Melee is...lukewarm?

[Asherogar]

I completed almost all currently available content, just need to clean up the left bottom part to get the last 3 achievements, but the game for the last few hours felt like a chore and I don't want to sour my experience with a game, better just come back after some patches. I did all the game from start to finish with 1H weapon + Shield and half-assed backup bow to deal with flying enemies. So I fought against every single enemy multiple times and in every possible situation.

Now I want to go into detail about every aspect of the game from the point of "pure melee" character with 1H weapon and shield.

1. Enemies are too tanky.

That's probably the most universal problem on every stage of the game and especially prevalent later on where you can't just bruteforce with overlevel and overwhelming stats. Interestingly, it's a result of several other problems and root of a bunch of others. Let's start with why the enemies are tanky:

I. Too much health.

That's the obvious one. Trash enemies are generally fine, they die in 3-4 hits if we count only HP, but elites are extremely obnoxious, but I will talk about each one later, because certain other mechanics and nuiances make them truly unbearable.

II. Block multiplies enemies tankiness.

If the trash mob, let's say vukhar, takes 4 hits to die, it will also take ~4 hits to break his block. So now he literally doubled his already big health bar and you need at least 8 hits to kill him. That's assuming a good build and up-to-date equipment. Doesn't sound that bad.

But the same applies to the elite shield guy too. He has truly massive HP bar, ~infinite poise bar and constantly blocks. Killing them is a massive chore and they drop nothing, they have a drop table of a trash fell enemy like a pikeman for some ungodly reason. I have every single +poise dmg from the skill tree I can get and the only reason why I sometimes manage to break their poise is because their HP pools is on par with bosses. And the elite with a sword is not much better. At least their poise bar is only ~half infinite.

Poise bars in general make no sense as they are now, trash mobs can block a few hits at most, but when they die to a few hits, those few wasted ones are very impactful on their general survivability. Elites are just insanely overtuned, their poise bar is so massive that you maybe break it when the enemy is already below 10% HP.

Either poise bars need to be filled with normal hits too, or they need to be massively cut down.

Now, what this tankiness results into:

III. Excessive wear on weapons.

I keep with me 2 weapons and even then I multiple times run in a situation where I simply run out of durability on both. And that's with me using backup bow against flying enemies.

Simply because enemies are too tanky and you need way too much hits to kill them, your weapons break too fast. I don't know if devs need to tweak weapon durability or just fixing bloated HP pulls will do the trick, but it is currently a problem.

My weapon has 300 durability, I killed 2 shield elites, no trash mobs, just 2 shield guys. My weapon lost ~50% durability. If every hits reduces it by 1, then I literally spend 150 hits to kill just 2 enemies. With top gear and endgame food and skill tree.

IV. Combat is too simplistic and repetetive.

Spam LMB and occasionaly hold RMB to block and get out of stunlock. All 1H weapons animations are identical, there's no special strikes or variation, different weapons have a functionality of a skin.

And general tankiness of mobs makes it much worse, because now you spend way too much time swinging at one enemy. In Valheim combat is not that much deeper, but enemies are much softer and and hit harder, so your actions whether offensive or defensive asre more impactful.

There needs to be either actual different weapons or maybe some actual skills and special strikes, instead of current garbage.

2. TOO. MANY. FLYING. ENEMIES.

Remember I whined about enemies being too tanky? Yeah, now they're flying too. By the time you reach desert, half of the enemy line-up decided to say "f you" to melee and ascended from this sinful ground.

Usually, devs make flying enemies pretty fragile, even in games where everyone can shoot the air, like Borderlands. But here for some reason everything with ability to fly also has a dump truck worth of HP. And you can't deal damage with your melee weapon to a flying enemy, unless there's some wonky hitbox clip.

Those flying enemies like fell mage are balanced around you having a full set of up-to-date armor, top tier bow, top tier arrows and a full skill tree, all boosting your damage. You have it, boosting your melee damage, which you can't deal to a flying enemy. You pull out your crappy bow and deal 1/3 of a damage that dedicated ranged DD character does.

There must be way to deal with it for melee character too. For example, make it so weakpoint shots do a microstun to an enemy and it falls to the ground. You still need to use your bow, but with well-placed shot you don't need to worry about boosting your ranged damage. Or let me spend my stamina and yank enemy to the ground with my hook.

Give. Me. Tools/Options. To work with.

3. Parry is meaningless.

Place a well-timed block and you will parry an enemy, dealing some poise damage and...and what? That's it. Parrying trash mobs is pointless, because it's simpler and faster to just whack them a few more times until they die. Parrying elites is meaningless, because you're risking to get a solid hit in the face, instead of safely blocking it. Even if you succeed, there's no benefit. The damage to poise is negligible compared to the size of a poise bar for an elite enemy and if there's any bonus damage, it's so low, I haven't even noticed it. You can't even counterstrike the enemy properly, because while it's stuck in short stagger animation, you're stuck in parry animation.

There's a skill tree effect that doubles melee damage to an enemy for 2 seconds after you break their poise. Why is it not a default effect for parry? And instead of atrocious mistake like Bash, do an automatic charge hit to a parried enemy with a guaranteed crit.

Block completely nullifies the attack, free and requires no timing or skill to use. It's infinitely superior to trying to boost your ego with parry. I don't know if block is currently broken, but I never got my poise broken and never even noticed any stamina drain from blocking.

4. Animations are way too long and restrictive.

I didn't find any proper animation cancels. Usually, to make the movement feel more responsive and fast-paced, animations have points where you're able to start another move or stop the animation prematurely. I don't think it's being done here at all. The easiest to notice it is felling axe. After the hit you're stuck for a whole second, where you can't do anything. You're not able to interrupt animation earlier to change the direction if you start hitting in the wrong one. And it feels real bad. There surely should be ways to cancel out the overly dramatic swings to start moving or raise your shield.

5. Melee skill tree is a mess.

I'm not going to dwell too much on this one, because even melee part of skill tree deserves a whole separate review on it and I hope the whole tree is more or less a placeholder and will receive an overhaul, but i will point out a few pain points:

I. Melee skills.

Merciless strike is a joke, why it doesn't have i-frames? On top of it, you need to break enemy poise first to even use it and I already described all the problems with poise. By the time you do so, enemy is either already dead or has less than 10% HP. And health orbs from merciless kills is a separate perk deep into the tree.

Evasion strike is an another anecdote. You need to spend a bunch of stamine to roll, then you enable slow-mo and epically...deal a normal strike to an enemy. Running towards the enemy is literally faster, spends less stamina, you're less vulnerable and instead of epic slow-mo you can hit enemy 2-3 times and deal far more damage.

Just make it a dash/charge towards enemy, activated if you attack while running and enemy is in range. You spend some stamina, like on a roll, do a very fast dash, deal some good damage to an enemy hit and stun them for 0.5 seconds. That's it, you have fun and useful skill.

Jump strike at least has some use. With 2H weapon you're not going to notice it being slow too much and the skill has an actual multiplicator on it's damage. It just needs some polish like making the animation faster and not nullfiyng momentum on use.

II. Melee nodes.

Node placement is wacky. Jump strike makes sense, it's close to 2H tree and adjacent to Double jump and nove that boost dmg when you do double jump.

But "Tank" (oh god, this name is awful. Change it to "knight" or "sentinel", "paladin" anything, it's a slang and it's completely out of place with other branch names like "trickster", "ranger" or "warrior") has no nodes to shield? In fact stuff like Bash (aside from being some sick joke on devs part) and increased poise damage from parry are all over the place.

Boosts to specific damage types are in 1H tree. This tree also has a crit node that works on all melee damage, but 2H weapons tree has an additional crit node for 2H weapons only.

Strenght keystone locked behind 2H keystone, so you're out of luck if you go with 1H weapon, you can only gen some constitution.

Battle Heal is a mandatory node for any melee and it's in a magic tree? On top of it, locked behind Evasion attack (why it's in magic tree, instead of ranger?) and a dead end, because all nodes after it are either magic weapons focused or for mana recovery.

It's such a mess.

6. Some enemy types/attacks are too anti-melee.

Flying enemies are obvious, but I moved them to a separate issue already. On top of it there are shroud pods, traps, exploding barrels, exploding bugs. I swear, those bugs are bugged. I died multiple time from them spawning directly under my feet, instantly exploding and one-tapping me. I have 1500 health. How. Matrone and big shroom enemies explode on death too, but they have a ~2 second delay, even if you kill them. And I have no problem with them, if you got hit by it, it's a skill issue. Do the same with shroud pods and red bugs.

A lot of boss attacks are unfair for melee. Monstrosity fires this shroud mortar that creates a massive field. If you're ranged, you literally do not care, this does nothing to you. Then the shotgun attack. At range you can walk out of it, in melee you're stunlocked, because projectiles have no travel time for melee range. Matrone still will most likely one-shot you with her acid attack, while ranger with a bow can leizurely walk out of it.

7. Damage types do not work.

EDIT: I'm talking physical damage types only

Why do they work in Valheim? Enemies are either vulnerable, neutral or resistant to specific damage types. You can craft different weapon types and those weapons will deal a specific type of damage. So you have control over what damage you're dealing.

Enshrouded: here's your sword, it deal equal parts of Cutting, Piersing and Blunt damage. On top of it, it Poisons and deals bonus Shroud damage. Enjoy. You hit an enemy with it and see Effective and Resistant at the same time. That's not how it supposed to work. I still have absolutely no idea what damage types are and how they work, but I can list you off what enemies are weak to what damage in Valheim and I last played this game like more than a year ago.

8. Damage stats are bugged/confusing.

In the capital, where you fight the wyvern, you can find a lvl 25 sword on the third storie of one of the homes. Lucky me, I had the same identical sword, with the same name and dmg type distribution, but level 16. So my sword has 26 damage listed and this new one is 47. That looks like a huge upgrade.

It deals 30% less damage overall.

???

It's the same, identical sword, it deals the same damage types and distribution, it even has identical name and yet, despite almost double the difference in base damage listed, it deals less damage somehow. Less damage, while hitting the same identical enemy.

And stuff like this happens regularly later on too, where weapons with less damage listed sometimes deal far more damage or instead high level weapons hitting like wet noodles.

And I can't even craft weapons with specific damage types to try and learn about enemies weaknesses.



In the end, I still completed all the content in the game with 1H melee build, so it certanly viable at least. But there's a lot of rough places that require polish. I will be back after some patches for sure, but for now time to try something else.

[Sgt.JESUS]

Yeah i havent seen any mob above level 18, and thats because i build a stair to go to the highlands, so your criticism sounds valid, my fighter is doing ok now, but maybe when he gets there i will have the same issues.
Although you said something about a level 30 scavenger, the max EA level is 25 so you are in trouble there just because of that level dif.
I notice my fighter could make mistakes though, and i do that a lot, im playing as a archer and almost got one shoted by a 3 levelhigher enemy, was with food, but those points in constitution really helped after that wake up call.
I only played solo too, so those group mechanics are new to me, the AI seens simple enough, but people said in other thread that enemies get smarter the higher they are, those dual wielding scavengers can jump and persue you like no other low level bandit can, i just wish they at least could climb some stairs.

[finalfantasy]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

Although you said something about a level 30 scavenger, the max EA level is 25 so you are in trouble there just because of that level dif.

The max PLAYER level is 25. Enemies however go up to level 30. So yes, in the "endgame" your are fighting enemies that are 5 levels ahead of yours.
But level diff is not so essential like in earlier stages of the game because besids you can't level up anymore you are still getting stronger by getting better gear.

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

im playing as a archer and almost got one shoted by a 3 levelhigher enemy, was with food, but those points in constitution really helped after that wake up call.

As i said, archer and mages are somehow glass canons, but you can stay almost all time at distance.
Another reason why in theory it makes sense to play in a team with a fighter and an archer/mage, but since the fighter is so weak compared against mage/archer, it's not fun anymore.

Some days ago i played as a fighter with two mages, one a combat mage and the other one more like a healer. That was absolutely over the top. I just drew attention of the enemies and blocked them, while the healer also healed me and the combat mage just waited until im surrounded by enemies just to kill them all at once with a single or at max. two fireballs. Being the fighter however is like bringing a knife to a gun fight. :D

[finalfantasy]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

the AI seens simple enough, but people said in other thread that enemies get smarter the higher they are

No, they don't become smarter, but their HP and the damage they do is increased. Not sure about the exact value but i read ~30% increase per player.

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

those dual wielding scavengers can jump and persue you like no other low level bandit can, i just wish they at least could climb some stairs.

Enemies are really dumb in enshrouded. The only thing about the dual wielding scavanger is he's fast.
Enemies just jump down, but not up. Also they don't climb ladders. So since archers and mages use ranged weapons you can easily either (double)jump/climb/grapple up onto something elevated, e.g. like those little towers enemy archers like to stand on, or lure enemies into a pit, then just jump out yourself and in both cases shoot them from above without any danger because they can't even hit you.
Another approach a fighter can not really make a use of.

[kritze]

why melee if you kill everything as ranger or magician easy? Melee is actually underwhelming. not worth and more difficult if you have to fight against flying enemys with primary strenght attributes.

[Skywalker]

Anno 1415 died 10.000 french melee knights to 1.600 english fighters with their longbows.

So yes, it was and is a fact: Melee is not so good against someone with a ranged weapon. So if you choose melee you nearly in all games have to put more effort in your gameplay. Just your decision.

[Asherogar]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

Melee is fine, not perfect, and people that said that block is worthless arent using a shield, i block those dual wielding poison bandits all the time and strafe the bastard for some backstabbing.

No, melee is certanly not fine. It's workable, but compared to other options is very...workable. You're able to clear current content with melee if you put effort, but the experience of doing so is lukewarm.

Besides you mentioned how you just reached highlands. You're at a point in the game where you massively outscale enemies with gear, stats and perks from the tree. Enemy scaling didn't catch up yet, so you're bruteforcing most of the problem I mentioned with just pure numbers. All my criticism was made assuming lvl 23-25 enemies, the ones supposedly on-par with the current max level and okay, but not ultra min-maxed full legendary lvl25 gear.

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

Every fighter should have a bow in this game, or a wand, for those pesky flyers.

Why?

Archer can complete the entire game without using melee weapons other than tools.

Mage can complete the entire game with staff and wand.

Warrior can't. Why?

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

As for the damage types, the bee swarm is killable with the torch but not the sword, as it should, every single furry animal or enemy is resistant to ice damage and vulnerable to fire. Use fire on the shroud enemies and ice on the bandits, working fine.

The bee swarm is killable with arrows. Not some magic or explosive arrows, just basic wooden arrows are very effective against them. This logic doesn't work.

I specifically added a clarification about me talking only physical damage, because melee have no acess to other damage types. It's cool to know that shroud enemies are weak to fire. How am I going to use it this knowledge as a melee? I can't. I can't even craft or get my hands on a weapon that deals a specific damage type, but mage can just switch the spell or wand.

So as I said, damage type system doesn't work for melee.

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

I agree that parry is hard, i usually attack twice and then raise my shield, against bandits its almost a garanteed parry, works with those wookies too. The problem is the delay, you cannot spam block, or the game would be like sekiro, its a change from most parry mechanics, hard to adapt and since i suck at parry in every soulsgame, i miss most of the time.

The parry is not hard. While the parry window is a bit less generous compared to Valheim, animation locks make it so even if you see the attack and press buttons in time, your character will not parry or even block. Because it's stuck in the last 0.3s of his heroic swing.

The parry is pointless. You can just infinitely block. It has a block window of an entire attack animation, completely nullifies damage, can block a freight train hitting you at full speed with a shield and effect of blocking an enemy attack compared to parrying it is the same, but with 0 risk or skill involved. Why bother and risk?

[Turd King]

I find the blink anti-stun to be a big help with melee.. but then again it takes away from quite a few melee skills....

[finalfantasy]

Originally posted by Asherogar:

The bee swarm is killable with arrows. Not some magic or explosive arrows, just basic wooden arrows are very effective against them.

Yep, same problem as all flying enemies for the fighter: Since you can't aim melee attacks you most times just not hit them, even if the swarm right in front of you. Only thing you can do is jump attack (if you even skilled it), but since flying enemies are also moving in all directions it's barely hard to even hit them with a jump attack.
But i really laughed when i realized you can kill a bee swarm with bow and arrows. :D

Originally posted by Asherogar:

I specifically added a clarification about me talking only physical damage, because melee have no acess to other damage types.

There are many melee weapons that deal (at least if upgraded) additional "magic" damage. Probably most of them are legendary and of course the only way to use them is to find them beforehand.

[The Big Brzezinski]

Magic is the most well developed. The interplay of wands and staves is interesting and expressive. Archery is less so, but at least you can aim at heads and use fancy arrows.

Melee is very flat by contrast. You spend most of your time spamming a zero cost attack. You only real alternative options are jump attacks and merciless attacks. Jump attacks to provide a strong AOE move you can employ rapidly, but it's situational. Merciless attacks are even more so, as they leave you vulnerable to other enemies while you perform them. I'm not entirely sure merciless attacks are actually better than hitting Q and blasting a spell at a stunned opponent.

My next theory is to bomb around with a sword & board & battle & staff build to see how using both melee and magic works. Doing that damage blink into an enemy followed by an evade strike is fun, at least.

[Outlaw Mugen]

Originally posted by kritze:

why melee if you kill everything as ranger or magician easy? Melee is actually underwhelming. not worth and more difficult if you have to fight against flying enemys with primary strenght attributes.

Melee does feel underwhelming BUT after creating few builds.... I can safely say melee needs a backup player. Unlike range users who can kite / use height to their advantage staying away from trouble, melee users either have to hit and run or rely on a healer / damage dealers to pick off targets quickly.

I have made Two Handed melee build with max STR and all the good perks ( plus lvl 25 legendary equipment ). I was dealing around 500-700 damage to lvl 30 mobs. Damage wise it was okay but I lacked AOE of a mage, I got constantly interrupted by smallest of attacks and despite wearing heavy armour I could still die in just a few hits.

Therefore I concluded that Two Handed melee build is for : Hit and Run tactic, Backstab secondary DPS or frontliner requiring constant support ( This is especially true because in group fight you will constantly run out of stamina and aforementioned staggering will interrupt your attacks or attempts to flee ).

My second melee build focused on ONE HANDED WEAPONS + SHIELD. Now despite having broad range of melee weapons to choose from ( hammers, axes and swords.... ) all of them felt similar. From animations, damage to the attack speed. Unlike mages who have strong elemental bonuses, melee weapons feel underwhelming. They need to buff some stats rather then spread them all over. Why some axes have Blunt Damage? Just focus on cutting and piercing.

Anyways. As with my 2handed build I focused on lvl 30 enemies and... strangely despite doing less damage I was taking the targets faster than with Two Handed weapons. This is due to the fact that not only I was attacking faster but I could "cancel" my actions into a block. Which meant more attacks on target ( more crits or elemental damage some swords, fully upgraded, provide whooping ~25% crit chance! ). Blocking saved me from getting overwhelmed BUT my stamina drained with each action I took. Which means I had to run away to safety just to take a breather.

Thanks to certain SKILLS I could take more hits than my two handed build but the bottom line remained the same. Go in deal damage and back off before getting overwhelmed. Not to mention I had to swap to range wands If I had to fight a flying enemy ( the damage was pitiful seeing I had no points in Intelligence ).

In conclusion I can say that even though melee doesn't feel satisfying ( for example this game's parry pales in comparison even with Dark Souls 1 game, from sound to animations / reward for getting it ), it is still engaging enough to be considered enjoyable.

Now how would they fix melee without making it too powerful ? After all last thing we want is one man army with a huge axe spinning around decimating everything.

I guess they have to start experimenting. Changing stats on weapons is a good start ( don't want them to feel the same! Make maces have a chance to stun enemies, axes to penetrate some of the armour / shields and swords to cause bleeding. ) Introduce OILS for weapon coating so even melee users can exploit enemy weaknesses and lastly change the animations for swings, introduce HEAVY swings so players can now interrupt the enemy attacks and / or change how heavy armour works ( give us POISE system the heavier the armour is ). Light armour higher jumps more stamina regen but heavier types more durability, no stun locking and less jump height.

Just throwing some ideas....

[PariahMessiah]

On the parry/Merciless attack note. There are some enemies where the parry timing still gets you hurt (the birds and the green crackhead scavengers). With Merciless attack though if you're in a 1v1 situation this is literally a free kill because you can mash E and repeatedly merciless the target to death, possibly sneak attack too but never seen anything survive one of those.

[Fherrit]

Originally posted by Skywalker:

Anno 1415 died 10.000 french melee knights to 1.600 english fighters with their longbows.

So yes, it was and is a fact: Melee is not so good against someone with a ranged weapon. So if you choose melee you nearly in all games have to put more effort in your gameplay. Just your decision.

Respectfully Skywalker, this isn't a military simulator, its a fantasy action game, so that comparison brings nothing to the discussion.

No one is claiming that we want less effort, we're saying that the discrepancy is a pretty big gap, and a action game that has such a noticeable, and severe gap needs to do one of two things, either eliminate the under performing option, or close the gap so that all playstyles are satisfying. Not equal, but satisfying. And note, no one is as of yet, suggesting magic or bows get nerfed, no one in this thread is begrudging them their success. But currently melee is very UN-satisfying for all the reasons brought up so far.

We're not bashing the Devs, we're bringing to their attention that this gap exists, is pretty big, and needs to be filled, due to the various reasons that pile on top of each other to make for poor gameplay for non-ranged characters. Its called "Early Access" for a reason, and I'm sure I'm not alone in thinking, unsatisfying gameplay about *anything* in early access is to be identified and tuned accordingly.

So sure, the Devs could be like you and shrug their shoulders and say "tough noodles, play a mage"...but if so, their userbase will drop off as those who don't want to jump on the mage wagon go to other titles. Final analysis, this not only affects their bottom line, but more importantly, their reputation as game devs. If they're as tone deaf as you are, they're not good devs.

Fortunately, my impression so far is they *are* taking note of it and *do* intend to make it better, which makes the OP's post not only useful feedback, but valuable.

[Ov Å̪e̞oη̣s]

I can safely say melee attacker shine with magic dipping, blink/blink attack (and/or jump attack), fire damage buffing and getting the crit/ on crit nodes for magic makes melee shine. I really think melee/blink trivializes too many bosses though as it keeps you SUPER mobile and can do damage (with buffs mine is doing more damage than my melee hit).

[finalfantasy]

Originally posted by Skywalker:

Anno 1415 died 10.000 french melee knights to 1.600 english fighters with their longbows.

So yes, it was and is a fact: Melee is not so good against someone with a ranged weapon.

Holy moly, i didn't even notice this post.

First: A video game is not entirely bound to reality. So the argument "it is (not) realistic" is only partially acceptable. So i'd say, if you want absolute realism, go attend a paintball simulation of d-day and see how far you get.

Second: Regarding the current game state, enemies that do ranged attacks ar pointless. Those are weak and aren't the reason why anyone has trouble at all. At least i don't pay even attention to them, because they only deal less damage and are easy to kill, even for an absolute weak melee player. Those are practically completely irrelevant. You can easily ignore them until you are done with anything else.
What is completely the opposite of your "argument".

So from your "historical" argument, especially the ranged enemies should be your biggest concern. But they are not. And your historical "argument" is wrong on so many levels, as in the game there is not even something similar to trench warfare or anything nearly similiar about how mass battles have been performed in the 15th century.
In those battles either 1600 archers opposited 10.000 melee fighters on an open battlefield or even the archers just defended a castle. Where exactly in the game in anything remotely similar to that happening?

And even then, if NPC archers would be that strong in the game, you wouldn't be even able to enter just the elixier well of the first boss, because those few archers running around them would have killed you before you came even close.

[Bongoboy]

Originally posted by Asherogar:

Why do they work in Valheim? Enemies are either vulnerable, neutral or resistant to specific damage types. You can craft different weapon types and those weapons will deal a specific type of damage. So you have control over what damage you're dealing.

I find in Enshrouded you should not be able to find weapons and armors in chests. Or if you do, make it so I can craft the same stuff that I find. Enshrouded is a crafting game, not a pure action adventure like Kingdoms of Amalur where you find everything.

Ideal would be you craft all your gear and find things that allows you to upgrade it's rarity. Finding stuff would also work way better, if it is dropped by enemies and not found in chests because chests can be abused way to easily in a game where you can place starting points wherever you want.

What also would be good, is if in the melee skill tree there is a ability that turns the timed parry into a outright counterattack that deals increased damage.

I would also add one melee weapon type, maybe dual wield daggers or a spear, that does damage based on Dexterity instead of Strength... and one ranged weapon, maybe a crossbow that shoots rather slow, that does damage based on Strength.

I realize that you can, and possibly are meant to spread points for a more diverse play style... but honestly as the talent system is right now you kind of loose out if you not specialize into one of the three mains tats, at least it feels like.