About my dual dagger rogue in nightmare

[Kayderim]

I just barely managed to get through the mission before going to skyhold (i was around level 11), i ran out of potions and had to cheese the hell out of the fight with verric, and in some fights, it feels my rogue really isn't doing much, he's pretty much always the first one to die in fights and constantly have to use potions that other people also need.

Now that i got to skyhold, i'm going to go for sidequests (i'm aiming for 100%), so i wanted to know if the dagger rogue specialization are any good for this difficulty, or if i'm just better off going full archer and stop stealing the potions from the tank.

Also, i just tried 2 handed warrios and they seem pretty slow, are they better DPS compared to another mage or archer?

[barzai]

There's stuff you can do to mitigate the fragility of your stabby-rogue. Stealth is a big deal for those guys. Another very powerful thing is Poisoned Weapons with the Leeching Poison upgrade.

Twanger-rogues I find a bit...boring. It's not like they have a lot of options: buff, twang-twang-twang, rebuff, ... not the most exciting way to spend your combat IMHO. But they're certainly a safe choice, since the enemies don't do a great job attacking rangestrikers in general if they stay back from the furball.

Incidentally you should set each of your companions to "Follow" themselves rather than the "Controlled Character." That way you won't have to deal with the frustration of watching your rangestrikers rushing into the melee and constantly falling over.

I find 2H-warriors kinda OP myself. Whirlwind is a big deal for them. Also, Charging Bull is a good power, especially since you start with one of the Guard-generating powers that lead to it. And if you take a look at their weapons, they mostly blow the doors off the 1H weps.

One approach you may want to consider which i have largely adopted: put all your skill points in the non-specialty trees: Battlemaster and Vanguard for warriors, and Sabotage and Subterfuge for rogues. That way you needn't be too concerned about which path to go down, since you can switch between 1H/2H and Stabby/Twanger between fights with no wasted skill points.

I like to build up Cass through the Battlemaster tree until I get her to Horn of Valor with the Fortifying Blast upgrade. When everyone in your party is getting Guard each time they hit...well, it's pretty OP. "I...AM...IN-VEEN-CIBLE!!!" :-)

[Kayderim]

Originally posted by barzai:

There's stuff you can do to mitigate the fragility of your stabby-rogue. Stealth is a big deal for those guys. Another very powerful thing is Poisoned Weapons with the Leeching Poison upgrade.

Twanger-rogues I find a bit...boring. It's not like they have a lot of options: buff, twang-twang-twang, rebuff, ... not the most exciting way to spend your combat IMHO. But they're certainly a safe choice, since the enemies don't do a great job attacking rangestrikers in general if they stay back from the furball.

Incidentally you should set each of your companions to "Follow" themselves rather than the "Controlled Character." That way you won't have to deal with the frustration of watching your rangestrikers rushing into the melee and constantly falling over.

I find 2H-warriors kinda OP myself. Whirlwind is a big deal for them. Also, Charging Bull is a good power, especially since you start with one of the Guard-generating powers that lead to it. And if you take a look at their weapons, they mostly blow the doors off the 1H weps.

One approach you may want to consider which i have largely adopted: put all your skill points in the non-specialty trees: Battlemaster and Vanguard for warriors, and Sabotage and Subterfuge for rogues. That way you needn't be too concerned about which path to go down, since you can switch between 1H/2H and Stabby/Twanger between fights with no wasted skill points.

I like to build up Cass through the Battlemaster tree until I get her to Horn of Valor with the Fortifying Blast upgrade. When everyone in your party is getting Guard each time they hit...well, it's pretty OP. "I...AM...IN-VEEN-CIBLE!!!" :-)

I tried cole with the assassion skill tree and he wasn't able to kill a single enemy before dying, i think it may be my daggers that are too weak, but they don't hit nearly as hard as Verric does with crossbow skills.

I ended up reseting my rogue to bow and yeah, i didn't died anymore, and i'm able to get at least 2 enemies before they even notice me, i'll may try the melee rogue after some levels and when i get better daggers and a specialization.

And about the warrior, i was using him on the A.I, and with a very underpowered weapon, now i crafted the best armor and find an unique 2 handed hammer for him, and he's doing a pretty decent amount of damage / CC while being kinda hard to kill, i don't know if he will be tanky enough being the only melee there, i may have to switch Verric out with Cassandra with full tank build.

Blackwall just got his champion skill tree, do you think he can hold his own as the only melee with that skil tree?

[barzai]

Blackwall is one mean mo-fo with his specialization skill tree, no doubt about it. And if you play with two warriors you can have one who is the buffing warrior--as I mentioned, Horn of Valor with the "everyone gets Guard" improvement--and one who runs wild with Bull Charge and maybe Combat Roll. I'd make Cass the buff one obviously, it's much more fun being the guy (or gal) charging around the map bowling people over! :-)

I find the only real weakness with warriors is the lack of a rangestrike, and those two powers largely compensate. Bull Charge is like the Vanguard's Biotic Charge in Mass Effect, if you play that.

All the specialization trees are pretty powerful: wait until you see Sera's Tempest skill tree! :-) Of the three rogue specializations, i think that one's the best...but it takes practice to use it effectively.

And like you I found Cole's Assassin specialization to be the weakest of the rogue specializations. But that may just mean I don't understand it yet.

[Kayderim]

Originally posted by barzai:

Blackwall is one mean mo-fo with his specialization skill tree, no doubt about it. And if you play with two warriors you can have one who is the buffing warrior--as I mentioned, Horn of Valor with the "everyone gets Guard" improvement--and one who runs wild with Bull Charge and maybe Combat Roll. I'd make Cass the buff one obviously, it's much more fun being the guy (or gal) charging around the map bowling people over! :-)

I find the only real weakness with warriors is the lack of a rangestrike, and those two powers largely compensate. Bull Charge is like the Vanguard's Biotic Charge in Mass Effect, if you play that.

All the specialization trees are pretty powerful: wait until you see Sera's Tempest skill tree! :-) Of the three rogue specializations, i think that one's the best...but it takes practice to use it effectively.

And like you I found Cole's Assassin specialization to be the weakest of the rogue specializations. But that may just mean I don't understand it yet.

Yeah, i guess i'll go for dual warriors, i really liked blackwall, but i don't think he is holding the frontline by his own with a 2-handed weapon, so i'll replace Verric with cassandra, so me and the mage won't have to run around this much, i only now learned about the guard mechanic, so i think 2 warriors is the way to go in this dif, especially since i'm lazy and want the A.I play by themselves

[iza]

Originally posted by Kayderim:

Originally posted by barzai:

There's stuff you can do to mitigate the fragility of your stabby-rogue. Stealth is a big deal for those guys. Another very powerful thing is Poisoned Weapons with the Leeching Poison upgrade.

Twanger-rogues I find a bit...boring. It's not like they have a lot of options: buff, twang-twang-twang, rebuff, ... not the most exciting way to spend your combat IMHO. But they're certainly a safe choice, since the enemies don't do a great job attacking rangestrikers in general if they stay back from the furball.

Incidentally you should set each of your companions to "Follow" themselves rather than the "Controlled Character." That way you won't have to deal with the frustration of watching your rangestrikers rushing into the melee and constantly falling over.

I find 2H-warriors kinda OP myself. Whirlwind is a big deal for them. Also, Charging Bull is a good power, especially since you start with one of the Guard-generating powers that lead to it. And if you take a look at their weapons, they mostly blow the doors off the 1H weps.

One approach you may want to consider which i have largely adopted: put all your skill points in the non-specialty trees: Battlemaster and Vanguard for warriors, and Sabotage and Subterfuge for rogues. That way you needn't be too concerned about which path to go down, since you can switch between 1H/2H and Stabby/Twanger between fights with no wasted skill points.

I like to build up Cass through the Battlemaster tree until I get her to Horn of Valor with the Fortifying Blast upgrade. When everyone in your party is getting Guard each time they hit...well, it's pretty OP. "I...AM...IN-VEEN-CIBLE!!!" :-)

I tried cole with the assassion skill tree and he wasn't able to kill a single enemy before dying, i think it may be my daggers that are too weak, but they don't hit nearly as hard as Verric does with crossbow skills.

I ended up reseting my rogue to bow and yeah, i didn't died anymore, and i'm able to get at least 2 enemies before they even notice me, i'll may try the melee rogue after some levels and when i get better daggers and a specialization.

And about the warrior, i was using him on the A.I, and with a very underpowered weapon, now i crafted the best armor and find an unique 2 handed hammer for him, and he's doing a pretty decent amount of damage / CC while being kinda hard to kill, i don't know if he will be tanky enough being the only melee there, i may have to switch Verric out with Cassandra with full tank build.

Blackwall just got his champion skill tree, do you think he can hold his own as the only melee with that skil tree?

2H warriors you go Reaver (sub spec later on), skill through and just spam a button, lose HP, regenerate by pressing another button. Barrier is mostly up anyway and a decent tank build tanks any time. I also used the Sigil for 100% more HP, although even with 2000 HP the Iron Bull dies quickly (in A.I. actually with the cooldown so he doesn't hurt himself).

The most broken thing I've experienced here was the "Desperation?" skill from the Spirit tree resurrecting him, giving him 50% attack speed and 200% damage. Alongside with the Reaver build he can deal ~10000 a second for about 10 seconds, which lets be fair is enough for most fights on NM.

My Inq is a bow build and with some luck on crit I can one shot smaller enemies, which is nice, but compared to Reaver everything seems meaningless.

Originally posted by Kayderim:

, so i'll replace Verric with cassandra, so me and the mage won't have to run around this much, i only now learned about the guard mechanic, so i think 2 warriors is the way to go in this dif, especially since i'm lazy and want the A.I play by themselves

I'm wondering how you just learned about the Guard mechanic though, it should have been visible right with Cassandra in the tutorial part? Or do they just not explain anything about it?

[Kayderim]

Originally posted by iza:

Originally posted by Kayderim:

I tried cole with the assassion skill tree and he wasn't able to kill a single enemy before dying, i think it may be my daggers that are too weak, but they don't hit nearly as hard as Verric does with crossbow skills.

I ended up reseting my rogue to bow and yeah, i didn't died anymore, and i'm able to get at least 2 enemies before they even notice me, i'll may try the melee rogue after some levels and when i get better daggers and a specialization.

And about the warrior, i was using him on the A.I, and with a very underpowered weapon, now i crafted the best armor and find an unique 2 handed hammer for him, and he's doing a pretty decent amount of damage / CC while being kinda hard to kill, i don't know if he will be tanky enough being the only melee there, i may have to switch Verric out with Cassandra with full tank build.

Blackwall just got his champion skill tree, do you think he can hold his own as the only melee with that skil tree?

2H warriors you go Reaver (sub spec later on), skill through and just spam a button, lose HP, regenerate by pressing another button. Barrier is mostly up anyway and a decent tank build tanks any time. I also used the Sigil for 100% more HP, although even with 2000 HP the Iron Bull dies quickly (in A.I. actually with the cooldown so he doesn't hurt himself).

The most broken thing I've experienced here was the "Desperation?" skill from the Spirit tree resurrecting him, giving him 50% attack speed and 200% damage. Alongside with the Reaver build he can deal ~10000 a second for about 10 seconds, which lets be fair is enough for most fights on NM.

My Inq is a bow build and with some luck on crit I can one shot smaller enemies, which is nice, but compared to Reaver everything seems meaningless.

Originally posted by Kayderim:

, so i'll replace Verric with cassandra, so me and the mage won't have to run around this much, i only now learned about the guard mechanic, so i think 2 warriors is the way to go in this dif, especially since i'm lazy and want the A.I play by themselves

I'm wondering how you just learned about the Guard mechanic though, it should have been visible right with Cassandra in the tutorial part? Or do they just not explain anything about it?

I don't remember much of the tutorial already, i was just trying to climb up every cliff i find and get as much iron / herbs i could

[iza]

Originally posted by Kayderim:

Originally posted by iza:

2H warriors you go Reaver (sub spec later on), skill through and just spam a button, lose HP, regenerate by pressing another button. Barrier is mostly up anyway and a decent tank build tanks any time. I also used the Sigil for 100% more HP, although even with 2000 HP the Iron Bull dies quickly (in A.I. actually with the cooldown so he doesn't hurt himself).

The most broken thing I've experienced here was the "Desperation?" skill from the Spirit tree resurrecting him, giving him 50% attack speed and 200% damage. Alongside with the Reaver build he can deal ~10000 a second for about 10 seconds, which lets be fair is enough for most fights on NM.

My Inq is a bow build and with some luck on crit I can one shot smaller enemies, which is nice, but compared to Reaver everything seems meaningless.


I'm wondering how you just learned about the Guard mechanic though, it should have been visible right with Cassandra in the tutorial part? Or do they just not explain anything about it?

I don't remember much of the tutorial already, i was just trying to climb up every cliff i find and get as much iron / herbs i could

Later on it doesn't matter that much (because you get STACKS of these and a better tier), but I gotta admit it is good to have some of these in the start, Elfroot giving you a health upgrade and iron to craft 1-2 cool things.

Understandable though, while the area was nice it felt lacking a little and I did the same.