Enshrouded

Enshrouded

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Cataclysm™ Apr 3, 2024 @ 12:45am
farming chest
tbh i think the farming chest thing... kinda ruined the game.... or maybe is just me... u can just bug in there to get high lvl gear instantly.... or even if you progress normally, once u get top gear you are basically god...and it takes of the fun... or maybe its just me that prefer the old school way.. killing boss, getting mats and craft.
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Showing 16-30 of 39 comments
.... Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:30am 
Originally posted by Nerevar:
Originally posted by ....:

There is no issue for normal people with a bit of self-control.

How do many ppl surive in real life? There are lots of things that even harm yourself you can do and nobody will stop you - for example gambling, alcohole, the ability to read the end of a book and spoier yourself - you can also just eat as much unhealthy food as you want to.

How do you people deal with that in real life?

I dont farm those chest excessively for the same reason i dont read the ending of a book before i start. Its pretty simple. Also even chest farming isnt a real issue since i doubt high level chests will be so easy to get to without enemies and all you can farm now are low level chests - the max level later on is 40. It would even be bad if you couldnt farm them to some extent since you would miss 90% of the gear until you actually reach max level.

literally all of that is pure speculation on your end regarding the game and level 40 wont be the max level that was confirmed already its higher and nobody knows if the same methods wouldnt work anymore later thats just pure speculation and very unlikely given the mindset these devs showed so far.

but i dont waste time trying to reason with your type who try to excuse a terrible loot system that fully invalidates the crafting aspect of the same game. the "hurr durr just dont do it" mindset is plain ignorance of game design issues and only done by one type of player.

its terrible design because when you have 2 systems in the same game that fight each other you DO have a terrible design. and one of these 2 systems either has to go away or they need to be changed to work together. end of story.

thats all youll get from me. as i know denial is the next thing that happens from your type.

Well its not like you can reason since you seem to fail to even recognize the basic concept of the difference between personal preference and bad design.

Im also sorry that the main thing to fix it if its a problem to you is something so obvious that its almost absurd to point it out - it just requires a minimal ammount of self control.

And how on earth are these 2 systems that fight each other? The systems just compliment each other and are pretty standard. Respawning Enemies/Chests is an industry standard.

How can people be so self centered that they seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between something objectively bad/broken etc. and your simple personal preference/opinon?
Last edited by ....; Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:31am
.... Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:36am 
Originally posted by Cataclysm™:
Originally posted by Skywalker:

So don't open a chest twice or don't start farming this chest over and over again? And your game is "not ruined"? Problem fixed ...

EDIT: Your "old school way" by killing a boss is also farming, or? Think of MMORPGs like WoW "Looking for speedrun killing boss ... 5 minutes, only boss" ... or games like diablo, where you also speed killing bosses until you get your desired loot and so on?

you are not getting the point, the point of is way too easy to get top gear... and to reply ur old school way, there are millions and millions of players that enjoy more than farm chest, its not about the time you spend farming one single boss, its about how easy/hard can obtain it, " legendary " how can u call legendary that it takes few runs to get it? if u played others mmorpg or even ARPG...it requires a least a small time of effort, not talking about WoW or ff14, those takes months but at least you have motivation to keep on going... and here... it takes fews runs... the loot system is just horrible

1) No - its not top gear since we are at the start of the game - whatever you get is nowhere near top gear
2) Its only easy if you force yourself to cheese and farm chests with a teleporter
3) There are also millions that dont enjoy it at all - its almost as if people have different preferences ....
4) this is not an MMO where you farm at the end of the game for PVP or other content that is desigend to keep you playing so that you buy MTs and sbuscriptions

But lets continue your argument - there is also nobody stopping you from buying the items or getting them for free from another high level player - or even hire someone to play the game for you - is that bad design aswell?

Are supermarkets also bad design since there is no one stopping you from buying unhealthy food and afterwards eating until you vomit or get sick because of all the unhealthy food? Are humans a bad design because they have the option to make bad decisions?

Are board games a bad design because you can just flip the board when you are about to lose and stop the game that way?

Are books a bad design because you can spoiler yourself easily by reading the end first?
Last edited by ....; Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:37am
.... Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:39am 
I just had to think of this "Test" for some reason (Mrashmallow Test):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DmUM7MW7s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QX_oy9614HQ
Last edited by ....; Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:42am
Nerevar Apr 3, 2024 @ 7:59am 
Originally posted by ....:
Originally posted by Nerevar:

literally all of that is pure speculation on your end regarding the game and level 40 wont be the max level that was confirmed already its higher and nobody knows if the same methods wouldnt work anymore later thats just pure speculation and very unlikely given the mindset these devs showed so far.

but i dont waste time trying to reason with your type who try to excuse a terrible loot system that fully invalidates the crafting aspect of the same game. the "hurr durr just dont do it" mindset is plain ignorance of game design issues and only done by one type of player.

its terrible design because when you have 2 systems in the same game that fight each other you DO have a terrible design. and one of these 2 systems either has to go away or they need to be changed to work together. end of story.

thats all youll get from me. as i know denial is the next thing that happens from your type.

Well its not like you can reason since you seem to fail to even recognize the basic concept of the difference between personal preference and bad design.

Im also sorry that the main thing to fix it if its a problem to you is something so obvious that its almost absurd to point it out - it just requires a minimal ammount of self control.

And how on earth are these 2 systems that fight each other? The systems just compliment each other and are pretty standard. Respawning Enemies/Chests is an industry standard.

How can people be so self centered that they seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between something objectively bad/broken etc. and your simple personal preference/opinon?

you arent even able to SEE which systems i talk about. that speaks for itself i guess. blind to the issue. the systems dont compliment each other AT ALL currently. and i am not talking about respawning enemies. who even thinks like that`?

this isnt a matter of personal perference. never was. its simply beeing able to see logical failures in gameplay design concepts. you design a game so its systems go hand in hand which each other. not so that 1 is makeing another pointless to be in the game. the former is good design. the later is not. the later is the case currently sadly in this games case.
.... Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:06am 
Originally posted by Nerevar:
Originally posted by ....:

Well its not like you can reason since you seem to fail to even recognize the basic concept of the difference between personal preference and bad design.

Im also sorry that the main thing to fix it if its a problem to you is something so obvious that its almost absurd to point it out - it just requires a minimal ammount of self control.

And how on earth are these 2 systems that fight each other? The systems just compliment each other and are pretty standard. Respawning Enemies/Chests is an industry standard.

How can people be so self centered that they seem to fail to understand that there is a difference between something objectively bad/broken etc. and your simple personal preference/opinon?

you arent even able to SEE which systems i talk about. that speaks for itself i guess. blind to the issue. the systems dont compliment each other AT ALL currently. and i am not talking about respawning enemies. who even thinks like that`?

this isnt a matter of personal perference. never was. its simply beeing able to see logical failures in gameplay design concepts. you design a game so its systems go hand in hand which each other. not so that 1 is makeing another pointless to be in the game. the former is good design. the later is not. the later is the case currently sadly in this games case.

Do you even know what you are talking about yourself since you never actually mention what you are even talking about ...

Its amazing how not only you fail to realize that you never really explained what you even said - you constantly talk about systems whithout ever pointing out what you are talking about and its even more amazing that you seem to be completely unable to understand the difference between personal prefrence and objective issues/problems.

But sadly i see this a lot these days - people seem to be unable to realize that people can have different opinions without beeing wrong and that a personal opinion in 99% of the cases isnt the objecdtive truth for everyone ...

Let me guess - from your point of view the experiment is badly designed and not logical?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DmUM7MW7s
Last edited by ....; Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:07am
Nerevar Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:18am 
Originally posted by ....:
Originally posted by Nerevar:

you arent even able to SEE which systems i talk about. that speaks for itself i guess. blind to the issue. the systems dont compliment each other AT ALL currently. and i am not talking about respawning enemies. who even thinks like that`?

this isnt a matter of personal perference. never was. its simply beeing able to see logical failures in gameplay design concepts. you design a game so its systems go hand in hand which each other. not so that 1 is makeing another pointless to be in the game. the former is good design. the later is not. the later is the case currently sadly in this games case.

Do you even know what you are talking about yourself since you never actually mention what you are even talking about ...

Its amazing how not only you fail to realize that you never really explained what you even said - you constantly talk about systems whithout ever pointing out what you are talking about and its even more amazing that you seem to be completely unable to understand the difference between personal prefrence and objective issues/problems.

But sadly i see this a lot these days - people seem to be unable to realize that people can have different opinions without beeing wrong and that a personal opinion in 99% of the cases isnt the objecdtive truth for everyone ...

Let me guess - from your point of view the experiment is badly designed and not logical?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DmUM7MW7s

sigh. there is no OBJECTIVE TRUTH for EVERYONE by default. but any experienced gamer can tell what is good design and tought out in detail and what is slapped on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. thats a matter of experience as a player.

you seem to lack that experience clearly. otherwise you would have instantly been able to tell that i talk about the crafting system beeing invalidated by the loot rng bs. there is no reason to craft anything ever aside building blocks. thus the entire npc and crafting stations stuff is pointless to even be in the game currently. and the reason for this is that rng loot provides everything but BETTER and faster.

an actual good system would have been designed around combinening both systems. and that means not dropping finished items anywhere but makeing enemies bosses and chests have a chance to drop rare crafting materials for example.

that reduces the rng to a more human level and makes the player engage and use both systems together. that is all around a better and more refined and detailed system than "roll 500 times to get what you want" the later is a slot machine and doesnt belong in a game thats supposed to be a "craft/build/survive" setting as its not designed for such a game at its core concept. such systems belong in looter shooters or hack and slash games.

and this is not related to resetting chests to begin with as the world resets by default whenever you take a break from the game. which btw isnt an industry standard for these games at all but its a required downside of fixed worldmaps sadly.
Last edited by Nerevar; Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:20am
.... Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:26am 
Originally posted by Nerevar:
Originally posted by ....:

Do you even know what you are talking about yourself since you never actually mention what you are even talking about ...

Its amazing how not only you fail to realize that you never really explained what you even said - you constantly talk about systems whithout ever pointing out what you are talking about and its even more amazing that you seem to be completely unable to understand the difference between personal prefrence and objective issues/problems.

But sadly i see this a lot these days - people seem to be unable to realize that people can have different opinions without beeing wrong and that a personal opinion in 99% of the cases isnt the objecdtive truth for everyone ...

Let me guess - from your point of view the experiment is badly designed and not logical?:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47DmUM7MW7s

sigh. there is no OBJECTIVE TRUTH for EVERYONE by default. but any experienced gamer can tell what is good design and tought out in detail and what is slapped on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. thats a matter of experience as a player.

you seem to lack that experience clearly. otherwise you would have instantly been able to tell that i talk about the crafting system beeing invalidated by the loot rng bs. there is no reason to craft anything ever aside building blocks. thus the entire npc and crafting stations stuff is pointless to even be in the game currently. and the reason for this is that rng loot provides everything but BETTER and faster.

an actual good system would have been designed around combineg both systems. and that means not dropping finished items anywhere but makeing enemies bosses and chests have a chance to drop rare crafting materials for example.

that reduces the rng to a more human level and makes the player engage and use both systems together. that is all around a better and more refined and detailed system than "roll 500 times to get what you want" the later is a slot machine and doesnt belong in a game thats supposed to be a "craft/build/survive" setting as its not designed for such a game at its core concept. such systems belong in looter shooters or hack and slash games.

and this is not related to resetting chests to begin with as the world resets by default whenever you take a break from the game. which btw isnt an industry standard for these games at all but its a required downside of fixed worldmaps sadly.

I have more games on steam and more years of service than you - so i guess according to your logic you now have to agree to me?

What you explained still is just your personal preference and hardly a better system. Its just a different system. Also as i explained if you were such an 1337 Gamer you would realize that game design is different for SP/Coop games and MMOs.

Its just amazing how you are so convinced of yourself and your opinion that you think its not an opinion but a fact when in reality it isnt ...

Even the other stuff doesnt say "im expirienced" to me - for example your point about world resets and fixed worldmaps - actually these 2 things have nothing to do with each other. The main reasons why the world isnt fixed are probably:
1) performance
2) savegame size
3) MP data transfer ammount
4) potential bugs due to the complexity of how much you can change the landscape etc.
5) MP ressource problems


Last but not least thats interresting:

"the later is a slot machine and doesnt belong in a game thats supposed to be a "craft/build/survive" setting as its not designed for such a game at its core concept"

Who said that and why is this a "fact"?


But since as stated above i have more years of expirience i hereby proclaim:
""craft/build/survive" the only logical system is a rng loot like in Diablo - everything else is wrong game design"
Last edited by ....; Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:30am
glacierpf Apr 3, 2024 @ 8:58am 
Let´s make a button in the settings : "Turn Gold-chests off + no respawn of bosses" and your personel loot problem is fixed. But as many ppl say befor: "U can do this by urself"... no need of button to turn it off. JUST DONT FARM THE CHESTS and KILL EVERY BOSS ONE TIME. Problem solved...
Nerevar Apr 3, 2024 @ 9:24am 
Originally posted by ....:
Originally posted by Nerevar:

sigh. there is no OBJECTIVE TRUTH for EVERYONE by default. but any experienced gamer can tell what is good design and tought out in detail and what is slapped on ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. thats a matter of experience as a player.

you seem to lack that experience clearly. otherwise you would have instantly been able to tell that i talk about the crafting system beeing invalidated by the loot rng bs. there is no reason to craft anything ever aside building blocks. thus the entire npc and crafting stations stuff is pointless to even be in the game currently. and the reason for this is that rng loot provides everything but BETTER and faster.

an actual good system would have been designed around combineg both systems. and that means not dropping finished items anywhere but makeing enemies bosses and chests have a chance to drop rare crafting materials for example.

that reduces the rng to a more human level and makes the player engage and use both systems together. that is all around a better and more refined and detailed system than "roll 500 times to get what you want" the later is a slot machine and doesnt belong in a game thats supposed to be a "craft/build/survive" setting as its not designed for such a game at its core concept. such systems belong in looter shooters or hack and slash games.

and this is not related to resetting chests to begin with as the world resets by default whenever you take a break from the game. which btw isnt an industry standard for these games at all but its a required downside of fixed worldmaps sadly.

I have more games on steam and more years of service than you - so i guess according to your logic you now have to agree to me?

What you explained still is just your personal preference and hardly a better system. Its just a different system. Also as i explained if you were such an 1337 Gamer you would realize that game design is different for SP/Coop games and MMOs.

Its just amazing how you are so convinced of yourself and your opinion that you think its not an opinion but a fact when in reality it isnt ...

Even the other stuff doesnt say "im expirienced" to me - for example your point about world resets and fixed worldmaps - actually these 2 things have nothing to do with each other. The main reasons why the world isnt fixed are probably:
1) performance
2) savegame size
3) MP data transfer ammount
4) potential bugs due to the complexity of how much you can change the landscape etc.
5) MP ressource problems


Last but not least thats interresting:

"the later is a slot machine and doesnt belong in a game thats supposed to be a "craft/build/survive" setting as its not designed for such a game at its core concept"

Who said that and why is this a "fact"?


But since as stated above i have more years of expirience i hereby proclaim:
""craft/build/survive" the only logical system is a rng loot like in Diablo - everything else is wrong game design"

ah. not getting the point. and thinking the AMOUNT of games makes you experienced in seeing and realizeing logical gameplay systems and how they interact with each other. the amount of games you own is irrelevant. and even trying to use steam as a metric for your experience is hilarious quite frankly. as it means nothing on that front and your posts tell me you arent experienced at all.

what i explained is a better system for a game of this gerne type. this is proven by countless other games of similar type not useing this rng system. for a reason. or if they use it they used it in conjunction to work with its crafting system and not by invalidating it entirely. you dont put 2 opposing systems into the same game.

that is bad gameplay design in a nutshell basically. as majority of players will always stick to the system that provides them the better results. thats just a gamer mindset thing no dev can change. you are trying to blame gamers for thinking like gamers in this thread. which is quite frankly totally stupid behavoir and tells me alot about you. hence my first response.

games are set to different tags and genres for a reason. as certain features are to be expected to be the case in such games and not for others. but thats gameplay basics and i am not going to bother to tell you about them in detail as the systems speak for themself already. it has something to do with logical pattern recognition.

telling people especially gamers to "JUST DONT IT LOL" like its some sort of solution is plain stupidity and trying to excuse the system at hand. trying to blame gameplay system design failures on the players is only done by 1 type of player like i said. it seems you are that type. thus it isnt possible to make you understand clearly.

you reacted precisely like i expected you to do from the start.
Gargoyle Girl Apr 3, 2024 @ 9:42am 
I just started doing it because I reached a Root, down in the Shroud in the Kindlewastes, that is insanely hard to clear because the Shroud itself is so thick you can barely see anything, and a Sicklescythe is down there, spamming ranged attacks at me. It killed me over and over, and I had no way to retaliate, so was forced to give up.

My gear at the time was lvl 21-25, and the place I'm farming gives lvl 25. I'm really just after the armor sets to maybe allow me to survive long enough to beat the guy, and it's super tedious. Been at it for *three days*, a few hours each night, and still haven't completed all the sets. And since I'm stubborn, I won't stop til I do.

I didn't want to do this, but since my level and my gear level is below that of my enemies, I can barely see them to fight them, I can't use dodge or blink because of homing attacks, and there's red shroud all around the spot they appear, making one wrong move instant death? Yeah... not much choice in the matter.

As for whether or not people *should* be able to do it? ...that depends on the person. The level of determination you need to work your way across several tough biomes to the spot I'm in now whiler wearing base level gear and being unleveled is impressive, so if that works for you, and you are *that* determined to struggle through it all just to be overpowered for the rest of your game, then I guess you should be rewarded for the effort. And since the devs left such a thing in place, they probably are aware of it and don't really mind if players are doing it.

Again, I wouldn't be doing it if I didn't have to, but that one area is too rough for me to just try to power through it, so I need to find some kind of edge. Everything else up to that point felt doable, but the fact that I can't see or block the attacks coming at me, and it's so far down in the Shroud so I'm also on a timer AND in a bad spot to be trying to jump and dodge around makes it too insane for me with what I'm able to craft and use.
Mr.Torgue May 24 @ 12:39am 
I agree, this should be removed from the game.
Lorska May 24 @ 1:58am 
So is the farming the issue or the access?

I suggest this then:

Each chest draws from a pool of the area's level items. That pool depletes over time so eventually by opening each of the existing chests of that level you will see every item with the item being randomly bound to the chest upon world generation.
That would mean farming the same chest would only give you the same item every time, making it pointless. Instead you'd have to find as many different chests as possible.
Consumable chest should still be completely random of course.
Last edited by Lorska; May 24 @ 1:59am
.... May 24 @ 3:30am 
Originally posted by Lorska:
So is the farming the issue or the access?

I suggest this then:

Each chest draws from a pool of the area's level items. That pool depletes over time so eventually by opening each of the existing chests of that level you will see every item with the item being randomly bound to the chest upon world generation.
That would mean farming the same chest would only give you the same item every time, making it pointless. Instead you'd have to find as many different chests as possible.
Consumable chest should still be completely random of course.

Neither.

The problem is people with no self-control.

With the same logic one could argue that they have to ban all ressources servers etc. because you can just join them and get ressources.

You can ruin any game for yourself if you use cheese-mechanics, cheats etc. which every mainly SP game has.
Originally posted by ....:
The problem is people with no self-control.

This. No one forces you to open a chest twice or use exploits in a game. Just don't do by yourself ... and let others play the game they want it to play.
Lorska May 24 @ 4:57am 
Originally posted by ....:
Neither.

The problem is people with no self-control.

With the same logic one could argue that they have to ban all ressources servers etc. because you can just join them and get ressources.

You can ruin any game for yourself if you use cheese-mechanics, cheats etc. which every mainly SP game has.
I agree on the self-control thing, though I figure this would probably be the least intrusive change that could be made to prevent the issue.
People that only loot chests once will actually see more loot diversity because it is enforced by the diminishing pool.
People cannot farm the same chest anymore for different drops.
The only cost coming from this is that all chests (that don't contain unique drops or consumables) would have to save the loot they contain upon opening.
(the other option would be setting all chest loot upon world generation based on a random seed)
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