Jagged Alliance 2: Gold Pack

Jagged Alliance 2: Gold Pack

"Don't play the fan made patch" (patch 1.13)
I haven't even progressed far into this game, so when I get an Android tablet I'll have good cause to re-engage it - but I'm unsure if the 1.13 patch will be compatible. Having fielded that question to a someone, I was told this:

Don't play the fan made patch
It's unstable and unbalanced and buggy
The vanilla game was perfectly timed
The fan base patch is garbage by comparison
Lost track of what made the game so repayable and fun
It's not a Bethesda game. The debs knew what they were doing. There is no need for mods

I'm interested to hear what others' opinions of those statements are.
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Doug 13. Mai 2014 um 10:00 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
I prefer the 1.12. Even now I don't have 1.13 installed. Though, maybe I'll try it if I can keep the 1.12 as well incase I change my mind (I can always delete it though).

The install method recommended on these forums (a post by Saugus49 a while back) would install 1.13 alongside of the vanilla version so you'd always have both.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Even though lot of the features are disabled by default, and no one's forcing you to use them, I don't really like some of the stuff added in 1.13. There's ridiculous amount of different guns (Which usually causes me to use "Normal" setting for weapons instead of "Tons of Guns". In vanilla its the other way around).

I'm with you on this one.. too many ammo types to keep track of, imo.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
You have a bar that shows your chance to hit. Not sure can you remove it, but I don't like it. In 1.12 You wasn't sure can you hit the enemy, you just had to try your luck. Now you can just check the bar and if the chance to hit is low, don't even bother.

There are two options for this.. idr the difference between them exactly, but.. try the other. :)

Thanks for pointing out more of the options.. It's hard to remember them all.
Aappo 13. Mai 2014 um 23:24 
I decided to give the mod another try. I should have checked the instructions for having both versions, because I was doing really good in 1.12 hehe. I wonder is my save is still available. If it is, I'll try to copy it and have both versions installed. If it's gone.. ouch!

Anyway, I wonder how old version of 1.13 I've been playing. Last time I played 1.13 (that was maybe a year or two ago), there were less features in the settings. Now, even the new game screen has lot more options. I first had attachments/inventory set to new/new but it was really confusing, so I switched it back to old.

The new targeting system was something I hadn't seen before as well, so I used the old one on that as well.

skill progress, new skills, better character customization (size, skin color, clothing etc.) and other things were new as well.

Also the max AP seems to have been pumped to 100 instead of default 25. It's really confusing right now. Can I switch it back somehow?

Edit:

Why does some of my weapons show the amount of ammo left in the weapon as ?? instead of number? Even if I eject the clip and reload the weapon, it still shows ??.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Aappo; 14. Mai 2014 um 2:02
Doug 14. Mai 2014 um 5:51 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Edit:

Why does some of my weapons show the amount of ammo left in the weapon as ?? instead of number? Even if I eject the clip and reload the weapon, it still shows ??.

I'll start with the easy one.. This happens based on your IMP's stats.. It's been a while since I played so idr for sure which stat affects it. It's designed to reflect the real-world concept that only very experienced shooters are able to keep track of how many shots they've fired in a stressful situation like combat. A low stat gives ???, a medium stat gives something like [Low|Medium|High], and a high stat shows the exact amount of ammo remaining in the clip.

It's a little extra realism that I think takes the game further from 'game' to 'simulation'.
Doug 14. Mai 2014 um 5:54 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
I decided to give the mod another try. I should have checked the instructions for having both versions, because I was doing really good in 1.12 hehe. I wonder is my save is still available. If it is, I'll try to copy it and have both versions installed. If it's gone.. ouch!

The advice on install of the mod was to copy your entire JA2:Gold folder system to something like C:JA2 and install the mod there. The reason for the instruction wasn't to allow both to coexist, but to prevent problems some players had with permissions in the Steam Folder not allowing them to install and/or play the mod. The fact that it means you have both is a happy coincidence.
Doug 14. Mai 2014 um 5:56 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Anyway, I wonder how old version of 1.13 I've been playing. Last time I played 1.13 (that was maybe a year or two ago), there were less features in the settings. Now, even the new game screen has lot more options.

The most recent release last I saw was Release 4870. There was an install and a patch at the time (a few months ago). I heard a new release was coming out, but I haven't seen it yet.

If your game mod is Release 4870 or higher, you probably have the current one.
Doug 14. Mai 2014 um 6:01 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Also the max AP seems to have been pumped to 100 instead of default 25. It's really confusing right now. Can I switch it back somehow?

You can switch back to the 25AP standard system. idr if that's an in-game setting or an .ini file change.

Just for info: the 100AP system starts as simply the 25AP system with everythng's AP cost (movement, shooting, etc, etc) multiplied by 4. With that lower granularity, there is the flexibility to differentiate weapons and actions more by modifiying from the new base AP cost by 1 to 3 in either direction. For example, 2 guns which used to both take 5AP to aim might now be 19 vs 21.. which would still round to 5 in the 25AP system, but allows them to be different in the 100AP system.

The change doesn't affect actual gameplay much, since the total amount you can do in a round is unchanged. Call it a 'flavor' or realism mod.
Aappo 14. Mai 2014 um 6:48 
Yeah, I checked the install instructions later, and luckily I had the 1.12 saves still in the folder, so I copied them, (and 1.13) deleted the game data, and reinstalled the game (I had it previously installed JA2 steam folder), and copied it to a different folder and installed it here, so now I can have both 1.12 and 1.13.

This has nothing to do with 1.13, but I was just wondering that how come my IMP character can't train one of the mercs.

Spider has 57 AGI right now, and I wanted to raise it slightly by training, and was thinking of doing that with my IMP guy who has 80 AGI and expert teaching. However, it's blinking in red, like I'm not able train her. Yes, I checked multiple times that I'm actually training AGI and Spider's a Student for AGI.

For some reason, Ira can train her, even though her AGI is slightly lower (72). She has expert teaching too.

I just don't get it.:/
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Aappo; 14. Mai 2014 um 6:55
Doug 15. Mai 2014 um 10:25 
You're sure you're selecting 'Teacher' and not 'Train' for your IMP? There's 2 ways to improve a stat.. Train is self-learning.. stops working around 80. The other is to have someone set up as Teacher and someone(s) as Student.

What you're describing is what would happen in the self-train mode.. IMP at 80 can't, Ira at 72 can. My best guess, anyway. In essence, if I'm right, you have your IMP and/or IRA trying to raise their OWN AGI, while the student lacks a teacher.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Doug; 15. Mai 2014 um 10:28
Aappo 15. Mai 2014 um 23:58 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Doug:
You're sure you're selecting 'Teacher' and not 'Train' for your IMP? There's 2 ways to improve a stat.. Train is self-learning.. stops working around 80. The other is to have someone set up as Teacher and someone(s) as Student.

What you're describing is what would happen in the self-train mode.. IMP at 80 can't, Ira at 72 can. My best guess, anyway. In essence, if I'm right, you have your IMP and/or IRA trying to raise their OWN AGI, while the student lacks a teacher.

Actually self-training is called "Practice" while the person teaching someone is called "Trainer". :p

Yes, I had both Ira and my IMP as "Trainer" while Spider was their "Student". And yes, all 3 mercs were in the same sector.

Ira is able to teach Spider to be more agile, but whenever my IMP tries that, the word "Trainer" keeps blinking in red (Same way Militia keeps blinking red if all nearby sectors are full of militia and you can't train them any further).

The weird thing is that my IMP's AGI is *higher* than Ira' (so you'd expect him to be BETTER Trainer than Ira), but he still can't teach Spider.

I can teach other people with other skills just fine, but not Spider with AGI. Oh well, I have other characters with high AGI who can do that. It would have been better with my IMP though, since he has Teaching (expert) ability.


Also, does having more Trainers teaching the same Student speed up skill increase? For example, Spider and Thor teaching medical to.. Grizzly for example. Is it more effective with two people teaching him at the same time?

If it is, does it affect the speed much, or is it just a small increase?
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Aappo; 16. Mai 2014 um 0:00
Doug 16. Mai 2014 um 7:36 
Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Actually self-training is called "Practice" while the person teaching someone is called "Trainer". :p

This is what happens when you work from memory and haven't played in a while. Glad you understood what I was getting at even if my memory of the terms was wrong

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Yes, I had both Ira and my IMP as "Trainer" while Spider was their "Student". And yes, all 3 mercs were in the same sector.

Ira is able to teach Spider to be more agile, but whenever my IMP tries that, the word "Trainer" keeps blinking in red (Same way Militia keeps blinking red if all nearby sectors are full of militia and you can't train them any further).

The weird thing is that my IMP's AGI is *higher* than Ira' (so you'd expect him to be BETTER Trainer than Ira), but he still can't teach Spider.

I can teach other people with other skills just fine, but not Spider with AGI. Oh well, I have other characters with high AGI who can do that. It would have been better with my IMP though, since he has Teaching (expert) ability.

Sounds like you are doing it correctly. I don't recall any other dependencies.. High Leadership and a stat that you want to train that's higher than the student's and a student whose stat isn't above 80 or 85 (idr which) are all the dependencies I recall.. And with Expert Teaching, there's a minimum Ldr iirc.

Ursprünglich geschrieben von Alluboy:
Also, does having more Trainers teaching the same Student speed up skill increase? For example, Spider and Thor teaching medical to.. Grizzly for example. Is it more effective with two people teaching him at the same time?

If it is, does it affect the speed much, or is it just a small increase?

Frankly, in my testing, Training didn't seem to be enough faster than Practice to make it worthwhile even 1:1.. if you have 2 or 3 Students with 1 Trainer it might be worth having the Trainer not doing something else. But all of this is my recollection of less-than-exhaustive testing. Try saving your game and running Practice, 1:1 Training and 2:1 Training for the same period of time and see how the results differ. Give it a fairly lengthy time.. at least a day or two.. cause idr if there's a random factor in skill improvement.

Aappo 17. Mai 2014 um 4:12 
Oh, I didn't know that Leadership affects skill training. I know it affects Militia though. That was also higher than Ira's lol. I guess Spider just doesn't want my IMP to teach her. D:

BTW, is there any way to make Enrico not complain about not making any progress? If you spend too many days without taking any towns, he starts sending e-mails, which also reduce loyalty in each captured town.

I like to progress slowly, and have the recently captured town full of milita before I move to the next town, which can take some time, especially if I make everyone regular instead of green militia, and if I don't have really good trainers.

Not to mention if there are any seriously hurt mercs, or lot of damaged equipment, I gotta take of those as well.
Zuletzt bearbeitet von Aappo; 17. Mai 2014 um 4:13
Doug 17. Mai 2014 um 7:58 
Nope... Enrico just wants things to move forward. My approach was as I got more than my initial squad of mercs, I'd split off ppl to train militias and keep a squad generally moving forward as much as possible. Best choices for trainers are the free mercs like Ira who suck at combat. They may not be good trainers to begin with, but they improve over time. Some need to Practice or be Trained to have enough Ldr to even start, of course. Ditto with wounded.. swap'em out when you have enough people. I never had more than 1 squad in combat (aside from defense, of course), but I mostly tried to keep that one moving.

iirc Ldr is helpful any time you're teaching someone else. And Wis is helpful any time you're learning (including by experience). Other than that, when Training someone else, I think the stat you're training has to be higher than theirs by a certain amount (which idr atm). Not sure if more than that minimum difference makes it faster or not.

Doug 17. Mai 2014 um 8:01 
Some time ago, I made this thread: http://steamcommunity.com/app/12370/discussions/0/864975632671489334/

It's about IMP design for a squad in the 1.13 mod. There's some discussion in there of the various stats, their effects, and why I chose the ones I did for my mercs. Could be some of it would be helpful.

There's also a ton of info in the source material for the 1.13 mod, tho it can be hard to ferret out.
Is there any news on the latest version? It was supposed to come out a while ago...
Aappo 18. Mai 2014 um 6:16 
Lmao @ Drassen. I just captured the place and it didn't even take a day and 45 enemy soldiers decide to pay a little visit..
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