Does anyone else feel the "combat" system in this game is inherently flawed?

[the-twist]

Hi there. I am not very far into the game, but the combat IMMEDIATELY felt really weird and inherently flawed to me. Let me know if my observations don't pan out, but;

Your character is not "playing" the music. They're avoiding the music - specifically, the beats. What this means is that you as a player have to act AFTER a beat/melodic phrase. A beat from the song is thrown at you, THEN you ump/get out the way. This means Everhood is a rhythm game where the player is not actually playing along with a piece of music. When I was playing, over and over again I would jump/move/act in time with the beat only to end up getting hurt or acting for no reason. This makes the combat feel awkward, but more importantly; really, really unsatisfying. Reacting to music being played a split second later is nowhere near as fun or engaging as actually playing a song.

Less importantly, I think the point from which the beat-bara originate is really close to the player, so they don't have very much time to react. I don't mind the game being difficult - I lovve a good, challenging rhythm game - but this issue to me onl compounded the frustrating gameplay for me.

Does this change as the game goes on, or is it more fun/compelling on lower difficulties? I played on hard. I honestly don't know how the developers would fix this issue with the game without completely retooling it.

[Flamefriends]

I mean coming off of Just Shapes and Beats, I see no problem with it. It's fun, and I like the music.

[Gorge Express]

This is a great game, but yea I feel like the combat is the weakest aspect of it. Which is a shame, considering how much of the game consists of the combat. It's still good, just not up to par with the rest of the game. There's so little depth.

It's not a rhythm game and that's fine.

I played on hard, and the only fight that gave me problems was the jump rope.

[Opts]

The game is $10. Going on about this a lil too hard.

[mldb88]

the-twist eredeti hozzászólása:

Hi there. I am not very far into the game, but the combat IMMEDIATELY felt really weird and inherently flawed to me. Let me know if my observations don't pan out, but;

Your character is not "playing" the music. They're avoiding the music - specifically, the beats. What this means is that you as a player have to act AFTER a beat/melodic phrase. A beat from the song is thrown at you, THEN you ump/get out the way. This means Everhood is a rhythm game where the player is not actually playing along with a piece of music. When I was playing, over and over again I would jump/move/act in time with the beat only to end up getting hurt or acting for no reason. This makes the combat feel awkward, but more importantly; really, really unsatisfying. Reacting to music being played a split second later is nowhere near as fun or engaging as actually playing a song.

Less importantly, I think the point from which the beat-bara originate is really close to the player, so they don't have very much time to react. I don't mind the game being difficult - I lovve a good, challenging rhythm game - but this issue to me onl compounded the frustrating gameplay for me.

Does this change as the game goes on, or is it more fun/compelling on lower difficulties? I played on hard. I honestly don't know how the developers would fix this issue with the game without completely retooling it.

As a lot of people have mentioned, I think the biggest issue is you're still kind of working under the assumption that this is a rythm game. Much like Shapes and Beats, the game uses the music to generate attacks and patterns, but thats about it. It's not a rythm game, and treating it like one is going to get you killed.... a lot.... Once you learn to stop relying on the music for dodge cues and more use it as an indicator on when to prep for harder patterns or anticipate phases, you'll do a lot better. I feel you get plenty of time to react to the notes, though some of the later fights do get a bit rediculous with what's thrown at you (granted you also get a new mechanic that can help in a pinch).

Also with the amount of freedom of movement you have, your movements wouldn't always be on beat either if it were times with the music (safe spots where you can stand and let a few waves pass, etc). so eve retooling the game to make the player movements be on beat wouldn't really 'fix' things from your perspective either.

The combat does get a little more intricate and the patterns do get a lot harder as you hit the second act but the things you are having problems with for the most part dont really change.

[Simoko]

I like it. It definitely makes some fights super hard trying to gain energy while avoiding it all at the same time.

[The Electric Mindset]

OnlyFans Profile: Opts eredeti hozzászólása:

The game is $10. Going on about this a lil too hard.

Price is irrelevant for giving this type of feedback. You can't deny criticism because it's cheap.

[EvaChuuu]

I've never played a rhythm game before in my life so idk how much my opinion really matters, but I personally don't really have an issue with the combat system in the game, and for me just viewing at the game as an experience, I really enjoyed it.. But in response to treating Everhood like a rhythm game, the devs did comment this under a similar thread:

"Everhood is not a rhythm game. That is one of the unconventional ideas. We are deliberty breaking the rhythm because we are trying something new, but we are not the first one either(check Just Shapes & Beats) . People who enjoy rhythm games do find this system a bit “unconventional” but are able to let that go after a while. It is also noteworthy that we have received a lot of feedback from people who find rhythm games hard to play that Everhood is easier and they can enjoy musical battles without being punished because of their lack of rhythm"

[mldb88]

Also side note, some of the later/hidden fights, even having it be on rythm for dodges wouldn't help you the patterns get so intense. Found myself dropping down to normal for one fight and even down to story for another (more because my patience was gone at that point, it was 1am, and I needed sleep so screw it I'm clearing it just to finish and see what happens).

[88 keys]

the game is fun but it gets frustrating when you move into a direction the dev didnt want you to causing you to get hit by a wall of undodgable bullets

[mldb88]

HogSqueezer eredeti hozzászólása:

the game is fun but it gets frustrating when you move into a direction the dev didnt want you to causing you to get hit by a wall of undodgable bullets

How far are you into the game? this can get a 'little' better once you reach the second act thanks to new mechanics, though some fights I do agree it's a bit much and doesn't give enough reaction time (the Dev Gnomes say hi).

[TemmieNeko]

mldb88 eredeti hozzászólása:

Also side note, some of the later/hidden fights, even having it be on rythm for dodges wouldn't help you the patterns get so intense. Found myself dropping down to normal for one fight and even down to story for another (more because my patience was gone at that point, it was 1am, and I needed sleep so screw it I'm clearing it just to finish and see what happens).

yoiu could absolutely make it work on the beat.
you coulkd do exactly as ETg does with the dragun boss - fills the screen with shots, and only opens one prt for you to dodge into.
thi sgame already does this, so why not add pockets of guaranteed saftey, if you play by the beat?
that's the stuff that feels rewarding to a player coming purely for the rhythm aspects.
you could throwq endless bullets., but as long as you kept the beat you would be fine - just liek Crypt of the necrodancer
in other words, the gameplay ends up being 100% visual - you have to just avoid things in real time - which is fine - but coming from a perspective of a person thinking this was a rhythm game, this is a huge let down

[grandescoisa]

Yes, I felt frustrated through the whole game with this aspect, but cause I'm prone to blaming myself I thought I was overthinking the game and not letting myself feel it. But I also kept thinking that what might be happening was that if the notes reach the character exactly at the beat, then you'd have jump a little bit before. And I'm not talking about being off tempo (you hear the melody, than you wait one unit of rhythm to act on it). Even with this considered, you have to be a little bit off.

Another aspect that kept unsatisfied was my inability to watch the enemy during the fights. The style seems like a very important aspect of the game, but I constantly felt I was missing out on it. Maybe the gameplay doesn't work well with the proposed visual spectacle. Maybe I should've have played on a lower difficulty setting.

I don't know what I think of the game (like, I don't know how I would rate it). I enjoyed many of its other aspects: the music, the story, the graphics, the themes explored. But the mentioned problems persisted through all the experience.

Anyone else feels that way?

[UNCLEWOKIAN DANEBOT MIND-VIRUS]

Some rhythm games aren't really rhythm games, they're more like reflex games where the game tests you to see how fast you can react to a bunch of letters and symbols being thrown at you at once, but it's still important to remember the song itself and which notes are being associated with what obstacles are being thrown at you because the bosses are predictable and will repeat themselves all the same no matter how many times you lose to them.
Something like Parappa is a rhythm game because you're given a lot of telegraphing for what button pattern to push next.
But something like Friday Night Funkin' is also a rhythm game, until it's not and it starts throwing the whole word salad at you all at once, which is where it becomes a reflex game.
The line between rhythm and reflex can be very blurred sometimes.

[ShockedHearts]

I think its very much a beat styled game, since if you move left and right and jump to the beat you will almost always dodge the things coming at you. atleast thats how ive been playing so far and ive only died to the incinerator. its more like undertale though combat wise. dodgey boi.