new budget is crazy

[0_Frozen_0]

now, if you want increase budget for 1 branch it costs 3, so its pretty much impossible without going deep indebt. Maybe going indebt is ok - i think condition for "black friday" event (or whatever it called when your stocks are collapsed because of huge debt) is softened. BUT - right after budget meeting you gonna proceed to tax meeting, and you cant do anything if you are indebt, how dahell i suppose to save some budget point for tax meeting? like how? ignore pretty much everything else just to be able to change tax system?

[Ravon[17]]

Publicado originalmente por 0_Frozen_0:

yea, i tried going deep indebt and its not ends well, event called "debt crisis" destroys your economy(any idea what exact number of debt triggers this?). so - you have to ignore most of your investments and especialy budget increase for branches(minus 3 for single branch is crazy)

I had the dept crisis trigger for me with -6, but I'm pretty sure it depends on the state of the economy. My economy took a giant $#&!, then it triggered. Also, I've had runs where it didn't trigger @ -7.

[Orchid]

Publicado originalmente por 0_Frozen_0:

yea, i tried going deep indebt and its not ends well, event called "debt crisis" destroys your economy(any idea what exact number of debt triggers this?). so - you have to ignore most of your investments and especialy budget increase for branches(minus 3 for single branch is crazy)

Debt is reported to you on only 2 or 3 occasions in meetings with Symon Holl. As I said earlier, debt is less related to your government budget, rather the result of many of your policies (justice and welfare besides economic). If you ally with Lespia and subsequently join the ATO, then your country's economy just skyrockets from there, while your budget then is only recovered through several taxation acts, never enjoying the fruits of joining ATO even though it boosts your national economy astronomically.

Is there nobody that can back my claims?

[Ravon[17]]

Publicado originalmente por Orchid:

Debt is reported to you on only 2 or 3 occasions in meetings with Symon Holl. As I said earlier, debt is less related to your government budget, rather the result of many of your policies (justice and welfare besides economic). If you ally with Lespia and subsequently join the ATO, then your country's economy just skyrockets from there, while your budget then is only recovered through several taxation acts, never enjoying the fruits of joining ATO even though it boosts your national economy astronomically.

Is there nobody that can back my claims?

To a certain extent you are right. However not truly accurate. I've triggered several different dept reports. Even if you have a recovered economy you can still have Gus tell you the dept is extremely out of hand. I forget the number but it was 500+ BSR

Think of it as limit checkpoints, if you have a high negative budget for long enough you will trigger x event. Budget matters.

[0_Frozen_0]

Publicado originalmente por Ravon17:

Publicado originalmente por Orchid:

Debt is reported to you on only 2 or 3 occasions in meetings with Symon Holl. As I said earlier, debt is less related to your government budget, rather the result of many of your policies (justice and welfare besides economic). If you ally with Lespia and subsequently join the ATO, then your country's economy just skyrockets from there, while your budget then is only recovered through several taxation acts, never enjoying the fruits of joining ATO even though it boosts your national economy astronomically.

Is there nobody that can back my claims?

To a certain extent you are right. However not truly accurate. I've triggered several different dept reports. Even if you have a recovered economy you can still have Gus tell you the dept is extremely out of hand. I forget the number but it was 500+ BSR

Think of it as limit checkpoints, if you have a high negative budget for long enough you will trigger x event. Budget matters.

seems like you are right. i just hit by "debt crisis" feature with just -3 budget, but economy was overall not good

[0_Frozen_0]

After several plays i admit that budget is manageable. BUT - problem is - you dont know beforehand about impact of your spendings, for example -
Turn 2 "Economic Relief plan" costs 2 but pretty much useless.
For 1st infrastructure project - it cost 3 at best, the safest option is Underhall, cuz its only company that can do this ontime regardless of worker rights bill
Tourism and Culture -1 - almost useless
GREEN -1 - almost useless
Gruni investment -1/-2 - seems useless
Central bank act -1 - seems useless
My biggest complain - you have limited options with negative budget on 2 features - Tax meeting and Decrees, and game have 0 hints on that, everything in the game says that is no point in saving money - "not spended money is just pile of paper". And when you proceed to Tax meeting and Decrees - game slaps you with - "you dont have enough budget for that" - means you need positive number in budget if you want have all option available, how i suppose to know that beforehand?

[Acount]

An other complaint I would have is that you play as the president, yet cannot set your own agenda. Like, what if I would like to initiate a trade deal with Lespia since the start ? Or use my power for making decree to implemente Far Trade commission as a first thing first ? I mean, you need multiple playtrough to game the game, but not because you understand the mechanics better, better you understand the timeline better and can choose to act in the correct sequence... but, from a narrative standpoint, nothing would prevent you from trying to developp your country first, have a ressource surplus, say, coal, and offer it in exchange for cheap steel with Agnolia for example.

[ANKH]

Publicado originalmente por 0_Frozen_0:

After several plays i admit that budget is manageable. BUT - problem is - you dont know beforehand about impact of your spendings, for example -
Turn 2 "Economic Relief plan" costs 2 but pretty much useless.
For 1st infrastructure project - it cost 3 at best, the safest option is Underhall, cuz its only company that can do this ontime regardless of worker rights bill
Tourism and Culture -1 - almost useless
GREEN -1 - almost useless
Gruni investment -1/-2 - seems useless
Central bank act -1 - seems useless
My biggest complain - you have limited options with negative budget on 2 features - Tax meeting and Decrees, and game have 0 hints on that, everything in the game says that is no point in saving money - "not spended money is just pile of paper". And when you proceed to Tax meeting and Decrees - game slaps you with - "you dont have enough budget for that" - means you need positive number in budget if you want have all option available, how i suppose to know that beforehand?

I'm confident we will get atleast one more patch that will rebalance the budget and economic impact of initiatives before Rizia

[RichardSG]

Agree. They should fix the budget issues

[iowaloha]

So if I'm understanding right, there's essentially no way to not crash the economy with a planned economy? Short of just not caring about human rights issues whatsoever? And I have to partner with the ATO, which is filled with countries, in the games own descriptions, loaded with subpar human rights? Instead of the CSP, which has countries largely described as good human rights? Am I getting that right?

[Ravon[17]]

Publicado originalmente por iowaloha:

So if I'm understanding right, there's essentially no way to not crash the economy with a planned economy? Short of just not caring about human rights issues whatsoever? And I have to partner with the ATO, which is filled with countries, in the games own descriptions, loaded with subpar human rights? Instead of the CSP, which has countries largely described as good human rights? Am I getting that right?

I haven't played much with the planned economy, but yeah 2.0 seems unforgiving for not privatizing. Before 2.0 many things would cost less or not at all, which I haven't seen in this patch.

[Acount]

Publicado originalmente por Ravon17:

Publicado originalmente por iowaloha:

So if I'm understanding right, there's essentially no way to not crash the economy with a planned economy? Short of just not caring about human rights issues whatsoever? And I have to partner with the ATO, which is filled with countries, in the games own descriptions, loaded with subpar human rights? Instead of the CSP, which has countries largely described as good human rights? Am I getting that right?

I haven't played much with the planned economy, but yeah 2.0 seems unforgiving for not privatizing. Before 2.0 many things would cost less or not at all, which I haven't seen in this patch.

Planned economy is very complicated to get around with. Basicaly, if you increase the budget of a government branch, you might have comitted fiscal suicide.

[jeff.oster03]

I was hoping the update would allow you to borrow money from one of the great powers, and you would simply have to make the payments on the debt. Having the debt be -1, -2, -3, etc doesn't make a ton of sense in terms of causing a crashing economy (unless we are printing money and causing hyperinflation? But that doesn't fit with the events). I like the idea of being able to schmooze to get loans approved with the wealthy powers or the big shot capitalists, and then have the choice of either paying them back or defaulting.

[Spanish Inquisition]

Publicado originalmente por 0_Frozen_0:

yea, i tried going deep indebt and its not ends well, event called "debt crisis" destroys your economy(any idea what exact number of debt triggers this?). so - you have to ignore most of your investments and especialy budget increase for branches(minus 3 for single branch is crazy)

The debt crisis definitely triggers at -7 budget, I think at -6 as well

[MoreEvilSquid]

I just completed a run with -5 at the end (re-elected after war victory). At one point I opted to take out IMF loans, prior to that it was at -7.

I invested in everything I could economy-wise, vetoed both the luxury tax and the alcohol tax, and also vetoed the worker's rights bill near the start. I did approve a bill that funded less fortunate children though for health/education.

I increased military and security, reduced education and kept healthcare the same (or possibly reduced that as well?).

For taxes, I cut large corporate taxes but had to balance that with an increase in small business taxes - it's really annoying and stupid we can't go into much debt for tax cuts, and it's also stupid these tax cut decisions occur right after big spending infrastructure meetings. If the tax cut meeting could be deferred a few months or a year, I would have easily been able to afford it.

It's IMO the most annoying part of the whole economy system in the game (and has been since release). With the runner up being budget decisions being for the entire term - but then every bill that comes across your desk requires a level of funding equivalent to doubling a whole major department's funding for four years...

I'm not sure if it would have triggered if I'd let the debt stay at -7 by not taking that loan.

The economy at that point was quite strong according to all indicators, except perhaps the new "economy indicator" which is worse than useless now.

I did have a number of turns in the early-mid game where the press would lambast me about the "debt issue" (even when it was only at -2 or -3).

[MoreEvilSquid]

Publicado originalmente por Ravon17:

Publicado originalmente por 0_Frozen_0:

yea, i tried going deep indebt and its not ends well, event called "debt crisis" destroys your economy(any idea what exact number of debt triggers this?). so - you have to ignore most of your investments and especialy budget increase for branches(minus 3 for single branch is crazy)

I had the dept crisis trigger for me with -6, but I'm pretty sure it depends on the state of the economy. My economy took a giant $#&!, then it triggered. Also, I've had runs where it didn't trigger @ -7.

I suspect it probably works the same sort of way it always has: i.e. going below a certain point won't immediately trigger it, but instead if you reach a certain checkpoint in a certain turn, it will check the value, and trigger it if it meets the conditions.

So it's technically possible to go far below the threshold, as long as you can somehow bring it back up above the threshold by the time the check for the debt-trigger comes around (the debt trigger that does nasty things that is, not the one that adjusts what Symon tells you).

I think they may have added more checks/turns to these checks perhaps?