The fact that Resh got his eagle powers before the world split and the bird people confirm that his eagle powers came from them seems to support that idea