Tutorial Game unwinnable

[lacriz]

Is it just me beeing bad or is the Tutorial (and the game as a whole) completely unplayable / unwinable for a single player? Does it scale at all according to the number of players?

[chaosmancer]

It is winnable (I just won it) was there something in particular you struggled with? I will say it was a hard game to win due to some mistakes I made early on (I should have put everyone in a coastal wetland instead of a desert, to make hitting them with accelerated Rot and Tsunami easier)

[MigrantP]

There is no interactive tutorial yet, but we plan to add one. The intro game is just the same setup as our tutorial video we have in the meantime.

It's certainly winnable!

[Hankroyd]

Yup, I'll say I'm ... struggling.
I tried twice to play with Swift Lightning : But invaders had cities and blight everywhere before I could do something significant. He is supposed to be fast on destruction and option are really limited when whatever you do you got 4 blight because ravage and cascading effect. while I was barely able to get 2 fear cards.

I'm afraid to think how it is even possible to win with a 'slow' spirit.

Idea for later : adding a mode "Way too easy" where the invasion deck is played once every two turns, so morons like me has a little chance to win. :D

[MigrantP]

Playing with 1 Spirit is generally considered harder than with 2 or more Spirits. It's a good way to learn how the game works, since there's less going on, though.

[chaosmancer]

Originally posted by Hankroyd:

Yup, I'll say I'm ... struggling.
I tried twice to play with Swift Lightning : But invaders had cities and blight everywhere before I could do something significant. He is supposed to be fast on destruction and option are really limited when whatever you do you got 4 blight because ravage and cascading effect. while I was barely able to get 2 fear cards.

I'm afraid to think how it is even possible to win with a 'slow' spirit.

Idea for later : adding a mode "Way too easy" where the invasion deck is played once every two turns, so morons like me has a little chance to win. :D

What sort of style do you generally prefer?

Blasting everything, moving things tactically, or defend?

I generally find Vital Strength of the Earth to be an excellent solo, because his innate defense allows you to ignore some of the invaders to focus on other threats than the ravage.

[GMonkey]

It's just like the tabletop version, which I've pretty much never won.

[Hankroyd]

@chaosmancer : If I can break and destroy everything, I'm generally happy in a boardgame. :)
But I test the Vital Strenght when I will be playing again.

[MigrantP]

LewdDolphin just won the intro game on stream on his first time playing Spirit Island ever, so it's possible and on tape! =)

Replay on Twitch here, or will be on our YouTube soon:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/594054705
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/594068091

[lacriz]

Okay thx everybody! I accept the challenge and will keep on trying (have the Boardgame on my shelf - yet no time to play (and with corona this could take a while longer). Yet I strongly suggest to add an ultra-easy mode like Hankroyd suggested because you WILL loose ppl on PC / Noobs to the game if even the tutorial stomps them so bad. Guess you aim for more people buying the game than the ones allready having the cardboard version.

[MigrantP]

When there is a tutorial, it will explain the game and won't stomp you. We will make it more clear that the intro game setup is not a tutorial.

[Hankroyd]

I tried the spirit of Earth again and again read strategy tips about it.
It doesn't work.
Defending 3 when invaders deals 7+ damage to a land has no purpose.
Number of blight is way too low, especially since one of them start on the board.

I'm tired of trying, I do nothing wrong that I can see and I lose. Again, and again, with one of the easiest spirit on the easiest setting. I'll say "frustating" ...

More than a tutorial, this gme need a super duper easy mode. Something that can be won 50% of the time by a beginner, not once in a blue moon. :(

[tgb]

I'm also struggling playing my current game with Spirit of the Earth. I agree, initial Blight is too low, but the good(?) news is when the Blight card gets turned over, 5 more are added to the kitty, which extends the game for a bit.

Even though I still don't completely grok all the mechanics, I'm thinking of trying a basic game with a strong offensive spirit and a strong defensive one.

Can anyone suggest a good synergistic pair?

[chaosmancer]

Okay, turns out clicking on this screen to load the game deletes a post in progress. Good to know Steam.

@Hankroyd: The game is hard and I get that. I've lost about half the games I've played (or quit because I made a stupid mistake). My first post talked about some of the counters Vital Strength has for those big damage areas (Guard the Healing land lets you get up to Defend 7 and Perfect Stillness just shuts down a land from all actions)

But, midway through talking about synergies for tgb I had a revelation. One of the hardest parts of the game can be the interplay between Fast and Slow powers. Figuring out how useful something can be slow and how the invaders work. But, there is a scenario that handles that. Try playing the Blitz scenario, and see if it isn't easier to see the board state and make decisions on.

I've also found the scenario "Guard the Island's Heart" a bit easier than normal play, because it removes a few of the starting towns. But, it gives you a location that can't be built on or you lose.




@tgb I find synergy personally a bit odd in this game, because different spirits synergize with different aspects of playstyle. For example, River and Ocean can be a powerful pair. River pushes towns and explorers, either onto the coast or directly into Ocean for devouring, plus river's ability to spread across the board is great for countering Ocean's limited reach.

River and Vital Strength can also be a power couple. Again, River's pushing is great, getting Invaders into defended lands or lined up for Vital Strength to hammer. But also, River has Dahan Generation, and Vital Strength loves Dahan, both for their massive Rituals of Destruction, but also because Dahan counterattack when in a defended land, meaning they can chip away or flat our destroy invaders.

River and Lightning can be great, because River can give Lightning Energy, which they desperately need, and it is based on number of card plays which they will have a lot. Also, Lightning is far more destructive, helping out River who doesn't have as easy of a time directly destroying towns and cities. River then can push the explorers, which Lighting has a hard time dealing with.

Lightning is also great for just about anyone who wants to play big slow powers on the Fast phase (this is what reminded me of Blitz) of which there are a lot of spirits.

Thunderspeaker does a lot with the Dahan, meaning they pair well with River and Vital Strength.

Shadows has a special that allows them to target from Dahan spaces, so I'm sure they work well with Thunderspeaker and River, but I've never understood Shadow's gameplay well enough to give any advice on them.


And I'm sure there are a lot of things I'm not thinking of. Just because I don't play those spirits a lot.

[chuckberts]

I just tried the learn to play map (w/o watching the video) and was able to clear it easily, but I'd have to say that setup is not very friendly to a new player so I'm not surprised that people are having issues. The only reason I was able to get through it so easy was I've played the physical copies for 100+ hours and like to use River.

Using a map piece that locks your only spirit presence in a corner to start is bad enough, but to have it fixed so turn 1 always explore lands on a the terrain type that has a starting town is cruel since you are practically giving them a free city and cities are a pain for for River to get rid of.

Second which obviously is beyond your control, is River's progression deck is not good which hurts players. This tutorial game was the first time I've ever touched Uncannying Melting as it doesn't fit well w/ well really any spirit that I can think of. River gets few power cards since double presence growth is so key and as noted above they already got a second city so you really need a card with 1-2 damage to take out cities. So that leaves you with having to wait until 3rd power card, squandering both Innate lvl 2 and Flash Flood, or sacrificing dahan to take out a city all of which are horrible options. (I got power card #3 on last turn of the game....)

In general I wouldn't recommend using River as a tutorial spirit. While technically low difficulty, it does not function in a manner people would consider normal. You move/stall over and over until Innate lvl 3 to wipe them out. If things get ugly somehow you toss up a defense and let 2-3 Dahan deal w/ it. Between Wash Out, Innate, Flash Flood you shouldn't even see a second city built and the only reason they get the first one is bc of the map setup. That type of gameplay quite frankly isn't normal and most resembles Bringer of Dreams and Nightmares.

Vital Strength of the Earth is a far more straightforward spirit w/ a much better progression deck for learning how to play. With the ability to have the invader card order fixed, you can easily stack the deck in the players favor. They can learn about the various aspects while not struggling to survive since the invaders explore would explore where you had directed players to put their presence

[Sam]

It is just you. Or rather, just all newbies to Spirit Island--not just you. This game is deeply strategic, despite its deceptive simplicity.

The game is winnable, but the biggest thing new players fail to realize is that if you are simply trying to manage ravages, you will become overwhelmed (at least with most of the spirits...the Rock one is better at defending than most).

So, the key strategy for a beginner to learn is how to prevent builds and/or explores. You know where builds will occur: wherever there is an invader (of any type) and the matching card is in the build slot. Explores require an adjacent coast or city/town, so the deepest inland spaces can often be cut off from exploration as well.

Try one of the low complexity spirits first--Lightning is particularly easy to learn with since you can often convert slow powers into fast powers "for free" (actually using elements...but your starting cards have the right element). Fast powers are easier for someone new to the game to use for the above strategies.

Do not play with any adversaries at first.

Finally, no matter which spirit you choose, be sure you generate at least enough fear to go through 3 cards, since that changes the win condition. Ideally, you want to target 6 fear cards (then you only have to destroy all cities). Winning prior to at least 3 fear cards though is very difficult. Do remember that destroying towns/cities generates fear as well, though--that can be very handy as an indirect source of generating fear.