Alice shouldn't be an android

[YOUNG KARAKAN]

idk if it's just me but i feel like all her attachment to kara was only because she was programmed to do so, and it basically proves that androids can only live with androids would be much cooler if alice was a real human

also why hasn't she told kara about that? she could avoid all these situations with her being cold, since she couldve just turned that off lol, kinda felt like they added the android plot twist while finishing the game and now many things dont make sense

[Species1571]

Kara already knew and chose to continue as if she didn't, but yes a lot of the game doesn't make sense after the twist reveal.

[YOUNG KARAKAN]

Publicado originalmente por Species1571:

Kara already knew and chose to continue as if she didn't, but yes a lot of the game doesn't make sense after the twist reveal.

i also dont like the fact that she decided to ignore it, i mean i know she wanted to be a caring mother but it literally made everything more difficult for her

[SotiCoto]

Publicado originalmente por YOUNG KARAKAN:

idk if it's just me but i feel like all her attachment to kara was only because she was programmed to do so,

You're only saying that because you were programmed to do so.

also why hasn't she told kara about that? she could avoid all these situations with her being cold, since she couldve just turned that off lol, kinda felt like they added the android plot twist while finishing the game and now many things dont make sense

Alice's complaints about the cold are legitimate though. In fact they're probably THE most legitimate complaints she makes. And while she can have her ability to feel the cold switched off, it doesn't prevent her biocomponents being damaged due to the cold.
Not sure if you've got all the endings... but if you get the boat escape scene with Kara & Alice, not only can you check the water and get undeniable confirmation in dialogue that cold temperatures can cause biocomponent shut-down... BUT if Alice ends up in the water at any point, she dies. Kara can survive the river IF she isn't injured... but will also freeze to death if she got shot at all.

... Unfortunately this is completely undermined by the Jerrys... who apparently are immune to the cold with no explanation. But then the Pirate's Cove chapter is full of utterly weird nonsense anyway.... and this IS a David Cage game. Consistency is optional.

Anyway, I found Alice's moralising earlier on MUCH more annoying. "Don't steal clothes, Kara! That's bad!" and "Don't rob a shop at gun-point, Kara! That's bad!" ... So in response, after getting everything required to stay in the Motel, I forced Alice to sleep in the abandoned car anyway.


.... Anyway... last time I saw this come up, apparently the reason given why Alice turned out to be a droid was because seeing a human child suffer physical and emotional abuse, as well as possibly dying, would not be socially acceptable in real life... ... but it is totally okay if she isn't a real human... no matter how much that COMPLETELY violates the entire moral of the game.

[arsjac]

Publicado originalmente por SotiCoto:

I found Alice's moralising earlier on MUCH more annoying. "Don't steal clothes, Kara! That's bad!" and "Don't rob a shop at gun-point, Kara! That's bad!" ... So in response, after getting everything required to stay in the Motel, I forced Alice to sleep in the abandoned car anyway.

Oh, yeah.

I was actually stumped when she started doing that. My first reaction was actually... I wanted to beat her up! I am very sorry for feeling that way, and child abuse is never OK etc. etc.

But... instead of being forever grateful to your life-saver that she does what needs to be done, you're pulling these stunts? In DBH's "Sadism City", the cashier could shoot Kara's head off unprovoked and the police would probably laugh about it while mutilating her remains afterwards, and you dare to say hur dur, stealing is wrong, Kara!?! And just a few meters away from the store to boot?!

I wish Kara would be able to respond with something like "so is kidnapping, maybe it's time to bring you back to dad".

One would think living with someone like Todd would teach her some facts of life, but she behaves like some spoiled daddy's princess.

In fact, Alice behaving that way made me rethink Todd. As horrific as it sounds (I know!), maybe he had his reasons...

I can totally see Alice pulling the same ♥♥♥♥ with him all the time. Like Todd honestly trying to find a job, money is running out, he does some shady, but ultimately harmless deal that saves them both from homelessness for yet another month and she thanks him with a "but daddy, selling drugs is wrong!"-rant. Passive-aggressively driving him more and more into madness.

She is a total liability. I wouldn't be surprised if she would spill the beans sooner or later on Kara in Canada, "but Kara, lying is wrong!"

Also, Alice's affection towards Kara seemed always fake to me. Not in a "simulated android love"-way, but the very opposite of it: A very cunning child manipulating someone too benign for his or her own good.

Alice knows with certainty that Kara thinks that she's a human, because Kara told that in front of Alice to Zlatko. So, after witnessing how Kara again saved her life in the mansion (Kara could have easily escaped the house without her), what does she do just a few hours later? Playing needy in the car, again.

Letting Kara run into potentially hazardous situations searching for shelter in that creepy amusement park, again, even though it's clear that Kara and Luther (and Alice, if she would say the truth) could reach Rose by foot, because Luther says it.

Not once does she even try to alleviate Kara's hardships, which are almost always caused directly by Alice in some form. She plays that to the very end, causing nothing but trouble for her adoptive mother.

The most common explanation of her behavior seems to be that she's afraid that Kara wouldn't love her anymore after finding out the truth, but exactly this sounds very calculated. If she would truly love her with all her heart, she would trust her (how many life-savings do you need for that?), without having potential consequences in mind.

But Alice's well-being seems to be priority number one for Alice - is that true love?

[YOUNG KARAKAN]

Publicado originalmente por arsjac:

Publicado originalmente por SotiCoto:

I found Alice's moralising earlier on MUCH more annoying. "Don't steal clothes, Kara! That's bad!" and "Don't rob a shop at gun-point, Kara! That's bad!" ... So in response, after getting everything required to stay in the Motel, I forced Alice to sleep in the abandoned car anyway.

Oh, yeah.

I was actually stumped when she started doing that. My first reaction was actually... I wanted to beat her up! I am very sorry for feeling that way, and child abuse is never OK etc. etc.

But... instead of being forever grateful to your life-saver that she takes such risks for you, you're pulling these stunts? In DBH's "sadism city", the cashier could shoot Kara's head off unprovoked and the police would probably laugh about it while mutilating her remains afterwards, and you dare to say hur dur, stealing is wrong, Kara!?!

I wish Kara would be able to respond with something like "so is kidnapping, maybe it's time to bring you back to dad".

One would think living with someone like Todd would teach her some facts of life, but she behaves like some spoiled daddy's princess.

In fact, Alice behaving that way made me rethink Todd. As horrific as it sounds (I know!), maybe he had his reasons...

I can totally see Alice pulling the same ♥♥♥♥ with him all the time. Like Todd honestly trying to find a job, money is running out, he does some shady, but ultimately harmless deal that saves them from homelessness for yet another month and she thanks him with a "but daddy, selling drugs is wrong!" rant. Passive-aggressively driving him more and more into madness.

She is a total liability. I wouldn't be surprised if she would spill the beans sooner or later on Kara in Canada, "but Kara, lying is wrong!"

After all, their ordeal takes only a few days. People forget fast. Within a few months she could be easily back to her usual attitude.

Also, Alice's affection towards Kara seemed always fake to me. Not in a "simulated android love"-way, but the very opposite of it: A very cunning child manipulating someone too benign for their own good.

Alice knows with certainty that Kara thinks that she's a human, because Kara told that in front of Alice to Zlatko. So, after witnessing how Kara again saved her life in the mansion (Kara could have easily escaped the house without her), what does she do just a few hours later? Playing needy in the car, again.

Letting Kara run into potentially hazardous situations searching for shelter in that creepy amusement park, again, even though it's clear that Kara and Luther (and Alice, if she would say the truth) could reach Rose by foot, because Luther says it.

Not once does she even try to alleviate Kara's hardships, which are almost always caused directly by Alice in some form. She plays that to the very end causing nothing but trouble for her surrogate mother.

The most common explanation of her behavior seems to be that she's afraid that Kara wouldn't love her anymore after finding out the truth, but exactly this sounds very calculated. If she would truly love her with all her heart, she would trust her (how many live-savings do you need for that?), not even thinking about potential consequences.

But Alice's well-being seems to be priority number one for Alice - is that true love?

it annoyed me just as much how easily the relationship with alice goes downhill. Kara won't open the ship's door to a deviant because there's a soldier behind him who's about to kill her AND ALICE? Relationship decreased. Kara steals the clothes so that she AND ALICE are not recognized and killed? relationship decreased. Kara is mad at Alice for lying to her all the time and making her life so much more difficult like a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ parasite? RELATIONSHIP DECREASED. this kid pissed me off so much throughout the game, to the point that I ran away as Kara to the landfill without her xD

[arsjac]

Publicado originalmente por YOUNG KARAKAN:

Kara won't open the ship's door to a deviant because there's a soldier behind him who's about to kill her AND ALICE? Relationship decreased.

Ugh, that Alice-meter was something else. Yes.

I found it so much out there, that I couldn't even find the right words to rant about it in my mega-thread.

That meter is truly the product of people who might have read about hardships but didn't experience any.

[CrumbleCat]

Is there a good reason your thread title has a massive end-game spoiler? I didn't know, and I'm playing the game right now. Thanks for spoiling, I guess.

[YOUNG KARAKAN]

Publicado originalmente por CrumbleCat:

Is there a good reason your thread title has a massive end-game spoiler? I didn't know, and I'm playing the game right now. Thanks for spoiling, I guess.

oh, im really sorry if i spoiled you, but i dont know how else i could name this thread without any spoilers. i even checked if theres a special ''spoiler/story'' section to post there, but sadly there isnt :(

[CrumbleCat]

I dunno it could be called "Talking about Alice *spoilers*". But it's whatevsssssss. I forgive you for your crime.

[まりさ]

Publicado originalmente por CrumbleCat:

I dunno it could be called "Talking about Alice *spoilers*". :special: But it's whatevsssssss. I forgive you for your crime.

Agreeing with this. It's better to rename thread title.

[Zadkiel]

Revealing that Alice is an android is more about the player than Alice and Kara. The creators are breaking the 5th wall here, testing/questioning whether the player, after everything he has been through with the characters up to this point, sees androids as living beings, capable of love and equal to humans. And the player is tested/questioned again in the end by Chloe, when she asks for freedom. Has the player learnt anything from this complex journey?

[galette des rois]

Publicado originalmente por SotiCoto:

I found Alice's moralising earlier on MUCH more annoying. "Don't steal clothes, Kara! That's bad!" and "Don't rob a shop at gun-point, Kara! That's bad!"

I actually found this part quite realistic. Young kids are still actively engaged in trying to make sense of the world, and it often translates into them having stark black-and-white representations of social rules, which would include morals. They deal in absolutes more than many adults. As a small example, my kid freaks out if I’m at all over the speed limit, and there’s no explaining to him that I’m merely following the flow of traffic and that it’s not great to be under the speed limit when everyone else around you is five over.

I do agree that making Alice an android is a dumb move, both in terms of plot consistency and character development.

[HoboCop]

It's a twist for its own sake that ignores huge amount of plot contravences. A perfectly normal staple of QD games.

[Rovium]

Publicado originalmente por YOUNG KARAKAN:

idk if it's just me but i feel like all her attachment to kara was only because she was programmed to do so, and it basically proves that androids can only live with androids would be much cooler if alice was a real human

also why hasn't she told kara about that? she could avoid all these situations with her being cold, since she couldve just turned that off lol, kinda felt like they added the android plot twist while finishing the game and now many things dont make sense

I totally agree with you, I too would have liked a story in which Kara would have mothered a little girl and not an android, I didn't find the plot forced but the question I'm asking myself is: would Kara have done all those things even if Alice had been human?

[Niruoy-Shell]

i never continued the game, during the scene with the father before leaving with her, i flipped IRL, i never felt so much rage and anger and will to fight for someone so hard.

I'm usually not immersed in a game and this one made me feel such strong feeling that it really destabilized me.

I killed the father to "save" the girl ... and i think i stooped soon after the scene in the robot graveyard

I've always wanted to play that game again when i would be emotionally stronger because of how it made me feel the first time, reading this post now shatter everything... i'm actually glad i didn't had to experience the drop of this realization in game.