What would adding armour to infantry do?

[Swiftyhorn]

Trying to figure out how to make Warhammer 40k space marines and Dreadnaught.

1) Do I class them infantry and add armour? Does this even work?
2) Do I make them vehicles?
3) What's the exact calculation for armour penetration etc? The guide says infantry do 10% damage, unless I misinterpreted it, tbh it's written strange.
4) If I make them vehicles, does it affect them negatively with terrain etc? In which case maybe infantry is best.
5) How would jump pack troops work (assault marines)? Are they paratroopers technically? Maybe they are a plane, but unload as a plane when fighting.

Any help appreciated, especially from the dev or someone with knowledge from the dev

Ps: I own on android and will buy on steam if I can figure out how to do the mod I want to do, I don't really play the base game at all

[Raoule]

Hello!

Great idea with a 40k mod, that will be very welcome by the community!

For your questions:
1. It works to give them armor to reduce incoming damage (as long as they are infantry type). It will also disable the transport options and let them get attacked by enemies soft damage value fyi
2. IF you make them vehicle type, then the stat used for attacking them is hard damage of the enemy unit
3. If infantry they receive a fraction of armor protection only (could be 10% but i am not sure...). If they are set as vehicles, full armor applies. Calculation is damage (hard or soft depending on type) - armor value (or a fraction of it if infantry type iirc). You can do some tests about the damage breakdown display, its holding finger on the target (not sure, since i play PC).
4. Yes, terrain penalties will apply then for the units set as vehicles. The battles ALWAYS take place in defenders hex. So if you set them as vehicles and the fight takes place in urban or heavy terrain, they get a penalty. Also they cant enter very heavy terrain anymore, like marsh and mountains.
5. Jump packs are tricky to use, paratrooper mechanic needs to be on top of an airport to be able to switch state to flying mode. So it wont work as a jump pack, more like a paratrooper air transport.
IF you set them planes, they are flying all the time and and cant be attacked by anything ground based. They are fully set up air units then.
So, i am not sure a jump pack will work with current game mechanics, except i forgot to mention something...

All the best with your mod, just ask back if you need any more hints. You can also join the discord to get more and faster answers for any questions.
Have a nice one!

[Swiftyhorn]

So what about adding 10x the armour to infantry? Since only 10% is used.

I did some maths to convert codex tabletop stats to this games stats.

Example:

Health/Unit Strength
1) Number of units is Model Count x Toughness x Wounds
2) Vehicles would have an additional multiplier on top to account for model count difference. Unsure exactly what yet

Armour
1) Armour, requires toughness above 5. Then for every save value, multiply toughness difference by 5. So 6 toughness is 1, 7 is 2.
A 3+ save is 20, so toughness 8, 3+ save is 20x3 = 60 armour
2) Then for every invulnerable save adds a flat 5 afterwards

This gives ork trukks 50 armour, chimera 80, baneblade 200, armoured Sentinel 75 etc.

Bear in mind that damage would be recalculated based on attacks, strength, damage and ballistic skill in a similar fashion. Where strength above 5 goes towards hard damage.

Soft damage:
1) Strength x damage X attacks X model count all divided by difference in ballistic skill. So a 4+ would half this damage for instance.
2) it would be cumulative of the exact models in the group, so say 6 lasguns, 1 last pistol, plus other weapons manually calculated and added together and then averaged out based on squad size.
3) Same idea for vehicles, take all of their weapons and merge them into 1 averaged value.
4) Flamers have no ballistic skill division since they auto hit.
5) Things like rapid fire 1 would add 50% stats on top averages out. I would use all the special terms in a consistent logical way.

Hard damage
1) Strength above 5 x damage X attacks
2) Armour penetration adds flat 10 hard damage afterwards (so -1 is 10, -2 is 20)
3) Same as above, weapons tags will be brought into the calculations in a consistent logical way.

Weapons range
0) This is tabletop style, so not like 2km per hex, but more ranged and multiple hex ranges for guns
1) take all weapons of the squad or vehicle, then for every 6 inches, it has 1 hex range.
2) exceptions: flamers will reduce range of entire squad to adjacent only, but have no ballistic skill penalty and have flamer tag in hex of steel
3) melee is similar but without the flamer tag
4) Melts is same as flamer but 2 hex range, multi meltas is 3
5) most other weapons are an average of all their ranges, note these are rounded down to nearest 6 after adding up

Movement ranges
1) every 2 inches on the tabletop is 1 hex, may change this slightly, some other rules would apply.
2) melee only units gain double this
3) jump pack troops gain triple
4) transport added to a unit would increase this also, but in a consistent way, so you would buy either or without transport (not the hex of steel transport system)

[Swiftyhorn]

Current issues. Space marines need armour naturally I think. Their small squad size also means they have less stats than things like orks so would need some base line stats to work off.

If a baneblade has 200 armour, is it essentially immune? Can it not take like minimum 10% damage or something. Is it ok if it's immune to non anti tank weapons? Like you need a big weapon to kill big tank idea

Likewise, is it ok for a chimera to be immune to lasguns? Do we care, we just take a missile or lascannon to it

[Raoule]

Awesome information, relly deep concept already and VERY nice! I am sadly no expert for the details about different units, i did not play the board game.
But a fun fact is that i talked last week with a buddy who plays it that i may hop in too.
So this is a very cool coincidence for my favourite PC game and the boardgame activity with my real life buddy!

You should try out some stuff and keep in mind that there are a ton of settings, game options and unit editor stuff.

You cant deal fixed damage, but can set all kind of stats and also you can use recon (adding 15% to allies attacks when aside the target) or flamethrower (ignores terrain defense and entrenchment and may also bypass armor, really not sure about that one tbh)
As i said, the damage breakdown should help you clarifying the calculations you wanna use

[Swiftyhorn]

K so I think I've figured out how to do hard damage, figuring out armour and hard damage is going to be key for consistency.

So (Strength x Damage (average is dice roll), x Attacks, x Inverse of Armour Pen) divide all by ballistic skill calculation. Il explain below.

1) Lascannon - Strength 12, Damage D6+1 (3+1), Attacks 1, AP -3 (Inverse is 3),
= 12*4*1*3 = 144. Then we take ballistic skill into account. In this example an armoured Sentinel is BS4+, so half the time it hits, so simply half the damage. = 72
So a Lascannon has 72 Hard Damage

2) MeltaGun, in this example it's 10th edition cadian Shock troop who have BS4+.
Strength 9, Damage D6(3), Attack 1, AP-4.
Meltas have a special rule that says +2 damage if within half range, I will average this and give them +1 damage so D6+1 = 4 average
= 9*4*1*4 = 144 /2 = 72
So same as Lascannon (but they have short range ofc)

3) Plasma Cannon from armoured Sentinel, BS4+.
We use the supercharged variant for hard, and the other one for soft.
Strength 8, Damage 2, Attack D3 (1.5), AP -3.
This weapon has Blast keyword, this adds +1 attack for every 5 models targeted, for this mod I would use a simple +1 Attack. So attack becomes D3+1 (2.5)
So 8*2*2.5*3 = 120 / 2 = 60
Less than Lascannon and melts, but still nice

4) Krak missile from armoured Sentinel
Strength 9, Damage D6 (3), Attack 1, AP -2
So 9*3*1*2 = 54/2 = 27
Almost half of the plasma cannons

5) Krak grenade launcher from cadian Shock troops
Strength 9, Damage D3 (1.5), Attack 1, AP -2
So 9*1.5*1*2 = 27 /2 13.5 = 13
Around half of the krak missile, so maybe against light vehicles it can work

Tldr:
1) Leman Russ battle cannon 120
2) Lascannon and melts gun 72
3) Plasma cannon 60
4) Krak missile 27
5) Krak grenade 13

[Swiftyhorn]

Leman Russ battle cannon
Strength 10, Damage D6+3 (6), Attacks 3 + blast (4), AP-1
So 10*6*4*1 = 240/2 = 120

[Swiftyhorn]

Not fully figured out armour yet. But we would want lascannon and melta guns to destroy normal armour. So 72 hard damage should be good amount.

In the vanilla game
Early Light tanks have 15 (about same as ork trukk?)
Early Medium tanks have 20
Stag hounds 35-40
heavy tanks have between 85 and 100 armour average.
We would want rhino and chimera to be medium I guess, so maybe 40. Leman Russ would be 80-90? Baneblade 120. Something like that. I need a calculation though, I don't want to guess when I can use one universally for all units


Hard damage from vanilla;
Light tanks deal 50
Medium deal 55
Heavy deal 85-125 (leman Russ here deals 120)
At units deal 25-35 (our at Krak missile does 27, so not far off)
2 pounder does 50
6 pounder does 65 (our plasma cannons deals 60, so in-between 2 pounder and 6 pounder)
17 pounder does 90 (Lascannon does 72, so in-between 6 pounder and 17 pounder)

I need to test what 27 hard would even do Vs 40 armour. In tabletop it would still have a chance to kill so.

[Swiftyhorn]

Ok so after testing, I would need 2 different calculations. Infantry only deal with 10% of targets armour. But vehicles deal with 100%

So a Lascannon with 72 damage on infantry Vs 40 armour, does 68 damage
Lascannon on vehicle is 32 damage

A Krak missile on infantry would do 23 damage
But on vehicle would do 0 (-13)

[A Corsican Frog]

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