Getting Greater Gigs?

[Uncle Fester]

I'm looking primarily at you for this one Eeyore, but anyone with the knowledge will do (with a subtle nudge to Bohemian Rap City).

With the new FANTASTIC update to the game, I'm wondering now, if getting better gigs through the manager is based solely on the managers' improving skill level, or the bands' actual popularity gains. I suppose it could be a combination of both, I don't know. I seek the knowledge here.

I mean, my new band is approaching the end of it's first year, has an album out, and is having my manager book local gigs in a 300 mile radius of home city, and we are playing a lot of theater venues, netting us about $1k + per show, sometimes nearly $2k per show. Most of the time, we are the first band to play at a theater, do our 6 and leave, occasionally we have to play 9 songs at a theater show. When we are booked to play a club venue, a lot of the time we are THE band at the smaller 300-700 crowd venues. I want to know when we may start seeing Arenas and Stadiums, or being the headliners at the Theaters?

[Bohemian Rap City]

I think that it is a combination of your band's growing popularity and the manager's level. I think manager level acts like business skill for a band member. perhaps a lvl 5 manager and a lvl 25 manager can get me the same gig, but the lvl 25 manager will be able to upgrade the price or number of songs at the gig.

With that said, I have always felt that there is an rng factor involved in manager abilities that makes some lower level managers work harder for you than some higher ones.

[Eeyore Donkey Donk]

The manager now has a skill level that degrades the further away from his home city, which is also a factor. I've had a situation where my manager could get me headliner gigs at a stadium in New York and was hard pressed to get me headliner gigs in theaters in Chicago, and i got 9 song opener gigs in similar sized stadiums in Toronto. You can see this in the Manager screen when you ask him to book gigs in other cities, it will display what his level is in those cities. The drop can be significant.
It's popularity as well, often if you play a 6 song gig in a new city, the next gig will be a 9, a few of those and you might get a 12 at the same size venue. Then you seem to bump up a tier and it continues. You won't see headlining at an arena or stadium until your popularity and your manager's level are fairly high. Distance from your home town, reputation in the city you are visiting, in the case of clubs the reputation you have with the club, and again your manager's level in that city all play into what gigs you can get.

[Eeyore Donkey Donk]

The one thing I've noticed is that managers seem to try to get the best gig/most money they can, and I never adjust my minimum venue number, it's always left at 50, and I don't get given bar & grill gigs once they are scheduling me to play theaters and arenas. Large clubs when doing theaters yes, but never the small clubs.

[Eeyore Donkey Donk]

The more popularity your band has certainly is the major factor to what kind of gigs you can get, modified by the managers level in that city, your reputation, and then any other factors Todd has added to the formula .. then all run through RNG.

[Uncle Fester]

I have long felt like gigs should be rated on who is booking them. Managers of course, do nothing but seek gigs for their clients, totally part of his job. So logically, the higher the manager, the better the gigs could and should be. As a band member, I can see only being able to book just bars and clubs, but if you are good friends with a headlining band who plays theaters and stadiums, you could get a call to open for a band, offers depending on relationship with that band. Just the same, once you elevate your band to headlining, you should be able to make a call to other bands to invite to open for you, which is now shown by being able to choose the opening band for Tour dates.
I'm not coursed on the range of a manager from starting city, I am sure that I will eventually have an epiphany about it, but for now, I am not at all worried about that.
I am completely on board with the direction Todd has taken this game, and love how he implements ideas from players and fans of the game he has created, if he likes the idea. I am excited to see where this game goes in the next 12 months.

[Uncle Fester]

I was also thinking about the 300 mile range, that it could expand with the level of the manager and band as well. Like a level 1 manager can book gigs in small venues up to a range of 100-150 miles, then later on, he could be booking at ranges of 1000+ miles at top level.

[Eeyore Donkey Donk]

That was my thought when I first encountered the 300 mile limit. The way I adapted to it is that by the time the band has outgrown their local 300 mile range I typically have enough money to purchase a 2nd home, so I get one about 500 miles away, so there is overlap of 100 miles between the two. Then I'll have the manager spend a few days booking from one city, and a few days booking for the other, and I'll have that expanded range to work from and never be more than an overnight back to somewhere I can practice. This actually is an improvement on the old book anywhere in a 2100 mile range and finding yourself on endless jaunts with multiple day travels where you don't get a chance to practice or repair gear for weeks on end. It just seems like a limitation because it's not what we were used to, but once I adapted my play style I much prefer it.

[Uncle Fester]

OK, here is what I deduce is maybe the crux of the situation. My current band "Hog Tied" finally got to release it's second album on April 20, 2007. I immediately booked a short tour to promote the CD, the band was just under 7 in popularity (6.8 I believe). By the time this three week tour was over, my band was just above 9 popularity, so, I booked another tour in another part of the country, Pa, NY, NJ, Oh, and Mi. So I think there is a bug in about this range, because I never saw more than a 0.02 increase in popularity at any gig during this stretch, and actually only saw this big jump once. Some of the gigs I didn't even get a popularity raise at all, so how I got this big of a jump in popularity, from 6.8 to about a 9.4 in three weeks, should be attributed to a bug, unless you can persuade me otherwise.

[Uncle Fester]

I have yet to play the New England tour yet, but when I get back to Texas after that, the band I opened for who was at popularity of 9.00 will now be opening for me. The tour I booked upon my return to Texas, is featuring my manager booking me in theaters as the head-lining band, getting paid per ticket instead of flat rates.

[Eeyore Donkey Donk]

Is there a big plus or minus to your draw between locations of venues? For example my current band Start Of The Breakdown is based out of Glasgow Scotland, and they are a +34 gig draw in Scotland, +11 in England, Wales & Northern Ireland, and a -11 in Ireland. My thought is that if I was on a tour that was featuring lots of dates in Ireland than because of less numbers, and the likelyhood those who did show up for gigs would not be as entertained due to attitudes .. that it would effect my popularity.
Distance from your home base and reputation in different cities probably enters into it as well. I would doubt it's a bug, but likely something in how calculations are done.

The other main thought I had, is that did your album sales start to go flat or fall off at about the same time your popularity stopped going up so much? What you see at a gig after a new album release is a combination of the popularity from the gig, plus album sales from what I can tell.

[jfoytek]

So the manager leveling up just seems to make him better at doing what he should have already been doing lol....

So your low level manager starts with no theater gigs and he loves to book you as an opener not a headliner So the pay is less...

If you go book your own gigs and take the headlining slots etc you will make more money if you micro it yourself...

However as he levels up he starts to send you to theater's starts to book headlining gigs etc its like each time he levels you notice a very slight improvement in what he is booking for you. But its slow and gradual honestly Todd's done a great part at making the Manager improve over time and having the gigs reflect that.

However if you have been doing your managers job as frequently as possible to book stuff you get annoyed with him not doing lol. You see that your headlining worth per say greatly changes with your popularity. If you have a big enough change in popularity like I did it was easy to see it... 3 Battle of the Band wins in two days.

So the official answer is both, but the more indepth answer is :
The Manager just gets better at his job
Where as the bands popularity has a major effect on what your going to make at each gig.

So my advice is do your managers job whenever you can line up headlining gigs etc while he is artificially held back from doing so bye the fact he is a low level manager...

As for when are you going to headline at theater's and play in arena's etc that is everything to do with your manager. And far less to do with your popularity....

[jfoytek]

Originally posted by Uncle Fester:

OK, here is what I deduce is maybe the crux of the situation. My current band "Hog Tied" finally got to release it's second album on April 20, 2007. I immediately booked a short tour to promote the CD, the band was just under 7 in popularity (6.8 I believe). By the time this three week tour was over, my band was just above 9 popularity, so, I booked another tour in another part of the country, Pa, NY, NJ, Oh, and Mi. So I think there is a bug in about this range, because I never saw more than a 0.02 increase in popularity at any gig during this stretch, and actually only saw this big jump once. Some of the gigs I didn't even get a popularity raise at all, so how I got this big of a jump in popularity, from 6.8 to about a 9.4 in three weeks, should be attributed to a bug, unless you can persuade me otherwise.

Sounds to me more like your popularity had everything to do with your recent release of a cd and your slow down of popularity gain is likely with the slow down of your new CD no longer being the shinny new music of the month rising up in the charts.... The fact you went on tour probably had less impact then you think, but the CD itself likely had more impact on your quick rise....

[Uncle Fester]

Most places I am around a +26 draw. Being based in Dallas Tx, my only problem neighboring states are Arkansas and Louisiana, one if not both are negative draws of the opposite factor. It is hard to avoid those states when gigging the 300 mile radius. I took notice of the draw in the north eastern states mentioned, and in New York at least, I am actually a +36 draw there and maybe Pa and NJ too.

The album sales, well, I released the second album, and it debuted about 346 on the chart, and rose to current first week charting of just under 300, about 299 I believe. The second week, it dropped 2 places and went back on an upward trend the third week of sales I can't remember but it is back to rising in the charts. I have about 1 more week of the first tour in the Texas area, then off to the north eastern states, before back to Texas area for final tour set up.

[Uncle Fester]

No, you guys are misunderstanding. Before the release of the second album, my popularity was about a 6.8, April 20, I released the album, after 2-3 weeks of touring the first leg of the album release tour, I jumped up from 6.8 to about 9.4, to me, that is an uprecedented jump in popularity, when it took me the entire first year just to make it to 6.8 on a more weak album, or basically a 50% jump in 3 weeks. I'm not mad about anything my manager has or has not done, he is improving, and I am pleased. I'm just baffled by the sudden growth in popularity. If it is not a bug, then I must be doing something absolutely right, it just seems like an unusual burst of popularity in a short time.

[Uncle Fester]

OK, here is a breakdown of the first leg of the new album tour. The last gig before the album release was played on Apr 17, with a final popularity of 6.7, and each date below shows my popularity after the played gig.

Apr 23 (Monday) 7.32
Apr 24 - 7.33
Apr 25 - 7.33
Apr 26 - 7.34
Apr 27 - 7.34
Apr 28 - 7.35
Apr 29 - no gig, Sunday
Apr 30 - 7.92 (Monday)
May 1 - 7.85 (yes, that is correct, not a typo)
May 2 - 7.85
May 3 - no gig scheduled (Thursday)
May 4 - 7.86
May 5 - 7.86
May 6 - no gig, Sunday
May 7 - 8.46 (yes, that big of a jump)
May 8 - 8.46
May 9 - 8.46
May 10 - 8.47
May 11 - 8.47
May 12 - 8.48
May 13 - no gig, Sunday
May 14 - 9.12
May 15 - 9.12
May 16 - no gig scheduled
May 17 - 9.12

This is the first tour of the CD supporting tour. If you need to see a file from my game, tell me how to find it, and how to post it, I will do that. That is what alerted me to the sudden gain in popularity, from a 6.7 pre-release, to a 9.12 in three weeks. Strange, no? And a drop in between, but then to regain it.