For now best replay among BG1&2, ME1&2&3 (MEL), MEA, DAO, DA2

[Jarsonne]

I do an amazing retrospective of Bioware games since Mass Effect 1 which is the start of Mass Effect Legendary.

And if it's DAi that irritade me the most along first 10H or a bit more, it is also the best replay:
- ME1 I never enjoyed that much aged a lot despite various good changes with MEL, DAO also aged even if less.
- ME2 objectively aged for its 3D level but it's higher easthetic value hides it well. Otherwise it's a punch in the stomach with an incredibly punchy writing of any single line but encyclopedia stuff that is low quality writing (check The Witcher 1 encyclopedia for a top level encyclopedia). But it's apparent that ME2 simplified a lot many Rpg elements, moreover its combats aren't clearly much better than in ME1 MEL version.
- ME3 just didn't aged for me, and looks great, has great combats, have plenty great to good writing. But it's not the 100% great writing of ME2, there's some quests fillers and events with less punch/interest.
- MEA, I had a good memory of it, replay it shown me better some problems, many pale exploration, combats quite good but less tactical than ME3, companions well develop but failed feel woo. The result us it decreased a bit compared to the memory I had of it.
- DAO, I think I never played the full version in one play, quite bigger than I reminded, many problems cearly improved by full Ultimate version, and still the surprise to notice lack of enemies diversity, combats lacking of diversity a bit too often, and worse, combats not that great at Hard difficulty pushing to caution this destroying many designs as traps and ambushes. Still great but it aged a bit, and not as great than I reminded.
- DA2, a bit like MEA, I had a good memory of it, despite I could notice multiple flaws coming from a rushed game. Still overall a quite fun replay even if not at level of ME2&3 and DAO.
- DAI, I had a very good memory of it but had forget how good it was on many points. Once more it took me about 10H to get more comfortable with UI, commands, combats, but this time I do all combats with Tactical View, never in previous play and replays. I haven't finished a full play yet but woo, it's going to move up many places in mu all time favorite RpG list.

So for now from best replay to less best:
1. DAI & ME3
2. DAO
3. ME2
4. DA2
5. MEA
6. ME1

Woo care? Nobody, but I wanted share my current fun from playing the game.

[barzai]

I wanted to suggest a change to your order, most of which I otherwise agree with:

1. DAI & ME3
2. DAO
3. ME2
4. DA2
5. ME1
6. Having your teeth extracted with pliers without anesthetic
7. MEA

[Jarsonne]

That's nasty, did you replayed recently both ME1 in MEL and MEA?

I'd say that it depends of four points:
- If you like wild planet explorations certainly a bit improved in MEL version, but still no deep gameplay and many repetitive aspects, then you'll feel ME1 better than I do. For me when I compare to MEA wild exploration, MEA does much less bad, and even quite better with the only planet without car.
- If you like ME1 combats, and isn't hurt by multiple dungeons with mostly no details and visually simple and repetitive, then you'll feel ME1 better than MEA. For me when I compare both to MEA, MEA just does much better and ME1 not that well.
- Then there's ME1 main story, first parts are great and from Benetia death rather emotional the main story starts agains be quite good, but in between not that much. Ok I can admit for that ME1 is overall a bit better but the trilogy hasn't get yet its story full strength.
- And then there's companions, no matter how special are the few companions of ME1 they are far to be already those in ME2&3, and take independently they are hardly among best BioWare companions this will happen only with ME2&3.

For character building, ME1 isn't clearly better than MEA, for equipment and crafting MEA is clearly better.

And also you can apply an age handicap in favor of ME1, I don't hence for me ME1 also suffer of aging on multiple points, MEA much less.

EDIT:
And with quite more play of DAI but not yet finished the replay, im' still tempted to suggest to myself a change:
1. MEL
2. DAI
3. ME3
4. DAO
5. ME2
6. DA2
7. MEA
6. ME1

[barzai]

Originally posted by Jarsonne:

That's nasty, did you replayed recently both ME1 in MEL and MEA?

I'd say that it depends of four points:
- If you like wild planet explorations certainly a bit improved in MEL version, but still no deep gameplay and many repetitive aspects, then you'll feel ME1 better than I do. For me when I compare to MEA wild exploration, MEA does much less bad, and even quite better with the only planet without car.
- If you like ME1 combats, and isn't hurt by multiple dungeons with mostly no details and visually simple and repetitive, then you'll feel ME1 better than MEA. For me when I compare both to MEA, MEA just does much better and ME1 not that well.
- Then there's ME1 main story, first parts are great and from Benetia death rather emotional the main story starts agains be quite good, but in between not that much. Ok I can admit for that ME1 is overall a bit better but the trilogy hasn't get yet its story full strength.
- And then there's companions, no matter how special are the few companions of ME1 they are far to be already those in ME2&3, and take independently they are hardly among best BioWare companions this will happen only with ME2&3.

For character building, ME1 isn't clearly better than MEA, for equipment and crafting MEA is clearly better.

And also you can apply an age handicap in favor of ME1, I don't hence for me ME1 also suffer of aging on multiple points, MEA much less.

EDIT:
And with quite more play of DAI but not yet finished the replay, im' still tempted to suggest to myself a change:
1. MEL
2. DAI
3. ME3
4. DAO
5. ME2
6. DA2
7. MEA
6. ME1

I have many dislikes for MEA, most of which center around game-as-RPG issues that appear to be less high on your scope since most of what you write suggests that combat and exploration--and better graphics--are more important to you: feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point.

The only characters in MEA whom I can take seriously are: the dad who dies in the opening scenes; and the Krogan battlemaster. They are the only ones who have the gravitas suitable to the environment.

The rest--including both male and female protagonists--vary between uninteresting and nails-on-a-blackboard annoying. I think it's evident that EA/BW targeted a much younger demographic than us old codgers (speaking for myself ) who "made" ME original series--and by extension MELE--the success it was.

The dialogue is weak, the aliens are paint-by-numbers. In particular the blue-skins we ally with suffer IMHO from "Avatar Syndrome." As I put it to some friends after we'd seen the original movie together, if the aliens had been arachnoids or insectoids--or even unattractive humanoids--would we have been quite so sympathetic?

To ask the question is to answer it: in fact the movie--and the portrayal of the Jardan (sp?) in MEA--leans heavily into a classic Greek trope, namely, "That which is beautiful is good."

At the risk of piling on, I would add--outside the RPG-specific issues--that I found the exploration in MEA even more excruciating than the exploration in ME1...and that was--as I assume we agree--not fun.

As to the MEA crafting...meh. Not a huge fan, and comparing it to ME1 in that regard is a bit odd since "crafting" as I understand the term--harvesting resources in order to create better gear or enhance existing gear--does not figure at all in ME1.

The only thing that even resembles "crafting" in ME1 is the possibility of add-ons to your existing gear. To me that is not crafting and I doubt many who played the original game at the time it was released would disagree since at that time crafting had not become an integral element of RPG games. At most you could craft runes in DAO (courtesy of a DLC) and DA2 and even there it was of marginal significance.

The only RPG with crafting I play a lot is DAI, and it took me a good long time to warm up to it. Now--after several thousand hours of play--I'm used to it and spend a fair amount of time engaged in it. But having played MEA after DAI, I honestly didn't find MEA crafting to be an improvement over DAI.

As a final point, I played MEA through to completion exactly once, and I gave up partway through my second. ME1, OTOH...several hundred hours in the original plus (I presume) about a third of the roughly 800 hours I've put in on MELE. So you appreciate I'm not just sniping from the sidelines...I'm basing the comparison on actual hands-on experience.

[Jarsonne]

Originally posted by barzai:

I have many dislikes for MEA, most of which center around game-as-RPG issues that appear to be less high on your scope since most of what you write suggests that combat and exploration--and better graphics--are more important to you: feel free to correct me if I'm misunderstanding your point.

I certainly give a bit more value to combats than many, my reason are:
- Most often most character building is related to combats.
- combats tend be the deeper and more diversified gameplay layout in most RpG.

And for exploration, too story guided RpG removed too much value from it, and many open world facing problem of quantity choose lower average quality, hence i'm a bit sensible to the topic I consider often too much ignored;

For graphics, no idea why you quote that, but then it's a major part of the world of a Rpg.

And then that you skip quote writing, quests mechanics, puzzlign and tricks, management elements, more, No I don't ignore them.

Originally posted by barzai:

The only characters in MEA whom I can take seriously are: the dad who dies in the opening scenes; and the Krogan battlemaster. They are the only ones who have the gravitas suitable to the environment.

The rest--including both male and female protagonists--vary between uninteresting and nails-on-a-blackboard annoying.

That could be your feeling, but I fail see its objective reality.

Originally posted by barzai:

I think it's evident that EA/BW targeted a much younger demographic than us old codgers (speaking for myself ) who "made" ME original series--and by extension MELE--the success it was.

I'm 60+ and fail see MEA as a game written for kids or younger, or not more than ME1 was. I refuse compare writing in video games to books, movies, series.

You mention MEL but that's not my point, I considered ME1, even MEL edition, without any ME2&3 perspective, and I don't see any clear lead to ME1, only a small lead, unlike MEL which is at another level.

Originally posted by barzai:

The dialogue is weak, the aliens are paint-by-numbers. In particular the blue-skins we ally with suffer IMHO from "Avatar Syndrome." As I put it to some friends after we'd seen the original movie together, if the aliens had been arachnoids or insectoids--or even unattractive humanoids--would we have been quite so sympathetic?

To ask the question is to answer it: in fact the movie--and the portrayal of the Jardan (sp?) in MEA--leans heavily into a classic Greek trope, namely, "That which is beautiful is good."

But do you realize how more a caricature are ME1 Asari? it's a race that is only sexy gorgeous females knowing that such game is widely played in majority by males.

In fact Krogan are also widely related to caricature.

I could pick your comment and target it to ME1.

Originally posted by barzai:

At the risk of piling on, I would add--outside the RPG-specific issues--that I found the exploration in MEA even more excruciating than the exploration in ME1...and that was--as I assume we agree--not fun.

the problem is ME1 is worse;
- The junk gameplay in wild planets.
- The numerous lame empty repetitive dungeons,
- The lack of progressing tricks when at least MEA has some.

Both could be overall bad on that but ME1 is still worse.

Originally posted by barzai:

As to the MEA crafting...meh. Not a huge fan, and comparing it to ME1 in that regard is a bit odd since "crafting" as I understand the term--harvesting resources in order to create better gear or enhance existing gear--does not figure at all in ME1.

The only thing that even resembles "crafting" in ME1 is the possibility of add-ons to your existing gear. To me that is not crafting and I doubt many who played the original game at the time it was released would disagree since at that time crafting had not become an integral element of RPG games.

The only thing that even resembles "crafting" in ME1 is the possibility of add-ons to your existing gear.

Yes, the crafting in ME1 is all the upgrades, very basic but it's here, no choice but it's here. That you ignore it in MEA is just you, not the game reality.

Your time quote is right, the content is still here for both, and myself I don't give any credit to ME1 for being older.

Originally posted by barzai:

The only RPG with crafting I play a lot is DAI, and it took me a good long time to warm up to it. Now--after several thousand hours of play--I'm used to it and spend a fair amount of time engaged in it. But having played MEA after DAI, I honestly didn't find MEA crafting to be an improvement over DAI.

DAI choose make a more complex crafting, ME1 weapon crafting choose allows make deep change and create new weapons, it's just more impressive and directly fun but for sure it's no DAi complex crafting.

Originally posted by barzai:

As a final point, I played MEA through to completion exactly once, and I gave up partway through my second. ME1, OTOH...several hundred hours in the original plus (I presume) about a third of the roughly 800 hours I've put in on MELE. So you appreciate I'm not just sniping from the sidelines...I'm basing the comparison on actual hands-on experience.

You didn't tried replay MEA with a more positive spirit.

On another way for me, ME1 first play, not even at release, ended in trash the game and ignore the series I started play only when ME3 was coming then played ME2 and after ME3, and then tried again ME1 but failed again make a full play. Later I played all 3 in parallel, but didn't fully finished ME1 but was close this time, plus replayed or partially replayed them once or twice. And it's with MEL I finally did a ME1 full play, but at least it's recent not like your only MEA play.