Don't care if its a hot take

[Dibbadong]

This games aim assist is so bad, you can't even queue with anyone playing with KB/M lmao

[Fluinol]

PC has died for infinite, no wonder really when you lose 90% of 1v1 battles after certain level

[Dr. Atrocious]

Even Shroud was getting stomped by casuals. That's when you know it's busted.

[tyr2009]

Taquin is a notable mnk player. Crossplay Onyx 1,530.

Is mnk less casual friendly? yes. Is it impossible? no.

As for the queue system, if you are referring to the ranked change to help tighten up smurfing, it is what it is. You can either enjoy playing with casuals in gold, or leave them in the dust.

[Samnson]

Originally posted by node357:

Shroud doesn't know what he's talking about. Mouse has all the advantages. Notice how people like him always skip the part where mouse allows instant 180 degree turning, quick flicks to counter jumpers, higher aim precision, and quicker response times (<1ms compared to 8ms) thanks to high polling rate on gaming mice.

If someone can't win with all those advantages, they need to work on themselves, rather than campaigning to sabotage everyone's already crippled controls on console.

180 degree turning doesn't mean anything if you have enough game sense to pre-aim where you know players should be appearing.

Flicks don't mean anything in shooters with higher TTK like halo,
Since getting the first shot on someone doesn't actually give you a hard advantage,
Unlike games like CS:GO where a single headshot will take you out of the game.
Flicking is only honed in games where an Instant kill mean the difference between victory and defeat. This is why people practice hundreds out hours in AWPing.

Reaction time also... again, like the precious point.
Doesn't give you any hard advantages. Since, again.
High TTK. Made even worse by the Usual server Jank with Desync.




You know what major advantage that Controller has over the M&K?
The Game does a solid chunk of aiming for them. All they need to do it look in the general direction of the enemy body, and the computer will compensate heavily for them.

And you don't think that's a massive user advantage?
Really?

One player using M&K needs to hone their mouse control, their aim, their reaction time, positioning, and general game knowledge.

And the other using Controller only needs to hone game knowledge, positioning, and the ability to aim vaguely in the direction of an enemy?



Bro you fundamentally do not understand what you are talking about lol.
M&K plays at a handicap literally all the time,
While Controller play with a Computer that does a ton of aim work for them.
In a game that built around the Computer doing most of the aim work.

[Kakashi Okazaki]

Originally posted by node357:

Originally posted by Samnson:

180 degree turning doesn't mean anything if you have enough game sense to pre-aim where you know players should be appearing.

Pre-aiming has nothing to do with what control method you're using. If you can't aim at head level down a choke point, your controls are broken.

Originally posted by Samnson:

Flicks don't mean anything in shooters with higher TTK like halo

Acquiring the target matters, and it's easier to do on a mouse. Tracking is about even between controller with aim assist (at low levels) and manually with a mouse, unless you're bad or your mouse is bad.

Originally posted by Samnson:

You know what major advantage that Controller has over the M&K?
The Game does a solid chunk of aiming for them. All they need to do it look in the general direction of the enemy body, and the computer will compensate heavily for them.

It's called aim assist. It's there to give controller players a fighting chance against mouse players who have all the advantages I already listed, and it barely helps. Ever heard of a dead zone? Even at zero, most controllers still have a dead zone, and it absolutely prevents fine aiming. If you try to avoid that, you get drift instead. If you're losing against a controller player, you need to work on your mechanical skill.

Originally posted by Samnson:

And you don't think that's a massive user advantage?
Really?

A little aim assist to overcome the severe disadvantage trying to aim and track with a little joystick with dead zones and/or drifting, and slow, erratic turning presents? No. I don't think aim assist gives an advantage. You worry too much about what other people are doing.

Originally posted by Samnson:

One player using M&K needs to hone their mouse control, their aim, their reaction time, positioning, and general game knowledge.

And the other using Controller only needs to hone game knowledge, positioning, and the ability to aim vaguely in the direction of an enemy?

The price you pay for using a mouse and keyboard is to actually train enough to be good with them. Controller aim assist raises the skill floor to a certain point, and if you can't reach that point with a mouse and keyboard, your mechanical skill is insufficient and you should probably switch to a controller to reach that skill floor.

Originally posted by Samnson:

Bro you fundamentally do not understand what you are talking about lol.
M&K plays at a handicap literally all the time,
While Controller play with a Computer that does a ton of aim work for them.
In a game that built around the Computer doing most of the aim work.

No, you're just biased. I am very comfortable playing with both input methods, and familiar with all the trappings of both. I prefer KBM for Halo Infinite because it works better. Controller is absolutely horrible in this game, and I can easily spot someone who has no idea about that because they make it sound like aim assist is like some kind of aimbot. You're wrong, sorry. Using a controller is the real handicap in this game. Try actually playing seriously with a controller and watch your rank plummet.

KBM is better than controller here. I'm tired of the endless arguing about it. Spend a week in ranked with a controller and you'll see how gimped it really is compared to KBM.

Is the game still at the highest professional level played with controllers? If the answer is yes then controllers are simply better as the game has been out for nearly a year at this point and if mouse and keyboard was truly the better option people would have switched or the highest level would have changed.

[a cozy bunny]

Originally posted by Dr. Atrocious:

Even Shroud was getting stomped by casuals. That's when you know it's busted.

Except Shrowd isn't good at Halo. Neither is Summit1g. Compared to the old H3 ranks, they're like a level 40-45 at best, which is above average, but miles away from being a top player.

[a cozy bunny]

Originally posted by Samnson:

Originally posted by node357:

Shroud doesn't know what he's talking about. Mouse has all the advantages. Notice how people like him always skip the part where mouse allows instant 180 degree turning, quick flicks to counter jumpers, higher aim precision, and quicker response times (<1ms compared to 8ms) thanks to high polling rate on gaming mice.

If someone can't win with all those advantages, they need to work on themselves, rather than campaigning to sabotage everyone's already crippled controls on console.

You know what major advantage that Controller has over the M&K?
The Game does a solid chunk of aiming for them. All they need to do it look in the general direction of the enemy body, and the computer will compensate heavily for them.

And the other using Controller only needs to hone game knowledge, positioning, and the ability to aim vaguely in the direction of an enemy?



Bro you fundamentally do not understand what you are talking about lol.
M&K plays at a handicap literally all the time,
While Controller play with a Computer that does a ton of aim work for them.
In a game that built around the Computer doing most of the aim work.

Bro, YOU fundamentally do not understand what you're talking about. Back when Infinite was being flighted late last year, 343i released statistics of the accuracy difference of the top 100 players for controller players compared to the top 100 players using MnK. There was only a roughly 5% difference in accuracy, with controller players taking the lead. Also, this was BEFORE the 80% aim assist nerf 343i did to balance things out. How about you listen to all the talking points you MnK players say, such as "If you're missing your shots, it's a YOU problem because there isn't any aim assist." So how about you git gud, because it's not controller players fault that you can't even hit the average players accuracy of roughly 40-50%, despite being on the superior and more precise input device.

[a cozy bunny]

Originally posted by Kakashi Okazaki:

Originally posted by node357:

Pre-aiming has nothing to do with what control method you're using. If you can't aim at head level down a choke point, your controls are broken.


Acquiring the target matters, and it's easier to do on a mouse. Tracking is about even between controller with aim assist (at low levels) and manually with a mouse, unless you're bad or your mouse is bad.


It's called aim assist. It's there to give controller players a fighting chance against mouse players who have all the advantages I already listed, and it barely helps. Ever heard of a dead zone? Even at zero, most controllers still have a dead zone, and it absolutely prevents fine aiming. If you try to avoid that, you get drift instead. If you're losing against a controller player, you need to work on your mechanical skill.


A little aim assist to overcome the severe disadvantage trying to aim and track with a little joystick with dead zones and/or drifting, and slow, erratic turning presents? No. I don't think aim assist gives an advantage. You worry too much about what other people are doing.


The price you pay for using a mouse and keyboard is to actually train enough to be good with them. Controller aim assist raises the skill floor to a certain point, and if you can't reach that point with a mouse and keyboard, your mechanical skill is insufficient and you should probably switch to a controller to reach that skill floor.


No, you're just biased. I am very comfortable playing with both input methods, and familiar with all the trappings of both. I prefer KBM for Halo Infinite because it works better. Controller is absolutely horrible in this game, and I can easily spot someone who has no idea about that because they make it sound like aim assist is like some kind of aimbot. You're wrong, sorry. Using a controller is the real handicap in this game. Try actually playing seriously with a controller and watch your rank plummet.

KBM is better than controller here. I'm tired of the endless arguing about it. Spend a week in ranked with a controller and you'll see how gimped it really is compared to KBM.

Is the game still at the highest professional level played with controllers? If the answer is yes then controllers are simply better as the game has been out for nearly a year at this point and if mouse and keyboard was truly the better option people would have switched or the highest level would have changed.

That's a fallacy, as the vast majority of top players for Halo have been using a controller for 1-2 decades. Why should we have to basically relearn the game on a 2nd input device? and not doing so doesn't mean controllers are better, they're just what feels natural to us, since that's what we've been using since the beginning.

[Kitt 🌟 Stargazer]

Haven’t really noticed It honestly. Even with me running KBM. I’m sure it exists though so controllers wouldn’t get squashed into the ground on a console shooter.

[Cylixx]

Originally posted by node357:

some ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥

You literally have no idea wtf you are talking about.

Bullet mag is cranked for controller. All weapons have a longer effective range and higher dps at long range - all assisted. There is a huge difference. The advantages of mnk are purely situation and have to with target acquisition, not bullet-mag provided dps potential, like in the case on controllers.

So stfu legend.

[Kakashi Okazaki]

Originally posted by a cozy bunny:

Originally posted by Kakashi Okazaki:

Is the game still at the highest professional level played with controllers? If the answer is yes then controllers are simply better as the game has been out for nearly a year at this point and if mouse and keyboard was truly the better option people would have switched or the highest level would have changed.

That's a fallacy, as the vast majority of top players for Halo have been using a controller for 1-2 decades. Why should we have to basically relearn the game on a 2nd input device? and not doing so doesn't mean controllers are better, they're just what feels natural to us, since that's what we've been using since the beginning.

If a mouse and keyboard was truly the better option then people would have switched OR THE HIGHEST LEVEL WOULD HAVE CHANGED PERIOD. The game has been out for nearly a year mate that's just the facts, people who play a game professionally will look for whatever advantage they can get or they get pushed out by those who will. Lets not forget that halo was on the PC as well not every single player was console exclusive/bound. Hell the fan halo game was also pretty big in the community and playable with mouse and keyboard. Lets not pretend that positioning and map knowledge are that complicated when it comes to halo that within a years time no one on the pc could figure it out.

Also from 8 months ago the mean top 100 KBM accuracy was about 48-49% whereas the top 100 mean for controllers was 56-57% and the 50th percentile for controller was 46% and for KBM it was 41% maybe that's what you meant but either way that's actually a huge difference as that means THE TOP KBM players are only a a few percentage points above the 50th percentile for controllers.

[Pseudo]

Originally posted by node357:

Originally posted by Samnson:

180 degree turning doesn't mean anything if you have enough game sense to pre-aim where you know players should be appearing.

Pre-aiming has nothing to do with what control method you're using. If you can't aim at head level down a choke point, your controls are broken.

Originally posted by Samnson:

Flicks don't mean anything in shooters with higher TTK like halo

Acquiring the target matters, and it's easier to do on a mouse. Tracking is about even between controller with aim assist (at low levels) and manually with a mouse, unless you're bad or your mouse is bad.

Originally posted by Samnson:

You know what major advantage that Controller has over the M&K?
The Game does a solid chunk of aiming for them. All they need to do it look in the general direction of the enemy body, and the computer will compensate heavily for them.

It's called aim assist. It's there to give controller players a fighting chance against mouse players who have all the advantages I already listed, and it barely helps. Ever heard of a dead zone? Even at zero, most controllers still have a dead zone, and it absolutely prevents fine aiming. If you try to avoid that, you get drift instead. If you're losing against a controller player, you need to work on your mechanical skill.

Originally posted by Samnson:

And you don't think that's a massive user advantage?
Really?

A little aim assist to overcome the severe disadvantage trying to aim and track with a little joystick with dead zones and/or drifting, and slow, erratic turning presents? No. I don't think aim assist gives an advantage. You worry too much about what other people are doing.

Originally posted by Samnson:

One player using M&K needs to hone their mouse control, their aim, their reaction time, positioning, and general game knowledge.

And the other using Controller only needs to hone game knowledge, positioning, and the ability to aim vaguely in the direction of an enemy?

The price you pay for using a mouse and keyboard is to actually train enough to be good with them. Controller aim assist raises the skill floor to a certain point, and if you can't reach that point with a mouse and keyboard, your mechanical skill is insufficient and you should probably switch to a controller to reach that skill floor.

Originally posted by Samnson:

Bro you fundamentally do not understand what you are talking about lol.
M&K plays at a handicap literally all the time,
While Controller play with a Computer that does a ton of aim work for them.
In a game that built around the Computer doing most of the aim work.

No, you're just biased. I am very comfortable playing with both input methods, and familiar with all the trappings of both. I prefer KBM for Halo Infinite because it works better. Controller is absolutely horrible in this game, and I can easily spot someone who has no idea about that because they make it sound like aim assist is like some kind of aimbot. You're wrong, sorry. Using a controller is the real handicap in this game. Try actually playing seriously with a controller and watch your rank plummet.

KBM is better than controller here. I'm tired of the endless arguing about it. Spend a week in ranked with a controller and you'll see how gimped it really is compared to KBM.

Can't believe I still have to share these vids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UoOQ7o5Yiw&t=3s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0A3a-YsvSA

[Pseudo]

Originally posted by a cozy bunny:

Originally posted by Kakashi Okazaki:

Is the game still at the highest professional level played with controllers? If the answer is yes then controllers are simply better as the game has been out for nearly a year at this point and if mouse and keyboard was truly the better option people would have switched or the highest level would have changed.

That's a fallacy, as the vast majority of top players for Halo have been using a controller for 1-2 decades. Why should we have to basically relearn the game on a 2nd input device? and not doing so doesn't mean controllers are better, they're just what feels natural to us, since that's what we've been using since the beginning.

Because when you're at that high of a level, you take any advantage you can get, even if it means having to relearn, and if M+K really was better, you would see a transition in droves by those that really want to win, which is the vast majority of the comp scene I'm pretty sure. Even the pros say that controller is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjndtATgybM

[Shufflezzz]

Unless you play only swat mnk is straight trash. Part of the reason I stopped playing, that and the busted netcode

[Pseudo]

Originally posted by node357:

Originally posted by Trilby:

Because when you're at that high of a level, you take any advantage you can get, even if it means having to relearn, and if M+K really was better, you would see a transition in droves by those that really want to win, which is the vast majority of the comp scene I'm pretty sure. Even the pros say that controller is better https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjndtATgybM

Of course, you can tell Snip3down knows what he's talking about because he plays APEX with a controller as well. A guy who strictly uses controllers even when they put him at a severe disadvantage in a game like Apex is clearly an authority on which input method is better.

Are you suggesting you're words holds more weight than his