Can't shoot in crouch position?

[yup yup]

Is it a bug or I'm doing something wrong?

[axios2006]

Hi,

not a bug. Anyway several users have requested to have the possibility to shoot when crouched.

For now, crouching is only for sneak under the windows or the bushes.

[Maldo Straken [FR]]

yeah could be great to shoot when you got a buddy behind you

[Neopolitan]

Doing high/lows is a very common tactic that I'm disappointed to not see in the game. I hope it is fixed soon

[Vulpe Nebuna]

While we agree and will probably improve crouching, doing high/low is automated as troopers will automatically shoot over their buddies if spaced close enough.

[HUH]

High/Low works fine. I use it if the situation requires it. Just position your Operators correctly.

[Pup]

Originally posted by Vulpe Nebuna:

While we agree and will probably improve crouching, doing high/low is automated as troopers will automatically shoot over their buddies if spaced close enough.

well how close to they have to be spaced? because I have gone through almost every map in the game at this point trying to get them to do high/low firing and either the back guy can't fire because his buddy is in the way, or the front guy can't fire because I had to make him crouch so the guy behind him could actually shoot. right now trying to do high/low firing is a major hit or miss (mainly miss it seems) and trying to pull it off going into a room is just suicide because they get gunned down quickly because it's just one guy trying to clear the doorway while his buddy stand behind him not doing anything to help cause he can't shoot high

[Mouse]

Originally posted by Pupito:

well how close to they have to be spaced? because I have gone through almost every map in the game at this point trying to get them to do high/low firing and either the back guy can't fire because his buddy is in the way, or the front guy can't fire because I had to make him crouch so the guy behind him could actually shoot. right now trying to do high/low firing is a major hit or miss (mainly miss it seems) and trying to pull it off going into a room is just suicide because they get gunned down quickly because it's just one guy trying to clear the doorway while his buddy stand behind him not doing anything to help cause he can't shoot high

Close--basically touching. Do a simple experiment. Start with two troops in a safe area and positioned a little farther apart than muzzle distance. Aim one at the other, then inch the character forward until he averts his muzzle (cannot fire), then closer still until he's level muzzle again (CAN fire). When both characters are level muzzle, that's the maximum distance (if you inched the character gradually enough) they can be to simulate high-low and other contact-based techniques for safely firing around teammates.

[IvantheFormidable]

Originally posted by Pupito:

well how close to they have to be spaced? because I have gone through almost every map in the game at this point trying to get them to do high/low firing and either the back guy can't fire because his buddy is in the way, or the front guy can't fire because I had to make him crouch so the guy behind him could actually shoot. right now trying to do high/low firing is a major hit or miss (mainly miss it seems) and trying to pull it off going into a room is just suicide because they get gunned down quickly because it's just one guy trying to clear the doorway while his buddy stand behind him not doing anything to help cause he can't shoot high

Generally speaking you have to be close enough that, when the operator behind raises his rifle, the muzzle clears the shoulder of the operator in front.

[Pup]

Originally posted by Mouse:

Close--basically touching. Do a simple experiment. Start with two troops in a safe area and positioned a little farther apart than muzzle distance. Aim one at the other, then inch the character forward until he averts his muzzle (cannot fire), then closer still until he's level muzzle again (CAN fire). When both characters are level muzzle, that's the maximum distance (if you inched the character gradually enough) they can be to simulate high-low and other contact-based techniques for safely firing around teammates.

Thanks, think I got it. Is certainly a lot weirder than simply making them shoot while crouched. My second guy has his gun simply going through the chest of the guy in front of him basically, and it's a lot more difficult to actually do in situations where I'd want high/low firing. Can't really move two guys through a tight doorway to clear a corner with high/low when one of them has to be basically Yoda riding in his buddies backpack to actually shoot. Just having the guy in front crouch so the guy behind him can shoot over him as well is way easier to actually pull off and would let us get more guns up in the fight in tighter spaces like that without having to worry about losing literally the entire time to one guy with a grenade. I also just really don't see the point in making it so they can't fire while crouched. It's something people actually do when firing, firing from a crouched position is a pretty basic thing. Not to mention it requires you to basically jam your guys into each other, which causes a lot of bumping around and issues with getting through the doorway. Either crouch firing needs to be a thing, or collision between our troops needs to be reduced. Or both.

[Mute]

I agree with Pupito's statement, but again I'm sure the Dev Team is well aware of the issue and already working on it. This has been a very common request and they admitted that using "crouching" to refer to what they conceived as a "stealth movement stance" was a poor idea.
Basically what crouching is in the game right now is just a way to move under window undetected or see the inside of a room from a window without triggering that room. It's extremely useful, but it's not what the players want and the dev team knows it.

Although we can indeed manage to do some "pretty much HighLow", it's a pain to setup, look weird af and doesn't work that well.

HighLow is one of the absolute essentials of CQB and we need a way to make this happen properly.

Although it'll probably be a pain to have proper HighLow, we can still have decent LowHigh by allowing trooper to shoot while crouching.
Though purists may take issue because LowHigh has a pretty bad reputation (with good reason, mind you. I taught my team to never use it after witnessing the video of a cop from another country shoot his buddy dead during a pretty poor LowHigh attempt),
in terms of gameplay it will be a huge step forward.

[IvantheFormidable]

It may be a little weird, but it's replicating a real world thing about moving in such close proximity that the rear man's barrel clears the shoulder of the first man. A common maneuver for several types of room clearing. I do agree that it would be nice to see some changes on how operators function, especially when flowing through a doorway.

I remember maybe a year or two ago the devs were exploring some sort of feature where you could "bind" operators together in a stack, which would allow the game to auto-regulate the distance between the two and let the rear one fire 'over' the first one. I think some system like that would be a great addition, especially

High/low firing would be nice to see for a stationary position, but I'm not sold on the whole "moving while crouched and firing" thing.

[Pup]

Originally posted by IvantheFormidable:

It may be a little weird, but it's replicating a real world thing about moving in such close proximity that the rear man's barrel clears the shoulder of the first man. A common maneuver for several types of room clearing. I do agree that it would be nice to see some changes on how operators function, especially when flowing through a doorway.

I remember maybe a year or two ago the devs were exploring some sort of feature where you could "bind" operators together in a stack, which would allow the game to auto-regulate the distance between the two and let the rear one fire 'over' the first one. I think some system like that would be a great addition, especially

High/low firing would be nice to see for a stationary position, but I'm not sold on the whole "moving while crouched and firing" thing.

I don't think they should be able to fire while crouched and moving personally, only if they are stationary while crouched, but I think the idea of binding them together in a stack so the game can auto-regulate the distance and automate high/low fire like that sounds like a great idea, maybe even better than the firing while crouching. That combined with a bit of a lowering in the operator collision with each other would be great, because currently when trying to get my stack through a door if the first guy doesn't clear the doorway fast enough then they all just end up bumping into each other and getting stuck in the door for a moment. Maybe reduce collision so they can still bump into each other but can hopefully still flow past each other into a room more smoothly as well.

[Tang60]

they should be able to fire while crouched, I know this game is as much about fun as realism but really :) ? He cant fire while couched ? they need to be able to fire while couched IMO.

[Terroriza]

They should definitely fire when crouched. I often will send someone behind cover smaller cover and want them to crouch while guarding a zone.

[Terroriza]

Originally posted by CPT Gadget:

I agree with Pupito's statement, but again I'm sure the Dev Team is well aware of the issue and already working on it. This has been a very common request and they admitted that using "crouching" to refer to what they conceived as a "stealth movement stance" was a poor idea.
Basically what crouching is in the game right now is just a way to move under window undetected or see the inside of a room from a window without triggering that room. It's extremely useful, but it's not what the players want and the dev team knows it.

Although we can indeed manage to do some "pretty much HighLow", it's a pain to setup, look weird af and doesn't work that well.

HighLow is one of the absolute essentials of CQB and we need a way to make this happen properly.

Although it'll probably be a pain to have proper HighLow, we can still have decent LowHigh by allowing trooper to shoot while crouching.
Though purists may take issue because LowHigh has a pretty bad reputation (with good reason, mind you. I taught my team to never use it after witnessing the video of a cop from another country shoot his buddy dead during a pretty poor LowHigh attempt),
in terms of gameplay it will be a huge step forward.

They weren't wearing armor or helmets during a raid like this or was it just a really unlucky shot? I wonder if this was a group who doesn't practice enough like national guard / reserve units or a SWAT team in a very low crime area? It's hard for me to imagine this happening with something like an active duty squad of Rangers.