You cannot play this game with a trackball mouse

[BionicDance]

Just what the title says: you have two choices... you can try to play on "Experienced", in which case, you have to do some mouse maneuvers just to interact with the world which are genuinely difficult to do with a trackball...
... or you can play with simpler controls that are actually doable with a trackball, but the camera gets completely janky, not following behind the main character.

I want to return it; this is no fun.

[Piano man]

People still use trackball mice? Never seen the advantage of them. Why did you go for a trackball mouse instead of normal one? Is there a purpose for them that the normal mouse cannot fulfill?

If you use a real mouse, it can be a lot of fun.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Piano man:

People still use trackball mice? Never seen the advantage of them. Why did you go for a trackball mouse instead of normal one? Is there a purpose for them that the normal mouse cannot fulfill?

If you use a real mouse, it can be a lot of fun.

Y'ever have a time when you really need to move your view left... but there'z a darn keyboard in the way? S'now you have to move your hand allllllllll the way to the other side of the desk (without knocking over your water bottle or your Mountain Dew) and hope to heck you've got enough running room between the edge and the keyboard to look where you're tryin'a go...?

I have.

With a trackball, I can just flick my thumb. Easy-peasey.

[Piano man]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Y'ever have a time when you really need to move your view left... but there'z a darn keyboard in the way? S'now you have to move your hand allllllllll the way to the other side of the desk (without knocking over your water bottle or your Mountain Dew) and hope to heck you've got enough running room between the edge and the keyboard to look where you're tryin'a go...?

I have.

With a trackball, I can just flick my thumb. Easy-peasey.

Big mouse mat, 6x3 foot Pine computer desk, high mouse sensitivity...

Nope... never had that problem in my life.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Piano man:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Y'ever have a time when you really need to move your view left... but there'z a darn keyboard in the way? S'now you have to move your hand allllllllll the way to the other side of the desk (without knocking over your water bottle or your Mountain Dew) and hope to heck you've got enough running room between the edge and the keyboard to look where you're tryin'a go...?

I have.

With a trackball, I can just flick my thumb. Easy-peasey.

Big mouse mat, 6x3 foot Pine computer desk, high mouse sensitivity...

Nope... never had that problem in my life.

So... in order to play games that were badly ported from console to PC with Quick Time Events that require motions which are quite awkward on PC gear, it requires purchasing a large desk and a big mousepad, coupled with setting your mouse sensitivity so high that, sure, you can look around...but try aiming that sniper rifle with any accuracy...?

No.
But on the other hand, no. (It's just over here now.)

I'll just go play a game that is actually designed to work with any control setup, not just one.

[Piano man]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

So... in order to play games that were badly ported from console to PC with Quick Time Events that require motions which are quite awkward on PC gear, it requires purchasing a large desk and a big mousepad, coupled with setting your mouse sensitivity so high that, sure, you can look around...but try aiming that sniper rifle with any accuracy...?

Hey, you were the one complaining about the game. Clearly the developers thought "lets make this game playable for most of the PC audience out there. Trackballs aren't normally great for a lot of fast paced shooters (have you tried playing Doom Eternal with one?)

Also, I'm a piano player and I have a Laser mouse so I am very good with very fine motor skills and movement. I can shoot with precision very easily despite the high mouse sensitivity.

[duodenum]

welcome to the 21st century

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Piano man:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

So... in order to play games that were badly ported from console to PC with Quick Time Events that require motions which are quite awkward on PC gear, it requires purchasing a large desk and a big mousepad, coupled with setting your mouse sensitivity so high that, sure, you can look around...but try aiming that sniper rifle with any accuracy...?

Hey, you were the one complaining about the game. Clearly the developers thought "lets make this game playable for most of the PC audience out there.

Which is kinda stupid, don'cha think?
I mean, I did just return their game on Steam. That's lost revenue no matter how you slice it.

Trackballs aren't normally great for a lot of fast paced shooters

You're wrong. And that's not for you to decide.

(have you tried playing Doom Eternal with one?)

Nope. I haven't played Doom Eternal at all, so that'd a bad example.

I've played the crap out of action games with a trackball, however; they're my preferred go-to for FPS games (which I'm assuming Doom Eternal must be... since it's Doom. But I haven't touched the series since Doom 2; not really my thing).

I can tell you that trackballs are actually better than a mouse, and a million times better than a controller.
We've already discussed the necessary space issue with a mouse (if you don't have an aircraft carrier sized desk); the problem with controllers is that aiming works completely different than mouse or trackball, and those other two options make life more difficult.

See, with a controller, you're aiming by manipulating the direction and speed of your crosshairs; with a mouse or a trackball, you're moving your crosshairs a certain amount in that direction, so you're far less likely to overshoot your destination, and it's easier to correct if you do.
By comparison, controllers are just really, really awkward.

Trackballs are ideal because they're stationary--unlike a mouse--and because accuracy is easier to achieve compared to a controller.

But, sure...let's hear you again say that they "aren't normally great for a lot of fast paced shooters"

Also, I'm a piano player and I have a Laser mouse so I am very good with very fine motor skills and movement. I can shoot with precision very easily despite the high mouse sensitivity.

Good for you.

But there are multiple ways to play games, and excluding one based on an uninformed and biased opinion is maybe not the way to go, here.

[Piano man]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Nope. I haven't played Doom Eternal at all, so that'd a bad example.

I've played the crap out of action games with a trackball, however; they're my preferred go-to for FPS games (which I'm assuming Doom Eternal must be... since it's Doom. But I haven't touched the series since Doom 2; not really my thing).

I can tell you that trackballs are actually better than a mouse, and a million times better than a controller.
We've already discussed the necessary space issue with a mouse (if you don't have an aircraft carrier sized desk); the problem with controllers is that aiming works completely different than mouse or trackball, and those other two options make life more difficult.

See, with a controller, you're aiming by manipulating the direction and speed of your crosshairs; with a mouse or a trackball, you're moving your crosshairs a certain amount in that direction, so you're far less likely to overshoot your destination, and it's easier to correct if you do.
By comparison, controllers are just really, really awkward.

Trackballs are ideal because they're stationary--unlike a mouse--and because accuracy is easier to achieve compared to a controller.

But, sure...let's hear you again say that they "aren't normally great for a lot of fast paced shooters"

Also, I'm a piano player and I have a Laser mouse so I am very good with very fine motor skills and movement. I can shoot with precision very easily despite the high mouse sensitivity.

Good for you.

But there are multiple ways to play games, and excluding one based on an uninformed and biased opinion is maybe not the way to go, here.

I don't remember the last time I EVER head anyone complain about games not being optimised or doable with a trackball mouse... and I've been playing games for 30 years, and following social media and forums for a large amount of those years.

Either many people can use them and have used them for this game - and therefore you not being able to play it is a you problem; or they're not as popular as you think. Even a lot of the Esports players use a conventional mouse.

Either way - I've played the game, and if you've returned it, you're missed out on a great game.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Trackballs are ideal because they're stationary

No... they're different sure, but saying they're ideal somehow infers that they're better. They're not... otherwise they would be all the rage.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

and a million times better than a controller.

Okay - for once... some common ground.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Piano man:

I don't remember the last time I EVER head anyone complain about games not being optimised or doable with a trackball mouse...

And...? Your lack of experience with an issue doesn't make it a non-issue.
Further, maybe the reason you don't hear people complaining is because it's rarely an issue.

The control scheme in this game is weird; to do some of the simplest actions, they expect you to swirl your input device around in quarter-circles like it's a street fighting game! That's weird, you have to admit.

and I've been playing games for 30 years

And I've been playing games for at least ten more years than that.
Plus, again, your personal experiences are not necessarily representative of the larger gaming zeitgeist.

Either many people can use them and have used them for this game - and therefore you not being able to play it is a you problem; or they're not as popular as you think.

Or--and hear me out, here--the problem is this game in particular.
Cuz I don't normally have this problem with games. Maybe that's why you don't hear people complaining about it: cuz it's this game.

Even a lot of the Esports players use a conventional mouse.

Argumentum ad populum logical fallacy, mate.

Either way - I've played the game, and if you've returned it, you're missed out on a great game.

Not my fault; the developers should have taken this into account.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Trackballs are ideal because they're stationary

No... they're different sure, but saying they're ideal somehow infers that they're better.

Cuz they are. And I laid out all of the reasons why they are.
Again, it's not my fault others haven't caught up.

They're not... otherwise they would be all the rage.

Once again, argumentum ad populum, and you sure are expending a lot of effort to rip down trackballs.

Why so invested?

Originally posted by BionicDance:

and a million times better than a controller.

Okay - for once... some common ground. [/quote][/quote]

Well, I guess that's something.

[HY417 / ar558]

You can also play with an XBox Controller.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by HY417 / ar558:

You can also play with an XBox Controller.

Since I don't like controllers--and I already articulated why above--this isn't helpful.

[BionicDance]

And, frankly, given the response to my video about it on YouTube, I'm not alone in feeling like this.
One person just outright said that the game is more fun to watch than to play.

I stand by my criticism 100%; when the game's interface is a bigger challenge than the actual game itself, that's a poorly-designed game.

[Piano man]

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And, frankly, given the response to my video about it on YouTube, I'm not alone in feeling like this.

You may not be alone, but the people who enjoyed this game far exceed those that did not.
Just because a few people agree with you doesn't mean you are right - it's your opinion, but not the opinion of the majority.

There are people out there that agree the moon is made of swiss cheese and that there's a lizard army that hide as human beings living among us.

Doesn't make them right...

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Originally posted by Piano man:

No... they're different sure, but saying they're ideal somehow infers that they're better.

Cuz they are. And I laid out all of the reasons why they are.
Again, it's not my fault others haven't caught up.

No... you laid out reasons why there are different - not better and there's nothing to 'catch up with'. I tried them a while back and used them for about 6 months before ditching it in the bin and buying a proper laser mouse.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Originally posted by Piano man:

They're not... otherwise they would be all the rage.

Once again, argumentum ad populum, and you sure are expending a lot of effort to rip down trackballs.

And you're expending a lot of effort to try and promote them. If the Hundreds of millions of gamers across the planet had come to the same realisation as you - they would be popular as hell...

...but they're not. And don't give us that latin BS. Again... if people had thought that trackball mice were much better for gaming - most of us would have one. The reason they use conventional mice is because they're a lot better for gaming. They've been around for over 20 years so it's not like people haven't heard of them and just not tried them.

[BionicDance]

Originally posted by Piano man:

Originally posted by BionicDance:

And, frankly, given the response to my video about it on YouTube, I'm not alone in feeling like this.

You may not be alone, but the people who enjoyed this game far exceed those that did not.

And?

What's that got to do with anything?

Or... is it that you think a lot of people enjoying something makes a problem... no longer a problem? Is that it? Really?
How bizarre.

Just because a few people agree with you doesn't mean you are right - it's your opinion, but not the opinion of the majority.

You don't even see the irony in that statement, do you.

I tried them a while back and used them for about 6 months before ditching it in the bin and buying a proper laser mouse.

That doesn't sound like it's the fault of the trackball, mate.

Originally posted by BionicDance:

Once again, argumentum ad populum, and you sure are expending a lot of effort to rip down trackballs.

And you're expending a lot of effort to try and promote them.

We wouldn't even be talking about it if you hadn't tried to act as if your own preferences for controls weren't axiomatically correct, ya know.
You had just as much opportunity as everybody else to just let it go as opinion... but you felt the need to not merely weigh in, but to turn it into a contest of wills.

Some people like trackballs as their preferred controller.
You can learn to be at peace with that... or you can try to convert the entire world to your opinion (which sounds exhausting, but you do you).

If the Hundreds of millions of gamers across the planet had come to the same realisation as you - they would be popular as hell...

Why are you so stuck on popularity as the determining factor for whether a control device is worth being considered for inclusion in a game's options?

...but they're not. And don't give us that latin BS.

Attention everybody! Logical fallacies referenced by people in debates are now "Latin BS"! And that is clearly enough to discard criticism of someone's fallacious argument!

So it has been decreed!

[EricHVela]

That's like complaining that the game can't be played with a touch screen.

I use touch screens all the time at home and at work, but I never expect to play games with one, even pinball. (I doubt I'd use a touch screen to play mobile games on PC if I played any mobile games on PC.) I find that touch screens are easier for me than a mouse after over a decade of primarily using touch screens for everything except gaming.

There are no real "good" PC ports of games that were 100% designed for a console with no intention of ever coming to PC. Sony allowing ports of PS-exclusive games to Windows used to be a rare occurrence for less-popular games, and developers didn't really expect Sony to change that posture.

You'll need to use a controller for the closest intended experience as designed.

Blame Sony on this one.