Dragon Age 2 is underrated as f***

[Pink Ranger]

I played all three Dragon Age games for the first time, back to back, during quarantine, but I almost skipped the second one because all I heard online was "OMG IT'S SO BAD OMG TRASH GAME!!!".

Thank God I didn't listen to all the whining, because I absolutely loved it. Here I will admit that being aware up front about the repetitive dungeons and the fact that it's set in just one city probably helped manage my expectations, but once I suspended my disbelief about the locations looking the same, it was a really satisfying game.

The really punchy combat was like a shot in the arm after the zero-feedback sluggishness of DA:O, especially when playing with the cross-class combos, but that's not even what I love about it the most.
The key factor for me was that the entire thing was almost non-stop character or plot driven.
I realised this while playing Inquisition, which was a massive game where hours and hours went by with almost zero dialogue, save for the occasional line of party banter. I had 3 entirely untouched zones before the final mission, because the game didn't even bother to provide a reason/requirement for me to go there, other than to farm xp or motherf*cking elfroot.

DA2, maybe even BECAUSE of its narrow scope, had close to zero downtime. I never went anywhere without a clear purpose, and it was almost always driven by some narrative, which either progressed the main plot or built the world. The companions weren't just set dressing as in DA:O and and DA:I (with a few exceptions), their presence and character arcs were woven throughout the entire game. Hardly any of them were cookie cutter, a lot of them had some sordid backstories which were great to uncover, with a lot of morally murky decisions to make in the process.
Another thing about the story is that while initially meandering, there is a genuine sense of escalating slowburn tension that the others just didn't have. DA:O and DA:I plopped down an end goal in front of you to kill some Big Bad, and you slowly chipped away at the game until you finally did. In DA2, you just felt things reach breaking point. I remember how genuinely afraid I was to enter the Arishok's camp in the end of Act 2. Great stuff.

And even the game's biggest weakness, i.e. the identical looking dungeons didn't ruin it too much, because all those excursions were brief, hit and run affairs. DA:O had really drawn out, endless dungeon crawls that I thought would never end - I thought I'll never get out of Orzammar.

Anyway, I hope that the initial uproar of the disappointment that DA2 caused on release has died down enough for people to get over themselves and enjoy the good stuff about the game, because there is a lot to love.

[Bluebeak]

I felt like the combat in Dragon Age 2 was much more repetitive as in "Press attack, spam ability, wait til everything dies". It was worse on console where there was "mash A" syndrome. There was little strategy because enemies would just spawn in from thin air. The hardest fights were the ones where they would spawn seemingly 100 enemies and the only solution was to just backtrack earlier in the level so they'd stop flanking you constantly.

There are good aspects to DA2 but its unfinished quality and very repetitive gameplay made it much less appealing to replay in comparison to DAO. It's not nearly as bad as DAI though.

[uanime5]

The plot is little more than the developers railroading the player through the story.

In Act 1 you need 50 sovereigns but once you have it you can't go to the mine until you complete all the side quests the developer wants you to do, such as Night Terrors. Even if you fail to get this money a random dwarf will give you 50 sovereigns so the plot can continue. Then you fight a random monster than no one mentioned because this act needs a boss.

In Act 2 the Arishok isn't able to find Isabella in a bar in Kirkwall after 3 years of searching and once he dies/leaves the plot gets much worse as the Chantry-Qun conflict was driving much of the plot by this point.

In Act 3 Orseno gives you a quest and after you visit him to get the reward for completing this quest he sends you a message asking you to come to his office even though he could have told you what he wanted while you were in his office. Next Orseno tries to prove that all mages don't use blood magic by using blood magic, while Meredith tried to kill you with a sword made from an Idol regardless of what you did because this act needs another boss.

If the plot was character/plot driven then your choices would have had an impact on the plot. However you just fight everyone because you're never given the option to side with anyone in a meaningful way.

[Bluebeak]

Oprindeligt skrevet af uanime5:

The plot is little more than the developers railroading the player through the story.

In Act 1 you need 50 sovereigns but once you have it you can't go to the mine until you complete all the side quests the developer wants you to do, such as Night Terrors. Even if you fail to get this money a random dwarf will give you 50 sovereigns so the plot can continue. Then you fight a random monster than no one mentioned because this act needs a boss.

In Act 2 the Arishok isn't able to find Isabella in a bar in Kirkwall after 3 years of searching and once he dies/leaves the plot gets much worse as the Chantry-Qun conflict was driving much of the plot by this point.

In Act 3 Orseno gives you a quest and after you visit him to get the reward for completing this quest he sends you a message asking you to come to his office even though he could have told you what he wanted while you were in his office. Next Orseno tries to prove that all mages don't use blood magic by using blood magic, while Meredith tried to kill you with a sword made from an Idol regardless of what you did because this act needs another boss.

If the plot was character/plot driven then your choices would have had an impact on the plot. However you just fight everyone because you're never given the option to side with anyone in a meaningful way.

I agree with this. It makes sense in context since the game was essentially rushed out in under a year by EA

[ShadowCloudX]

I mean wasn't this game originally supposed to be a setup to DA:I? Like the Champion becoming the Inquisitor? I know they pulled back on that cause this game didn't do too well but if they even had another 6 months to a year this game would of been alot better.
Having said that I still enjoy this game even with it's faults.

[Pink Ranger]

Those are all valid points, but I guess I didn't mind being railroaded because the story itself was interesting enough. Also, I can't bring myself to get upset at the faults, knowing that Bioware barely had time to throw the game together, so I guess I'm happy that despite being given an impossible task, they still made the game as enjoyable as it was.

[Sir Fed Dump]

DA2 had a great story. Osorio was the biggest rnoron on Earth, but it fit the story. I would love to see it remastered with the Frostbite 3 engine from Inquisition.

[Bluebeak]

The frostbite engine was the reason dai was so repetitive and why ME:A was so bad. The developers struggled to work with it

[Pink Ranger]

Oprindeligt skrevet af BlueBeak:

The frostbite engine was the reason dai was so repetitive and why ME:A was so bad. The developers struggled to work with it

Although I'm sure there are difficulties using Frostbite, I don't see why there would be any connection at all between an engine and repetition/lack of context for side quests? The sidequests had no story to them, they were just aimless fetch quests. I'm sure if The Witcher 3 used Frostbite, the writing would still be unaffected? The story missions in DA:I were all really good, they just didn't work on fleshing out the side stuff, of which there was a lot, hence the repetition.

But yeah, ME:A lifted Inquisition's structure wholesale, except there the connective tissue, i.e. main plot, companions etc, were much worse.

[Bluebeak]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Pink Ranger:

Oprindeligt skrevet af BlueBeak:

The frostbite engine was the reason dai was so repetitive and why ME:A was so bad. The developers struggled to work with it

Although I'm sure there are difficulties using Frostbite, I don't see why there would be any connection at all between an engine and repetition/lack of context for side quests?

The bulk of the content that was finished for DAI was made in its last year because of how much they struggled with the Frostbite engine. EA also would move developers off of the project to work on FIFA without alerting the rest of the team. This also occurred with ME:A and Anthem. The developers were also under the impression the game would be fine regardless because Bioware always put out a quality product regardless of how much work was actually put in. It was dubbed "Bioware magic".

This also influenced Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, where the developers adamantly refused to use Frostbite and only accepted working on it if they were allowed to use UE4.

I'm sure if The Witcher 3 used Frostbite, the writing would still be unaffected?

It's not writing it's time/manpower. Time/manpower/budget is what matters. A storyless mmo style sidequest is faster to implement than an in depth sidequest that has cutscenes and choices.

[Pink Ranger]

Oprindeligt skrevet af BlueBeak:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Pink Ranger:

The bulk of the content that was finished for DAI was made in its last year because of how much they struggled with the Frostbite engine.

This also influenced Star Wars Jedi Fallen Order, where the developers adamantly refused to use Frostbite and only accepted working on it if they were allowed to use UE4.
It's not writing it's time/manpower. Time/manpower/budget is what matters. A storyless mmo style sidequest is faster to implement than an in depth sidequest that has cutscenes and choices.

Ah, I see what you mean - fair enough! I knew about how they struggled with Anthem, I didn't know this went all the way back to Inquisition.
Honestly though, I wish the manpower they DID have spent their time writing instead of adding yet another essentially pointless area to the game, it would have been a much more satisfying package. Sometimes less is more

[keihtg]

I love how DA2 and Mass Effect Andromeda have "Mostly Positive" ratings, lol. Great games, happy that people can appreciate them for everything they do right.

[Bluebeak]

Oprindeligt skrevet af keihtg:

I love how DA2 and Mass Effect Andromeda have "Mostly Positive" ratings, lol. Great games, happy that people can appreciate them for everything they do right.

The only people who buy rereleases tend to already be superfans

[EvathCebor]

Or people waiting for a steam release and simply disliking Origin...as I am. We're legion. And I'm enjoying my time here, if I ever write a review, it'll be a positive one for sure.

[Včelí medvídek]

Well I spent maybe 500 hours in DA:Origin over years - totaly love it similar as Baldur gate. Finished it for all races origins, combination classes and prestige classes, choices and party composition, romances... last time I played it previous year and that game lost nothing over the decade I know it...

DA2 is jsut meh and I am seriuously thinking about refund - looking away from EA Origin (aka another not wanted software paltform] so far I reached the city and about hour in game, but the experience is terrible for me. Combat is like some action anime rpg with terrible camera angle and locked focus and characters lacks both complexity and something I can identify with them..

I looked forward this title but I am so much dissapointed of it so far... is story really so good to jsutify terrible gameplay experience it offer?

[Bluebeak]

Oprindeligt skrevet af Včelí medvídek:

DA2 is jsut meh and I am seriuously thinking about refund - looking away from EA Origin (aka another not wanted software paltform] so far I reached the city and about hour in game, but the experience is terrible for me. Combat is like some action anime rpg with terrible camera angle and locked focus and characters lacks both complexity and something I can identify with them..

I looked forward this title but I am so much dissapointed of it so far... is story really so good to jsutify terrible gameplay experience it offer?

The characters do get better overtime but the combat doesn't.