PBEM is the future

[Scum]

FIrst of all, this game is blessed with the most responsive developer I have ever seen, and I can almost guarantee that he will read and consider this post.

I hate to say it, but PBEM is broke in this game. Please allow me to make some suggestions - all in the hope that the game will continue to evolve and be all that it can be.

The developer stated in another thread that he farmed out the PBEM part of the game and does not have the skill set himself to make major changes. Fair enough. But consider that in order to survive and become great, I really think that the system must be overhauled. If this requires another round with a PBEM expert, so be it. (I know, easy for me to say).

Here are my suggestions:

1. A system to allow the PBEM player to see his opponents move is nearly mandatory.

2. A new chat system should be installed. The developer stated that the game recognizes in-game chat, but I can't see how. Every time I click chat (in or out of a PBEM game) I see the currently active global chat. This is useless for PBEM purposes. A robust in-game chat systems allows opponents to communicate and set up new games.

3. Currently, every game that I try to host (using the PVP1 map) results in my being Soviet. A host needs to be able to select which side he/she will play.

4. The map list should really be reorganized. Right now, it's very difficult to navigate. Quick games and Campaigns seem to be the same thing. Also, looking for a map is often difficult as the alphabetical order is skewed. Here are just a few examples: Battle of Midway should just be Midway and found under the letter M, not B. Campaign for Low countries would be much easier as Low Countries, found under the letter L. Defense of Berlin should be just Berlin, found under the letter B. I could go on, but you get the idea. I would also move the Tutorial to the top of the list.

5. PBEM hosted games need to have the option of password protection to ensure that a game made for a specific individual will be available for him/her to play.

In conclusion, without a robust and user-friendly multiplayer (PBEM) system, this awesome game will never reach its full potential and players will soon move on to the next game.

One final thought: Those of you who play games like COD, think, would you still be playing if it was just the campaign game? For most people, I expect the answer would be no – it’s all about multiplayer.

[A Corsican Frog]

Hi Scum!

Thanks for your post

Of course I read it :p

So... no, I can't agree with that, it's not broken, it is perfectly functional in the way I intended it to work :)

I hired somebody to take care of all the server backend, yep, because I have absolutely zero knowledge in server and I am sorry to have to say this but this is an entirely different universe with different programming languages (SQL, python) different APIs basically different everything, and I have am not appealed by it at all
This is NOT my field and I am very not interested in backend, that is why if anything happens it won't be me working on this but someone will be hired
It's not even about major changes, I just simply have no idea what's going on there!
I don't know if you know what programming is, but making a game and managing a server and handling all that is usually not a single person's job, it's a two person job
So again, yep, I cannot do anything myself (I couldn't even give you the list of current games being hosted!)

1) I understand. But I would need to re do the whole game. Like the game as a whole just doesn't support this. You already have a full notification system telling you what you missed. If you want to see your opponent's turn at this point, you should consider playing in real time multiplayer.
I am sorry but at this point I am simply not considering redoing the whole code base and way data is handled "just to see your opponent's moves"

2) Hem, when you are in a PBEM game it actually isn't the general chat that is displayed but is a private chat between you and the player that is saved between games, so you can chat with your opponent asynchronously :)
Okay, good luck finding opponents without a global chat then :)
Again, you can chat already in PBEM privately with your opponent.
If for whatever reason it is not working then it broke and nobody reported it to me and that shall be fixed in no time

3) The way PBEM was designed is the person joining always start. You currently cannot host and then play the first turn.
I am afraid this won't be changed because this is in the server's and for the same reasons stated above I cannot do anything about it except hiring someone
I will however take a look see if there is any workaround but that's most likely not gonna be possible, but I'll try!!

4) Ok my bad for not adding a research field in the multiplayer scenarios. Will be done as well as adding the tutorial to the top of them all.
The names are based on the files. I am not deserializing and opening every single scenario to read it's description or title, that would freeze your computer for like a minute just to have the list appear.

5) Not only PBEM but real time too. Will be done it's been in my TO DO list for a while

TBH, most of player simply don't play multiplayer and enjoy the game in solo more than in multiplayer
That is the feedback I got over the years, so no, people will keep playing HoS simply because people don't play multiplayer much
I could do a simple poll you would be surprised how many people even opened the multiplayer panel!

And me, I usually don't play online but against bots because this is more fun this way, so, everyone's different :)

But yeah, overall that's really the feedback I got!

[Scum]

Thank you sir for the kind reply.

I would love to have someone show me how to do private chat during multiplayer games. I just tried again, my chat post went to the global chat, which I was able to see after I exited the private game. And in several games, I've yet to receive a chat..

For #3, other games have allowed the hosting player to choose the side that goes first, then when someone joins, the game becomes live and at that point, the the host can play first. Just maybe that could be done with this game?

I do hope you are right about the game being primarily a single player game. My experience with the Panzer General and Strategic Command games was play the campaign once, then multiplayer exclusively for several years. But I may be in the minority. You have created a great game and perhaps the workshop will give it longevity!

[HeadHunter]

For "in game chat", I would highly suggest players look into DISCORD audio chat.
Most gamers I know use it pretty exclusively for all their games. I don't want to knock Steam Chat... but DISCORD is the star of the show.

As for the future of HOS... I have no doubt this awesome platform gaming system is destined for stellar greatness... and primarily because of Valentin's unparalleled openess and hard work in using the gamers to search out flaws and generate improvements where he thinks it is possible to do so.

[A Corsican Frog]

I just fixed the PBEM chat, it was indeed broken, so my bad! :)
Now works fine :)
Sorry about that

#3 I'll look into allowing the host to play hist turn first if he wants to, I think I can do it ;)

I'd love some more players to chime in and give their point of you, it would be very valuable!
I could make a poll though (steam news) and ask directly

[CarbonDevice]

Honestly the only thing I would like to see is having more than two players in a PBEM match. It would be pretty cool to see a sort of "pitboss" mode like in the Civilisation games, with 10+ players playing one turn every day on the Europe map or soon to be World map. Another example would be the "Longturn" mode found in Freeciv (see here[longturn.net]). Obviously, as cool as that is, it will almost certainly require an overhaul in the backend implementation, so I'm not holding my breath for it anytime soon.

[Scum]

chat works now, thanx

[Vin]

I haven't delved into multiplayer yet as I'm still learning the game going through the German campaign, but Scum makes some very good points I agree with especially when it comes to longevity for a game like this. You've made a gem of a game in the way things work with the game play, but games like this really shine most, and have their longevity with classic PBEM play.
- Agree being able to see the opponents moves just as one see the AI moves is critical to gathering intelligence.
- Games like this are much more inline to a player being able to take their time with a turn then to email it rather than realtime multiplayer online.

I'm not a programmer, but if the player can see the AIs turn then why can't he see a human opponents turn in the same way? It would seem this code it there already to some degree.
Perhaps some kind of work around might work? Combat Mission x2 has PBEM built into the game and is HUGE part of it's success, but PBEM was not always built into the game as in CMx1. That game is more PBEM complex in that both players plot moves that play outf or 1 min in real time together. Where as this game is you go then I go, not WEGO. In the days of CMx1 one would go to games folder when the game was closed and just email to opponent the save who would put the file in his folder and play. Then it would repeat.

I guess what I'm getting at is perhaps there is a work around to email a save outside the game like Cmx1 use to do it to make things possible/

At any rate at some point the AI just gets to be stomping toy with not much imagination so human opponents are the only thing to satisfy challenge. I started the German campaign on Normal and made it though 3rd mission with only losing one unit. Will jump it to harder settings, but still waves can get a little boring as it's the same old thing. I bought this and Strategic Command at the same time. I like HOS approach better in many ways, but SC has classic PBEM so it has that edge to it's longevity.

I would Definitely try to incorporate classic PBEM into the title in the future at some point to compete in the market of longevity even if with a work around like CMx1 had it.

[A Corsican Frog]

So, there is classic PBEM here, so I'm gonna ignore that last part of your message

Now onto the issue of replaying turns (again, don't see the point since most of them will be happening in the FOW so you would simply not see them anyway)
I cannot do that

I cannot do it because when you move units you alter the save
I can't have the units move or attack or do whatever they do without altering the base file
Whenever you move a unit or attack or anything you do is saved instantly
I can't go back from one state to another

I don't have any idea on how to do that and once again, not interested in doing so, because this is such a minor feature

Again, PBEM works fine the way it is at the moment and I am happy with it

[Vin]

My apologies, from the original post I got the impression it did't have classic PBEM. Look forward to checking it out as soon as I'm done with the German campaign I'm enjoying playing through.

[quilargo]

i bought the game yesterday and my goal is to play PBEM, after i have learned against KI on different scenarios!

[A Corsican Frog]

Let me know if you have any questions regarding PBEM!

[quilargo]

I am watching tutorials- i will ask, if any questions are open after the training sessions! Thx for offering help