Your class tier list?

[Frostfeather]

I'm curious to know how other people are seeing the different classes in terms of relative power. I started forming a kind of "tier list" in my mind pretty quick without looking at the guide so the guild's list wouldn't influence my choices. Now that I have seen it after a while, I'm not surprised casters are on top... they usually are in CRPGs so long as you use them well. But they're particularly good in Augury of Chaos because of large enemy groups and because of the fact they don't rely on gear very heavily.

Anyway, this would be my list, considering all parts of the game:

SS: Psionicist

They're like Wizards, but can keep casting their best and latest "spells" (Powers) repeatedly without concern for spell slots, and most Powers scale can scale down for efficiency or scale up for greater effect. They don't have to worry about being Silenced, and they don't have to worry so much about being Grappled, Paralyzed, or Encased as they can keep casting. For area damage, they're unmatched overall and will probably outperform even a Red Wizard due to being able to spam Energy Ball nonstop while always choosing the best type of energy and the best defense to attack (Reflex vs Fort). Their control, debuffs, and save or suck Powers are just as good though.

S: Wizard, Cleric

Wizards get so many spells, so many unique spells, so many great buff/debuffs, and so many unique Feats that you probably want one in your group regardless of your group's strategy.

I don't usually rank Clerics so high in D&D/Pathfinder type games because high Initiative arcane offense is usually best. But in KotC2, there are lots of enemy casters and you probably can't prevent them all from casting, so the ability to prevent/remove bad things is more valuable. And there are improvements to Cleric spells like Sound Burst and Holy Smite that make them great on offense/debuffs too.

Wizard Attunements are all good so long as you make use of them in some way, but I think Green generally wins out for Move Action Haste. Similarly, while many Cleric Domains can be great so long as you make use of them, Mysticism would be my top pick for Move Action spells (and increased effect on them).

A+: Druid

They're efficient, versatile and they have nice summons. But they're ranked slightly lower than the other pure casters because they're missing too many good things: Accelerate, Break Enchantment, Mass Heal, True Rez, etc. Also, they're limited in small spaces where big area spells would hit the group and where large summons may not even fit. They do get several outdoor late game fights to shine in, though.

I'd put Earth above the other Spheres, but not by much. They're all good.

A: Fighter, Bard, Mage Knight, Rogue

Fighters get Wade In and tons of unique Feats, but fall off a bit in the late game.

Bard Songs are always useful and the +DC song scales particularly well into the late game because it becomes increasingly difficult to debuff enemy saves. Bard Spells can fill some gaps in your group, but Silence is probably going to be useful if nothing else.

Mage Knights can be extremely tanky, very good with Touch spells, and also very good with area damage. Consistently solid class all game.

I know ranking the Rogue here may be a little controversial, but mine are easily on par with Fighter kills in the early/early-mid game and effectively turn into casters for the late game because of the piles of high level Wizard scrolls the game gives you. The only time they struggle a little is in the mid game against certain enemies, but if you make good use of your Rogue spells and scrolls, they're still not bad. They're on par with Fighters (to me) because they tend to be tankier, more mobile, and do better in the late game.

A-: Psychic Healer, Sorcerer, Warlock

All these caster hybrids are weighed down by the fact that they're Multi-Ability Dependent. Add to that the loss of unique Psionicist/Wizard/Cleric Feats and slower spell/Power progression and you're almost always better off as a pure caster. They're still generally good by using half their spells/Powers for offense and half for defense/support.

B+: Monk, Psychic Warrior, Bishop

Monks are fine, but Fighters are usually better. That pretty much sums it up.

Psychic Warriors are great Grapplers and actually get some area damage later, too. But they're rather limited on Power Points and often can't justify taking time to cast slower buffs in combat. It's a fun class, but they're not as effective as many others.

Bishop is a mixed bag. The combinations of Domain Powers can make for unique/versatile characters, but usually you're just better off with a Cleric instead. They can be rather strong earlier in the game, but they're going to fall off compared to a Cleric later.

B: Barbarian, Death Knight, Storm Warrior, Champion

Considering how much the guide repeatedly focuses on Grappling, I'm surprised it ranks Barbarians last because they're great for it. The move speed bonus helps counter one of the biggest drawbacks of the best Grappling race. And Free Action Strength boost is always nice.

Death Knights are good when working with others, maybe Sneak Attacking a Grappled enemy or helping to debuff something with Aura of Dread. There are simply too many big groups of enemies for them to compete with slightly better classes though. Aura of Dread is the only thing keeping them from being in a lower tier.

Storm Warrior works better when they lean into their casting a bit more, but at that point... you should just be a Druid.

And Champion may as well be a Cleric/Bishop instead.

B-: Gladiator, Samurai

Gladiator is fine in the early game with the combat Feats, but they're too limited as time goes on. If Blinding Strike can't work or isn't useful in a particular light, they're just gimped Fighters.

Samurai are kind of like Gladiators: a good early game class that tends to fall off later.

C: Paladin, Ranger

You'll notice these are only C and not D or F because none of the classes are really bad in this game. These classes are just a little too niche to compete as well with the rest, though they can still be good in the right group.

I actually like Paladins in KotC2, but objectively, I have to acknowledge that they're not the strongest class. They get moments to shine here and there with Smite, but later they're probably better off just casting Cleric scrolls so your more useful party members can do more important things.

Rangers are nice interrupters and of course great at ranged combat. But ranged weapons are limited in this game, and you lose all your equipment at a certain point. Add to that limited ammo and early game Cover penalties and they're just more limited than others.


So what are your thoughts? For reference, the guidebook ranks them: Wizard, Psionicist, Cleric, Druid, Bishop, Fighter, Gladiator, Warlock, Psychic Healer, Sorcerer, Bard, Psychic Warrior, Monk, Death Knight, Paladin, Ranger, Samurai, Storm Warrior, Champion, Mage Knight, Rogue, and Barbarian.

[fastello]

The Bishop gets a bonus if you take the Ice elemental npc, as you can hurt things and heal him with the turning feats.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by night4:

I'm curious to know how other people are seeing the different classes in terms of relative power. I started forming a kind of "tier list" in my mind pretty quick without looking at the guide so the guild's list wouldn't influence my choices. Now that I have seen it after a while, I'm not surprised casters are on top... they usually are in CRPGs so long as you use them well. But they're particularly good in Augury of Chaos because of large enemy groups and because of the fact they don't rely on gear very heavily.

Anyway, this would be my list, considering all parts of the game:

SS: Psionicist

They're like Wizards, but can keep casting their best and latest "spells" (Powers) repeatedly without concern for spell slots, and most Powers scale can scale down for efficiency or scale up for greater effect. They don't have to worry about being Silenced, and they don't have to worry so much about being Grappled, Paralyzed, or Encased as they can keep casting. For area damage, they're unmatched overall and will probably outperform even a Red Wizard due to being able to spam Energy Ball nonstop while always choosing the best type of energy and the best defense to attack (Reflex vs Fort). Their control, debuffs, and save or suck Powers are just as good though.

S: Wizard, Cleric

Wizards get so many spells, so many unique spells, so many great buff/debuffs, and so many unique Feats that you probably want one in your group regardless of your group's strategy.

I don't usually rank Clerics so high in D&D/Pathfinder type games because high Initiative arcane offense is usually best. But in KotC2, there are lots of enemy casters and you probably can't prevent them all from casting, so the ability to prevent/remove bad things is more valuable. And there are improvements to Cleric spells like Sound Burst and Holy Smite that make them great on offense/debuffs too.

Wizard Attunements are all good so long as you make use of them in some way, but I think Green generally wins out for Move Action Haste. Similarly, while many Cleric Domains can be great so long as you make use of them, Mysticism would be my top pick for Move Action spells (and increased effect on them).

A+: Druid

They're efficient, versatile and they have nice summons. But they're ranked slightly lower than the other pure casters because they're missing too many good things: Accelerate, Break Enchantment, Mass Heal, True Rez, etc. Also, they're limited in small spaces where big area spells would hit the group and where large summons may not even fit. They do get several outdoor late game fights to shine in, though.

I'd put Earth above the other Spheres, but not by much. They're all good.

A: Fighter, Bard, Mage Knight, Rogue

Fighters get Wade In and tons of unique Feats, but fall off a bit in the late game.

Bard Songs are always useful and the +DC song scales particularly well into the late game because it becomes increasingly difficult to debuff enemy saves. Bard Spells can fill some gaps in your group, but Silence is probably going to be useful if nothing else.

Mage Knights can be extremely tanky, very good with Touch spells, and also very good with area damage. Consistently solid class all game.

I know ranking the Rogue here may be a little controversial, but mine are easily on par with Fighter kills in the early/early-mid game and effectively turn into casters for the late game because of the piles of high level Wizard scrolls the game gives you. The only time they struggle a little is in the mid game against certain enemies, but if you make good use of your Rogue spells and scrolls, they're still not bad. They're on par with Fighters (to me) because they tend to be tankier, more mobile, and do better in the late game.

A-: Psychic Healer, Sorcerer, Warlock

All these caster hybrids are weighed down by the fact that they're Multi-Ability Dependent. Add to that the loss of unique Psionicist/Wizard/Cleric Feats and slower spell/Power progression and you're almost always better off as a pure caster. They're still generally good by using half their spells/Powers for offense and half for defense/support.

B+: Monk, Psychic Warrior, Bishop

Monks are fine, but Fighters are usually better. That pretty much sums it up.

Psychic Warriors are great Grapplers and actually get some area damage later, too. But they're rather limited on Power Points and often can't justify taking time to cast slower buffs in combat. It's a fun class, but they're not as effective as many others.

Bishop is a mixed bag. The combinations of Domain Powers can make for unique/versatile characters, but usually you're just better off with a Cleric instead. They can be rather strong earlier in the game, but they're going to fall off compared to a Cleric later.

B: Barbarian, Death Knight, Storm Warrior, Champion

Considering how much the guide repeatedly focuses on Grappling, I'm surprised it ranks Barbarians last because they're great for it. The move speed bonus helps counter one of the biggest drawbacks of the best Grappling race. And Free Action Strength boost is always nice.

Death Knights are good when working with others, maybe Sneak Attacking a Grappled enemy or helping to debuff something with Aura of Dread. There are simply too many big groups of enemies for them to compete with slightly better classes though. Aura of Dread is the only thing keeping them from being in a lower tier.

Storm Warrior works better when they lean into their casting a bit more, but at that point... you should just be a Druid.

And Champion may as well be a Cleric/Bishop instead.

B-: Gladiator, Samurai

Gladiator is fine in the early game with the combat Feats, but they're too limited as time goes on. If Blinding Strike can't work or isn't useful in a particular light, they're just gimped Fighters.

Samurai are kind of like Gladiators: a good early game class that tends to fall off later.

C: Paladin, Ranger

You'll notice these are only C and not D or F because none of the classes are really bad in this game. These classes are just a little too niche to compete as well with the rest, though they can still be good in the right group.

I actually like Paladins in KotC2, but objectively, I have to acknowledge that they're not the strongest class. They get moments to shine here and there with Smite, but later they're probably better off just casting Cleric scrolls so your more useful party members can do more important things.

Rangers are nice interrupters and of course great at ranged combat. But ranged weapons are limited in this game, and you lose all your equipment at a certain point. Add to that limited ammo and early game Cover penalties and they're just more limited than others.


So what are your thoughts? For reference, the guidebook ranks them: Wizard, Psionicist, Cleric, Druid, Bishop, Fighter, Gladiator, Warlock, Psychic Healer, Sorcerer, Bard, Psychic Warrior, Monk, Death Knight, Paladin, Ranger, Samurai, Storm Warrior, Champion, Mage Knight, Rogue, and Barbarian.

Great thing about this kind of game (and this is one of the best of it's kind) is that every class can shine with the right build/tactic and the fun is in finding it. It's not designed to be easily solvable like games where you can just look up the uber build and blow through the game with it.

Make a Halfling Ranger with the +1 atk and you'll blow through cover even early, and with 20 WIS you can beat saves with your spells as well. Turtling around a Pal (who gets access to Mass pro from Alignment earlier than even Cleric and gives other bonuses to those in proximity) creates an entirely different experience than nuking things from afar.

About the only must have I think at this point is a Rogue and haven't been able to go without Bishop or Bard yet either. Magic + Mysticism + Reach is great by level 5 but Justice with Augmented Summoning and Summoning Mastery is really strong right off the bat as it puts your Turning activations to good use right away while letting you Summon a Fire Elemental and Bless the opening turn.

Bard is D10, full BAB, and tons of Bonus Feats so can get there both in Archery (and there are good bows to be had shortly after you lose your equipment) and tanking (craft a Master Brigantine cheap early and use the free Heavy Shield) with reasnable melee damage with a good weapon. You can use his spells to just spam Silence and Healing if nothing else.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by dwarner:

Great thing about this kind of game (and this is one of the best of it's kind) is that every class can shine with the right build/tactic and the fun is in finding it. It's not designed to be easily solvable like games where you can just look up the uber build and blow through the game with it.

Yeah I think it shows the game is relatively well designed when there are no truly weak classes and when it's fairly difficult to rank them. These rankings are influenced by the general encounter design of Augury of Chaos, so I'm sure different classes will feel a bit more or less useful in another module.

[Sloul Des Tucs]

I cannot so much discuss the intricacies of class tiers since it is a bit blurry to me.
I was never a huge fan of D&D to start with, so I don't have all the knowledge that some might have upon its rules.

Although, from what I've read, Red Wizards seem to be the top of the food chain.
There have been some debate here and elsewhere about the prevalence of either Psionicist and R-Wizard, but the last seem to get the upper hand in the later stage of the game.
I suspect that the Phoenix transformation might have something to do with it.

Your take sounds pretty solid overall.

[Valandryl]

I'd rank :

SS Tier : Psionicist :

They start very weak, but as soon as they have the energy ball, they become the masters of the battlefield. This game is all about AoE damage dealing, they rule at it. They also have great buffs and debuffs. And their idea of "a global mana points pool" allows them to use only 1 spell all day long if they wish so, which is fantastic.

S tier : Mage and Druids :

They can deal stupid amounts of damage and debuffs too, but they can't just focus all their magic capacities on 1 or 2 spells only, they have to deal with the "spells by levels" which forces them to have a more limited use of the most powerful spells than psionicists.

A tier : Clerics :

They have the necessary healing spells and some decent buffs, even though buffing saving throws, for example, seems irrelevant on this game as you always fail your throws anyway. So their buffs end up being useless.

B tier : full caster hybrids (bishops, warlocks etc.) + Mantis Monk :

They'll have access to what makes the pure classes strong, but they'll only have watered-down versions of it. For example, the energy ball of a warlock has a smaller radius than the one of your psionicist. So you prefer using real classes eventually.
Mantis Monk is incredibly powerful, in endgame they'll have like 8 attacks per round (unbuffed), 35 damage per attack, crazy attack bonuses and will bypass most of the enemies DR. Add their SR, movement speed and natural AC, they're the only killing machines apart from casters. However, they greatly suffer from all the crowd control all your melee eats all day.

C tier : Hybrids of melee/caster type :

Melee deeply sucks in comparison with magic on this game. Your melee fighters will be 100% of the time tripped, disarmed or grappled (or taken in fogs, or stunned or feared or stuck or whatever you like). So these classes are still better than pure melee because they have useful things to do, but they're not on par with the best classes.

D tier : Whatever melee that isn't a Mantis Monk :

Having one to tank a bit of damage is good. More is utter garbage. 90% of the enemies have AOO's at a range of 2 (or more) squares so you'll spend your life being hit by AOO's and these attacks will constantly trip/disarm or sunder you. And if you wanna be enlarged, your AC will be so bad you'll be hit 100% of the time.
Their only utility is to try and grapple AI casters, so you better cross your fingers you won't be tripped by all the AOO's you'll suffer while running to the mage you target, otherwise you're 100% useless.
Seriously, get one more mage or psionicist instead, mute casters if that's what you want, or nuke them all. You're 100 times more useful than any kind of melee guy.

[Clangeddin.86]

There's high bias towards casters in this game, that's undeniable, even among enemies it becomes pretty obvious that casters are much more dangerous and game-changers than non casters, especially in the end game where the "difficulty" comes from throwing at you a dozen of wizards and warlocks per fight, once you realize that they are the only serious threat on the battlefield, the game simply turns into a matter of disabling them or killing them before they kill you (stuff like Zone of Silence is golden here, in alternative anything that bypasses their prebuffed spell resistance also works very well).

What really surpised me was how my fighter could easily dispatch a big demon by inflicting over 600 damage per round with a simple full attack action, but could not do the same to casters as they end up being immune to critical hits the whole time, and there is no reliable way to dispel all their prebuffs without some serious luck on RNG.

They also end up having lots of HP as well, in fact I'm pretty sure I saw Warlocks and Wizards with more HP than their cultist gladiator counterparts!

[dwarner]

Originally posted by Valandryl:

I'd rank :

SS Tier : Psionicist :

They start very weak, but as soon as they have the energy ball, they become the masters of the battlefield. This game is all about AoE damage dealing, they rule at it. They also have great buffs and debuffs. And their idea of "a global mana points pool" allows them to use only 1 spell all day long if they wish so, which is fantastic.

S tier : Mage and Druids :

They can deal stupid amounts of damage and debuffs too, but they can't just focus all their magic capacities on 1 or 2 spells only, they have to deal with the "spells by levels" which forces them to have a more limited use of the most powerful spells than psionicists.

A tier : Clerics :

They have the necessary healing spells and some decent buffs, even though buffing saving throws, for example, seems irrelevant on this game as you always fail your throws anyway. So their buffs end up being useless.

B tier : full caster hybrids (bishops, warlocks etc.) + Mantis Monk :

They'll have access to what makes the pure classes strong, but they'll only have watered-down versions of it. For example, the energy ball of a warlock has a smaller radius than the one of your psionicist. So you prefer using real classes eventually.
Mantis Monk is incredibly powerful, in endgame they'll have like 8 attacks per round (unbuffed), 35 damage per attack, crazy attack bonuses and will bypass most of the enemies DR. Add their SR, movement speed and natural AC, they're the only killing machines apart from casters. However, they greatly suffer from all the crowd control all your melee eats all day.

C tier : Hybrids of melee/caster type :

Melee deeply sucks in comparison with magic on this game. Your melee fighters will be 100% of the time tripped, disarmed or grappled (or taken in fogs, or stunned or feared or stuck or whatever you like). So these classes are still better than pure melee because they have useful things to do, but they're not on par with the best classes.

D tier : Whatever melee that isn't a Mantis Monk :

Having one to tank a bit of damage is good. More is utter garbage. 90% of the enemies have AOO's at a range of 2 (or more) squares so you'll spend your life being hit by AOO's and these attacks will constantly trip/disarm or sunder you. And if you wanna be enlarged, your AC will be so bad you'll be hit 100% of the time.
Their only utility is to try and grapple AI casters, so you better cross your fingers you won't be tripped by all the AOO's you'll suffer while running to the mage you target, otherwise you're 100% useless.
Seriously, get one more mage or psionicist instead, mute casters if that's what you want, or nuke them all. You're 100 times more useful than any kind of melee guy.

There are ways to avoid AoOs. Rogues avoid them for free.

If you cover your skills by diversifying your approach you’ll be surprised less often, which opens up a lot more tactical options.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Sloul Des Tucs:

I cannot so much discuss the intricacies of class tiers since it is a bit blurry to me.
I was never a huge fan of D&D to start with, so I don't have all the knowledge that some might have upon its rules.

Although, from what I've read, Red Wizards seem to be the top of the food chain.
There have been some debate here and elsewhere about the prevalence of either Psionicist and R-Wizard, but the last seem to get the upper hand in the later stage of the game.
I suspect that the Phoenix transformation might have something to do with it.

Your take sounds pretty solid overall.

I personally found that Psionicist outperforms Red Wizard in the late game significantly for a few reasons.

Red Wizards can't change their damage type to easily exploit vulnerability or target a weaker save. When they choose a different spell to change their damage type, it usually has a worse range and/or radius vs Energy Ball (and usually isn't party friendly - a big problem in tight spaces). And Red Wizard Power Fireball (or any fire spell, but Power Fireball in particular because a strength of Red Wizard is getting it as a level 6 spell) is relatively poor in the late game due to fire immune enemies.

Wizards have to spend 8th level spell slots to Accelerate whereas Psionicists don't have that limitation. And Wizards don't have Tornado Blast. Tornado Blast is ridiculous because it has a huge radius and ignores Spell Resistance and Prones everything, reducing what they can do if they survive to their turn. And Psionicists can keep spamming this 9th level Power twice per turn if they want whereas Wizards are limited to spell slots.

Finally, the Wizard transformation is costly and may put the Wizard behind a level, which affects Spell Penetration. And I suspect on Archmage difficulty, it may be difficult to justify the gold cost for transformation between needing to pay for level ups and all the great gear you might want.

Red Wizards are still really great, but in my game, it wasn't even close between the two. But the good news is that Wizards and Psionicists work great together and there's a lot of synergy with their spells and powers, so it makes sense to have both and not choose between them. Though I'd still probably go with a Green Wizard in most cases now.

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Valandryl:

I'd rank :

SS Tier : Psionicist...

I think you're pretty much spot-on as far as the late game goes. I generally couldn't have melee move away from the group very far because of the crapstorm of spells and effects going on from both sides, so I definitely feel you there.

The only thing I might add to Psionicist would be that Psionicists are really good from level 3 with Improved Energy Missile. It has a long range and enemies don't need to be anywhere near each other. It's so good, I'm even taking Improved Energy Missile in my Archmage run where you're severely Feat starved. My Psionicists usually end up casting Energy Ball the most throughout the game, followed by Energy Missile (early game) and Tornado Blast (late game).

I think they're actually pretty good from level 1-2 with Demoralize for 1 Power Point, and Mind Thrust can easily take out most enemies hiding in the trees. But yeah, Energy Ball is so crazy it's pretty much game-defining.

[dwarner]

The thing about Hybrid casters is that they force you to cover your saves (since you can’t dump WIS/CHR like pure Wiz/Psi) as well as covering more skills. It’s not documented but Warlock covers both Arcane and Psionic skills (you want 20 INT to get full benefit).

If you’ve got a Pal you’re incentivized to turtle but otherwise if you keep your speed up you can lock things down with some Silence and Quicksand then send the melee out to clean things up.

Reach Samurai is best at this for mass quantities but other classes have their own strengths when properly geared.

By the time you get to overwhelming numbers even hybrid casters have the tools to deal.

[Zzyl_tsw]

I had read in an old post (sth like 1 year ago), that psionist were "not so good" (compared ot wizard) late game because of their PP pulls went down fast (ex: as the option to pay more PP for a power bonus was often required) and their power were somewhat weaker than wizard.

Seemed it changed since, considering everyone put them as "SS".

I took an elven warlock to have at least one character with psionist ability and it is quite decent/good in enchanter difficulty.

he was stronger at the very beginning because of more "spells + power" than a simple wizard.
Then average in the lower levels because no crossbow to use when no more spell/power and he was behind in term of spells levels.
I am at lvl 10 but around lvl 8, he began to shine again.

I might try a full psionist if i a another playthrough

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Zzyl_tsw:

I had read in an old post (sth like 1 year ago), that psionist were "not so good" (compared ot wizard) late game because of their PP pulls went down fast (ex: as the option to pay more PP for a power bonus was often required) and their power were somewhat weaker than wizard.

Seemed it changed since, considering everyone put them as "SS".

I took an elven warlock to have at least one character with psionist ability and it is quite decent/good in enchanter difficulty.

he was stronger at the very beginning because of more "spells + power" than a simple wizard.
Then average in the lower levels because no crossbow to use when no more spell/power and he was behind in term of spells levels.
I am at lvl 10 but around lvl 8, he began to shine again.

I might try a full psionist if i a another playthrough

Well for reference, my Psionicists in my first run have 464 and 504 (40 bonus from gear) Power Points before the final battle. Even if you pay 20 per Power, which you probably won't every time, that's still like 23-25 maxed Powers. Maybe PP were increased at some point, I'm not sure.

I would say to try a Psionicist sometime. Even if you want to mainly use them to debuff enemies and support your fighters at first, you can still easily become a very impressive damage dealer later.

[dwarner]

Originally posted by night4:

Originally posted by Zzyl_tsw:

I had read in an old post (sth like 1 year ago), that psionist were "not so good" (compared ot wizard) late game because of their PP pulls went down fast (ex: as the option to pay more PP for a power bonus was often required) and their power were somewhat weaker than wizard.

Seemed it changed since, considering everyone put them as "SS".

I took an elven warlock to have at least one character with psionist ability and it is quite decent/good in enchanter difficulty.

he was stronger at the very beginning because of more "spells + power" than a simple wizard.
Then average in the lower levels because no crossbow to use when no more spell/power and he was behind in term of spells levels.
I am at lvl 10 but around lvl 8, he began to shine again.

I might try a full psionist if i a another playthrough

Well for reference, my Psionicists in my first run have 464 and 504 (40 bonus from gear) Power Points before the final battle. Even if you pay 20 per Power, which you probably won't every time, that's still like 23-25 maxed Powers. Maybe PP were increased at some point, I'm not sure.

I would say to try a Psionicist sometime. Even if you want to mainly use them to debuff enemies and support your fighters at first, you can still easily become a very impressive damage dealer later.

Yeah Warlock is a nice way to cover your bases early skill wise and add utility while coming into his own midgame where you can fully power your psi stuff since you also have a wiz book and can use Meteors instead of xBow. You can even use your Psi buffs to tank and use Feint to set up attax for Rogue and the like.

Only thing is you’re missing out on an Attunement for the Wiz side and the bonus feats the Psi gets (and uses well) as well as of course slower progression.

[Lord Hexonix]

Ranger... Critical / Carefull / Rapid Shot.

Sniper:
Craft Warbow:
1) +1 Enchant
2) Barbed
3) Giant
4) Force
5) Entangle
6) Sonic
-OR-
5)Holy

Bracer of Impact (+1 crit multy)
Ring of Archer +2
Belt of Enlarge for +1 to Size
Robe of Eyes (True sign)

Optional
Ring Of Destruction +10
Ring of Adamantine

its realy top mage killer. Garanted 3d8x5+15 damage + Force damage + Elemental Weapon + Explosive Arrow + Magic Arrow effect... Near all Non Crit immune caster die frim the 1 shot, Who immune - lost 50-70% HP,

If y like machingun use Rapid shot and Ranger buff.
Warbow:
1) +1 (1)
2) Barbed (1)
3) Keen (1)
4) Giant (2)
5) Destrusction (4)
6) last one point at y wish
-OR-
5) Holy (2)
6) Sonic (2)
7) Entangle (1)

Adamantium ring to pierce DR.
Ring of Destruction +10
100500 Arrow XDDDD

[Frostfeather]

Originally posted by Lord Hexonix:

Ranger... Critical / Carefull / Rapid Shot.

Sniper:
Craft Warbow:
1) +1 Enchant
2) Barbed
3) Giant
4) Force
5) Entangle
6) Sonic
-OR-
5)Holy

Bracer of Impact (+1 crit multy)
Ring of Archer +2
Belt of Enlarge for +1 to Size
Robe of Eyes (True sign)

Optional
Ring Of Destruction +10
Ring of Adamantine

its realy top mage killer. Garanted 3d8x5+15 damage + Force damage + Elemental Weapon + Explosive Arrow + Magic Arrow effect... Near all Non Crit immune caster die frim the 1 shot, Who immune - lost 50-70% HP,

If y like machingun use Rapid shot and Ranger buff.
Warbow:
1) +1 (1)
2) Barbed (1)
3) Keen (1)
4) Giant (2)
5) Destrusction (4)
6) last one point at y wish
-OR-
5) Holy (2)
6) Sonic (2)
7) Entangle (1)

Adamantium ring to pierce DR.
Ring of Destruction +10
100500 Arrow XDDDD

I can respect the fact that Rangers become stronger over time and particularly in the late game where it may not be viable to have melee charge in. I still have a few issues with them though: Your casters can kill groups of enemy casters simultaneously, and enemy casters usually come in groups, so Rangers only really compete against stronger single targets. Your non-Feat starved classes like Fighter or Bard can become solid archers by the late game without the early game headaches Ranger has. And considering how expensive crafting is and how stretched for money/xp you may be (esp on a higher difficulty), I don't like judging a class based on what you could maybe craft for them eventually.

I do appreciate the crafting suggestions though.