Suggestions for making 1.x a better game

[Skaarphy]

All very subjective, of course. But I do think Enshrouded would be better off for it.

- Make the skill tree more meaningful

Make points count for something. 5% or 10% more damage with [damage type], or a 1-point increase of an attribute is either a meaningless filler between the nodes you really want to get to, or it is - worst case scenario - all there is to it.

Case in point: I'm currently level 6, have not gone beyond Springlands, and have 11 skill points just sitting there because a) very little in the skill tree feels really appealing, and b) there is no necessity.
In an ideal skill tree you have the sweet agony of choice: I do want to have double jump but I also want to have 20% damage increase with magic. What do I do?

Of course, making skill points more meaningful in such a way would necessitate increasing the difficulty curve.

- Make POIs more interesting

All too often I come across a landmark or some such and it's just nothing, A graphic. No danger, no lore, no loot. That really has to change.
I'm not saying that every ruin has to provide something, but the overwhelming majority should. As a player you should feel compelled to go and check it out because there might always be something: XP, loot, a quest, some lore tidbit, a challenging encounter ... Skyrim-style!
So far, it's far and in-between. At the very least put some monsters there.

- Make Shroud monsters significantly more dangerous than non-Shroud monsters

Very personal but I'd really love to see it. In the custom difficulty settings, separate the Shroud monsters damage/aggressiveness/abundance from the non-Shroud monsters. This feeling of dread - the graphics, the sound, the lore - when entering the shroud is not being reflected by the dangers I've encountered so far. The only true danger is the timer.
Overall, i think Shroud spawn should pose a significantly greater danger than scavengers or wildlife. It'd fit the theme ...

That's about it. So far I enjoy Enshrouded a lot. But as far as I'm concerned it's missing something. That's what my thoughts are regarding what that might be.

[WildOne4ever]

Ich glaube da hast du etwas übersehen, du kannst im Menü die Einstellungen komplett anpassen.
Ist es Dir zu einfach,
erhöhe die Gegner Anzahl, die Angriffs Frequenz und die Schlagkraft .
Wenn das nicht reicht kannst du "das Leben" der Gegner zusätzlich erhöhen .
Ich spiele es seit Beginn . Selbst nach ein paar Durchläufen entdecke ich noch immer neue Sachen. Für ein Spiel in der Entwicklungsphase bietet es enorm viel . Manche Städte oder Bereiche wurden komplett überarbeitet und durch viel komplexere Gebäudestrukturen ersetzt .
Aber du bist ja noch ganz am Anfang, da kommt noch einiges .
Viel Spaß noch .

[Nerevar]

skyrim is probaly the worst example of open world design unless youre one of the "story most important" people. as most of its map is not even worth visiting due to the broken perk and gear systems and the utter nonsense of leveled bs loot bethetic has been useing for too long still believeing to be a good system when its hot trash in reality and even goes to the point that it actively punishes exploration.

due to the way the games loot system works majority of locations arent worth visiting and never will be unless that system gets overhauled from the ground up first.

the skilltree is keept simple because of the target audience. complex choices arent good for thier target audience. this is extremely unlikely to get changed therefore.

the default of the game will remain easy. see above as to why. this wont change anymore. bosses might offer a spike in difficulty but the game only has 2 major bossfights really the rest is just normal enemies beeing reused with boss health bars. its meant for beeing able to be button mashed trough in most cases by default. have to use world settings to get a moderate challenge.

youre very new to the game. what you said has been brought up a bunch of times by now. the best you can hope for is them addressing the trash tier loot system as thats still in the cards the rest is extremely unlikely. and if they dont well still a nice game but most of the community will disappear after 1.0 in that case leaveing only the "building for buildings sake" people behind.

[Skaarphy]

@Nerevar: I find Skyrim to be a good example of open world design. The leveled loot system ensures that there is at least the possibility that you will find something useful. Sadly, the difficulty is lacking, among its many other flaws. But what it does achieve is, for a while at least, you are rarely not interested in looking what's around the next corner.
I don't feel that to that extent in Enshrouded, although ramping up the various difficulty sliders does help. The way I see it: Make me want to explore because I need the XP and the loot so as not to struggle as much and be able to overcome future challenges. Without the struggle and the challenges this falls off and I start to lose interest in the exploration aspect.

You're probably very much right when you say that nothing fundamental will change anymore. Like I said, to make the skill tree more meaningful they'd need to ramp up the difficulty or it becomes too easy too soon. And an overhaul like that, with release being around the corner, is not going to happen. But maybe it's some food for thought for further work on the game once it's released. If they read this, that is. It wouldn't be the first time that devs overhaul their game post release. There's some precedence, and as far as I know, it's been welcomed by the players more often than not.

@WildOne4ever: Ich glaube, dass war vielleicht etwas misverständlich. Mein Anliegen ist, dass die Shroud-Monster eigene Schwierigkeitsgrad-Slider bekommen. Bisher sind diese ja global, aber um zu reflektieren, was für eine Bedrohung sie darstellen, möchte ich sie in etwa doppelt so gefährlich machen wie nicht-Shroud Monster.

[Skaarphy]

One thing I've forgotten in my first post. Probably pointless since it's likely been requested half a gazillion times already, and if the devs wanted to see it done they probably would have already.
Nonetheless: Make single-player games save the entire gameworld, not just quest progress and the state of the char. This too is something that motivates for exploration. Running out of resin? Tough luck, no turning off and on the game for you, go and find some proper trees, you bum. Like that.
It also helps with immersion, of course.

I must admit I have no idea why this isn't so. I cannot imagine a good reason for that, to be honest. It's being done in 7 Days to Die, for example, which in certain regards might be the game most similar to Enshrouded, so why isn't it here?

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Skaarphy:

One thing I've forgotten in my first post. Probably pointless since it's likely been requested half a gazillion times already, and if the devs wanted to see it done they probably would have already.
Nonetheless: Make single-player games save the entire gameworld, not just quest progress and the state of the char. This too is something that motivates for exploration. Running out of resin? Tough luck, no turning off and on the game for you, go and find some proper trees, you bum. Like that.
It also helps with immersion, of course.

I must admit I have no idea why this isn't so. I cannot imagine a good reason for that, to be honest. It's being done in 7 Days to Die, for example, which in certain regards might be the game most similar to Enshrouded, so why isn't it here?

first off :

skyrim is a TERRIBLE example of open world design. leveled loot is garbage by design in any open world game as it defeats the point of it beeing open world in the first place. the fact you believe otherwise tells me : YOU have never experienced GOOD open world game design in your gameing life. which makes me feel sorry for you. plenty of the skyrim generation players dont even know what good open world design is as they have simply never experienced it and thus only know this crap version.

skyrim is the worst tes game ever made when it comes to meaningful open world exploration. the older ones like morrowind would make your head explode compared. not even takeing into account the dumbing down of the franchise stables that it did ON TOP. i cannot take anyone serioulsy who calls that game a good open world example as its clear they dont know what they talk about instantly with such a claim.

enshrouded will never become a difficult game by default. so sliders are the best option youll probaly get.

as for the above quoted part :

yes. was requested many times by people who dont understand why things are the way they are right now.

so wont happen. why? the reason is simple and was explained by the devs even : PERFORMANCE. saveing the entire gameworld would kill the performance. thier entire gameworld is designed for the world resetting thier engine is designed for it. certain ore sources are limited on the map and only found in 1-2 places. once mined out they are gone for good. the map just isnt designed to persist. even the loot is currently designed to only work with chests respawning. this is something you cannot even know to be case since youre so early in the game yet already make suggestions without even knowing the current full picture.

your 7 days example again proofs me a lack of gameing experience with such systems : i know 7 days. i play it aswell. the comparsion does not work at all. 7 days maps are randomly generated. they are much larger you can even decide the map size yourself. majority of pois exist multiple times per map. ore and raw materials are the same everywhere except oil shale. there is traders selling infinite ♥♥♥♥. there is infinite quests that reset pois infinitely. the entire core concept of 7 days works differently than the one in enshrouded. compareing them is therefore nonsense when the fundamentals are this different from another.

you would have to change so much about enshrouded to make the world persistent that a fundamental rework would have to be done.

[Captain Canard]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

you would have to change so much about enshrouded to make the world persistent that a fundamental rework would have to be done.

Speculation

[Wingblaze]

If you want to make suggestions, you'd be a lot better off putting those on the developer's site rather than here. We're all just players here.

[Rhouna]

Originally posted by Skaarphy:

All very subjective, of course.

Thank you very much for this remark, it was really good to read this, instead of the texts where the thread creators present their views as generally valid opinions.


Have fun!

[Skaarphy]

Originally posted by Nerevar:

Originally posted by Skaarphy:

One thing I've forgotten in my first post. Probably pointless since it's likely been requested half a gazillion times already, and if the devs wanted to see it done they probably would have already.
Nonetheless: Make single-player games save the entire gameworld, not just quest progress and the state of the char. This too is something that motivates for exploration. Running out of resin? Tough luck, no turning off and on the game for you, go and find some proper trees, you bum. Like that.
It also helps with immersion, of course.

I must admit I have no idea why this isn't so. I cannot imagine a good reason for that, to be honest. It's being done in 7 Days to Die, for example, which in certain regards might be the game most similar to Enshrouded, so why isn't it here?

first off :

skyrim is a TERRIBLE example of open world design. leveled loot is garbage by design in any open world game as it defeats the point of it beeing open world in the first place. the fact you believe otherwise tells me : YOU have never experienced GOOD open world game design in your gameing life. which makes me feel sorry for you. plenty of the skyrim generation players dont even know what good open world design is as they have simply never experienced it and thus only know this crap version.

skyrim is the worst tes game ever made when it comes to meaningful open world exploration. the older ones like morrowind would make your head explode compared. not even takeing into account the dumbing down of the franchise stables that it did ON TOP. i cannot take anyone serioulsy who calls that game a good open world example as its clear they dont know what they talk about instantly with such a claim.

enshrouded will never become a difficult game by default. so sliders are the best option youll probaly get.

as for the above quoted part :

yes. was requested many times by people who dont understand why things are the way they are right now.

so wont happen. why? the reason is simple and was explained by the devs even : PERFORMANCE. saveing the entire gameworld would kill the performance. thier entire gameworld is designed for the world resetting thier engine is designed for it. certain ore sources are limited on the map and only found in 1-2 places. once mined out they are gone for good. the map just isnt designed to persist. even the loot is currently designed to only work with chests respawning. this is something you cannot even know to be case since youre so early in the game yet already make suggestions without even knowing the current full picture.

your 7 days example again proofs me a lack of gameing experience with such systems : i know 7 days. i play it aswell. the comparsion does not work at all. 7 days maps are randomly generated. they are much larger you can even decide the map size yourself. majority of pois exist multiple times per map. ore and raw materials are the same everywhere except oil shale. there is traders selling infinite ♥♥♥♥. there is infinite quests that reset pois infinitely. the entire core concept of 7 days works differently than the one in enshrouded. compareing them is therefore nonsense when the fundamentals are this different from another.

you would have to change so much about enshrouded to make the world persistent that a fundamental rework would have to be done.

My first open world game was Gothic back when it came out, I've played TES: Arena, Morrowind, Gothic II and III, Two Worlds, and I don't know how many other games.
So much for that, I guess.
Not sure what makes you think that leveled loot defeats the idea of an open world ... because you don't say. You just state it as fact. Then let me just say this: No, it doesn't.
What now, Nerevar? Will you write back, "YES. IT DOES!!!!!" in all-caps and five exclamation marks?

I'm not quite sure how saving the entire gameworld would affect performance, but if the devs say so, okay, they know best. Too bad because I had some hopes that we might get it eventually. I do have some doubts regarding your other points about this issue but since performance is pretty much a knockout argument it'd be pointless to bring them up.

As for you saying 7 Days to Die is not comparable to Enshrouded: Nothing of what you say seems to have any bearing on my point - which was, to remind you: If we can save the entire gameworld there, why can't we do it here? Because it's not randomly generated? Because in 7DTD ore and raw materials are the same everywhere and in Enshrouded it's different? I mean ... buddy?
The reason why I brought up 7DTD is because just like with Enshrouded its engine is voxel based, it's a 3D 1st/3rd-person open world game, and it lets you destroy the landscape and construct all kinds of architecture. These are the similarities that I find relevant when it comes to comparing the two in regards to saving a persistent gameworld.
If they aren't, my bad, and if the way the devs set up their engine in a way that persistence would kill performance, too bad. As far as I'm concerned it'd make the experience so much better.

[Skaarphy]

Originally posted by Wingblaze:

If you want to make suggestions, you'd be a lot better off putting those on the developer's site rather than here. We're all just players here.

Damn. I've checked their site and they don't have a forum. Turns out they do have one on their German site. Now I have to write the whole thing again in German. ^^

[Skaarphy]

Originally posted by Rhouna:

Originally posted by Skaarphy:

All very subjective, of course.

Thank you very much for this remark, it was really good to read this, instead of the texts where the thread creators present their views as generally valid opinions.


Have fun!

I must strongly object to my views not being generally valid opinions.
Just kidding, thanks. I'm having a lot of fun. Started out good and it keeps getting better and better.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Captain Canard:

Originally posted by Nerevar:

you would have to change so much about enshrouded to make the world persistent that a fundamental rework would have to be done.

Speculation

not really. the evidence as for why is right there in the game right now. could it be a optional setting ? yes. but that setting would simply not work at all. especially in multiplayer. the loot system also goes strictly againist this currently.

[Nerevar]

Originally posted by Skaarphy:

Originally posted by Nerevar:

first off :

skyrim is a TERRIBLE example of open world design. leveled loot is garbage by design in any open world game as it defeats the point of it beeing open world in the first place. the fact you believe otherwise tells me : YOU have never experienced GOOD open world game design in your gameing life. which makes me feel sorry for you. plenty of the skyrim generation players dont even know what good open world design is as they have simply never experienced it and thus only know this crap version.

skyrim is the worst tes game ever made when it comes to meaningful open world exploration. the older ones like morrowind would make your head explode compared. not even takeing into account the dumbing down of the franchise stables that it did ON TOP. i cannot take anyone serioulsy who calls that game a good open world example as its clear they dont know what they talk about instantly with such a claim.

enshrouded will never become a difficult game by default. so sliders are the best option youll probaly get.

as for the above quoted part :

yes. was requested many times by people who dont understand why things are the way they are right now.

so wont happen. why? the reason is simple and was explained by the devs even : PERFORMANCE. saveing the entire gameworld would kill the performance. thier entire gameworld is designed for the world resetting thier engine is designed for it. certain ore sources are limited on the map and only found in 1-2 places. once mined out they are gone for good. the map just isnt designed to persist. even the loot is currently designed to only work with chests respawning. this is something you cannot even know to be case since youre so early in the game yet already make suggestions without even knowing the current full picture.

your 7 days example again proofs me a lack of gameing experience with such systems : i know 7 days. i play it aswell. the comparsion does not work at all. 7 days maps are randomly generated. they are much larger you can even decide the map size yourself. majority of pois exist multiple times per map. ore and raw materials are the same everywhere except oil shale. there is traders selling infinite ♥♥♥♥. there is infinite quests that reset pois infinitely. the entire core concept of 7 days works differently than the one in enshrouded. compareing them is therefore nonsense when the fundamentals are this different from another.

you would have to change so much about enshrouded to make the world persistent that a fundamental rework would have to be done.

My first open world game was Gothic back when it came out, I've played TES: Arena, Morrowind, Gothic II and III, Two Worlds, and I don't know how many other games.
So much for that, I guess.
Not sure what makes you think that leveled loot defeats the idea of an open world ... because you don't say. You just state it as fact. Then let me just say this: No, it doesn't.
What now, Nerevar? Will you write back, "YES. IT DOES!!!!!" in all-caps and five exclamation marks?

I'm not quite sure how saving the entire gameworld would affect performance, but if the devs say so, okay, they know best. Too bad because I had some hopes that we might get it eventually. I do have some doubts regarding your other points about this issue but since performance is pretty much a knockout argument it'd be pointless to bring them up.

As for you saying 7 Days to Die is not comparable to Enshrouded: Nothing of what you say seems to have any bearing on my point - which was, to remind you: If we can save the entire gameworld there, why can't we do it here? Because it's not randomly generated? Because in 7DTD ore and raw materials are the same everywhere and in Enshrouded it's different? I mean ... buddy?
The reason why I brought up 7DTD is because just like with Enshrouded its engine is voxel based, it's a 3D 1st/3rd-person open world game, and it lets you destroy the landscape and construct all kinds of architecture. These are the similarities that I find relevant when it comes to comparing the two in regards to saving a persistent gameworld.
If they aren't, my bad, and if the way the devs set up their engine in a way that persistence would kill performance, too bad. As far as I'm concerned it'd make the experience so much better.

well ok then. first off : 7 days is a much much older game. it has way less going in terms of graphical effects and behind the scenes processing plus 7 days is constantly called out on its rather poor performance especially in big citys for a reason. the game world was also DESIGNED from the ground up to be persistent. this games one was not designed with that principle in mind. so simply saying "x game it so this can too" is simply ignoreing the differences. then again the ore thing matters way more than you can know where you are game wise right now in enshrouded. certain ores like silver only exist in very very few places and are mined out quickly aswell. and then what? youre locked. you also fully ignore the loot system issue in that comparison as you simply probaly haveing even noticed this issue yet overall. when you have rng loot of this games magnitude and size for the loottable that you cannot craft (unlike 7 days where you can craft nearly anything you can find aswell) at all you will pretty much instantly notice the problem with persistent gameworld. i am not saying its impossible. just that its not very likely given the design concept for this game is different.
7 days is a sandbox survival game. this game is an rpg at its core. voxel based doesnt matter for this. its a design difference at the core.

as for leveled loot and why its bad. do i really have to explain this? ok well there ya go then :

leveled loot punishes early game exploration. especially in a quest based fixed open world.
to provide a rather simple example : in oblivion and skyrim certain quests provide unique item rewards. you cannot craft these. you cannot get them again as the quests are 1 time deals. so if you do these quests too early you get punished for doing so.

on top of that leveled random loot chests beeing the same loottable in every dungeon encourages RESETTING over actually playing the game to get what you want. an issue youll be faced with in enshrouded aswell albeit not as terrible as skyrim or oblivion let me warn you about that. as when the loot is the same ♥♥♥♥ everywhere whats the point in exploreing dungeons? loot is a core concept of good dungeon delving. plus random loot of this magnitude works in a diablo style game. it flat out doesnt work in a game like tes unless you keep the loottable tiny but sadly it isnt tiny. its oversized to a unhuman degree. plus its layered rng on top often. see fallout 4 legendary nonsense for example.

then in skyrims case to put the nail in coffin is that it had the worst and weakest artifacts in tes history stat wise on top of haveing a crafting system that completly invalidates any point in exploration on top of that. not to mention the lore breaking nonsense that leveled loot casues. ebony armor supposed to be rare and exceptional according to tes own lore suddenly appearing in every 2nd store just because you hit level 20 is beyond stupid and gamey. it ruins immersion completly.

so in skyrims case its not just leveled loot. there is even more problems in that game. leveled loot was bad in oblivion for the above reason already. what skyrim did doubled down on this problem.

you played gothic. you played morrowind. this means you have witnessed 2 games which had superior open world design to skyrim in every way aside fancy graphics which is not a suprise given the time between thier releases. how you can say skyrim is better than these open world concept wise is beyond me. thats not logical at all from a systems standpoint in anyway.

hope that helps understand it better. keep playing enshrouded to find out why some of your comparisons are not really working out for the game in its current state.

[Red Purger]

Those little state boosts add up. 1 skill point for 5% extra damage doesn't seem like a lot individually, but 5 skill points will get you 25% extra damage. As you reach a higher level, weapons will do more damage, so that 25% is now even more valuable. There's really no reason to save up skill points; they aren't doing anything for you just sitting there, and you can easily re-spec at the flame altar if you don't like your build.

[Skaarphy]

@Nerevar: I'm not sure why you're still talking about 7DTD, I merely pointed out that none of your points had anything to do with why you can save the gameworld there but not here. And you're still doing it? What has poor performance and low FPS in cities to do with anything?
Why not - right from the get-go - say that 7DTD was designed for it, Enshrouded isn't, and leave it at that? Why all this irrelevant - sorry - nonsense?

Regarding rare resources like silver, do you really not see a solution for that? More silver mines would be one. Giving them a higher yield would be another. Replenishing resources yet another, or silver as loot or quest rewards ... This is not a problem without a solution.

You're right though in that as of yet I cannot say much about any problems with the loot system. I can say some things though: Opening chests, so far I've found multiple green and multiple blue daggers and a ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ of arrows. Also other things of course, but daggers and arrows really stick out. I'm not interested in them.
If the loot situation is really as dire as you suggest wouldn't a simple solution be to a) forcefully even the RNG out a little - e.g. the more of a certain weapon type you've found the less likely it is to further appear in that particular area - and/or b) to make finding actual weapons - or anything of value - more common when opening chests.
And the latter would even make things a bit more exciting. A reason for hope for an upgrade instead of, "Great, another 13 arrows and a rotten bag of tea, it's not like I can farm and craft 10 times the amount in a minute and a half."
Fixed loot would be another solution, i.e. having a fixed amount of certain loot randomly distributed among all the chests of an area. Giving the blue and yellow ones a higher chance to end up in chests in harder to reach places.
Again, not a problem without solutions.
And I have to admit, I'm not even sure whether it actually is a problem, or whether - to be honest - it's just one for you personally. I guess I'll find out.

Last thing: You're saying in a leveled loot system you're being punished for exploration because you will find unique items that you'll eventually outlevel. The earlier, the sooner of course.
Honestly, why should I care? The game provides plenty of ways to make your char a powerhouse, so what's the big deal? Ultimately it's a matter of preference, isn't it? I mean, you realize that, right?
Same thing with 'resetting' a dungeon to game the loot table mechanics. Never felt the need. If you don't get what you want, go elsewhere. There's plenty to do, plenty to find. You don't need whatever's in there, you just want it. Again, personal preference.
And it's actually way more immersive to play that way. Sometimes luck just isn't on your side. The life of an adventurer, and all that.
I agree though that the magical increase of more and more powerful gear in stores and elsewhere is not doing immersion a favor.

I did not, by the way, say that the open world design of Skyrim is better than that of Gothic or Morrowind. I thoroughly disliked Morrowind, maybe that's why I didn't mention it. But as far as I'm concerned Gothic has the best open world design ever created. The reason I did not mention it is because the design differences to Enshrouded are too glaring. Not so with Skyrim.