New Content - Level

[....]

I like the progress of the game and new content but from my point of view the game has a big problem:

- Content is outleveled way too fast - before you can even do most of it
- outleveld Content is boring because its neither a challenge nor does it give you any rewards

So the new area beeing a low level area to me seems like a pretty weird decision.

I really hope they will adapt the game:
- either make leveling slower so that you can do everything before outleveling it
- add content for higher levels instead of lower

Even from a EA-Testing-Point-Of-View i dont understand why they didnt just set it to Level 25 for now.


I really like the game - but this from my point of view is one of its biggest flaws - and it also ruins a lot of great content.

[....]

I would even be okay with custom level settings or a simple way to stop player progress etc.

Its just not fun playing content where you almost one-hit everything and cant ever find anything useful.

[DeLindsay]

It's funny because at the same time there are folks like yourself that don't agree with static Levels in Zones (because it makes them trivial later on) there are other people complaining about Level scaling to keep the "challenge" omnipresent.

It's a lose-lose for Developers. And I'm not saying either side is wrong but what exactly are Studios to do when they create games then?

[SlugHead]

Originally posted by DeLindsay:

It's funny because at the same time there are folks like yourself that don't agree with static Levels in Zones (because it makes them trivial later on) there are other people complaining about Level scaling to keep the "challenge" omnipresent.

It's a lose-lose for Developers. And I'm not saying either side is wrong but what exactly are Studios to do when they create games then?

!00%. Can't please everyone.

Devs need to stick to their original vision. Early access is good for some things but all of the criticism during development often leads to devs running around like chickens with their heads cut off. It just waters down games and makes them mediocre when they try to please too many people.

One of the failings of buying an early access game: you may end up with something you don't like because it's not finished when you pay. Devs that aren't willing to deal with the backlash need to stop releasing EA games rather than putting out garbage and offending everyone.

[Firsken]

Every single game for the last 10 years were made for the kids that prefer games without even a slight challenge. They prefer to spam the games and move on to the next. Biggest proof of that, is how people complain more and more if a game isn't updated in a month.

The gratitude for a good game, has gone down the drain, and all you have now is schizophrenic kids praising developers one day and trashing them the next.

We live in an interesting time indeed.

[DeLindsay]

Originally posted by Firsken:

Every single game for the last 10 years were made for the kids that prefer games without even a slight challenge. They prefer to spam the games and move on to the next. Biggest proof of that, is how people complain more and more if a game isn't updated in a month.

The gratitude for a good game, has gone down the drain, and all you have now is schizophrenic kids praising developers one day and trashing them the next.

We live in an interesting time indeed.

From Software enters the chat.

[mithras]

The devs already designed the game for being static Levels, not unlike Valheim. There are some places you definitely cannot go. It seems that if new content is added to the game, it should definitely be for higher level characters.

This allows people that already started the game to continue playing with a new and interesting experience. New players will do what the old players did, and they will eventually be able to handle the new content after doing the older content. This provides a good experience for new and old players alike.

When all of the content has been added, balancing things can be done at that time. Old players can start over again for the full new experience. I agree with OP, this does seem an odd decision.

[Blue Hasia]

Your allowed your input but it is really hard to say, we still dont have access to so much of the map and who knows what the challenges will be in that area

[....]

Originally posted by DeLindsay:

It's funny because at the same time there are folks like yourself that don't agree with static Levels in Zones (because it makes them trivial later on) there are other people complaining about Level scaling to keep the "challenge" omnipresent.

It's a lose-lose for Developers. And I'm not saying either side is wrong but what exactly are Studios to do when they create games then?

I would be okay with mixed systems aswell. For example limited level range per area and area content/loot etc. that adjusts to player level.

For example: Area 3 = Level Range 5-8 depending on player level and also reduce XP gained a lot the further your level is over the base level of an area to stop people from overleveling without wanting to.

I also like systems with more fixed levels because the world seems more immerisve - on the other hand such a system has to be done perfectly and wont fit for everyones playstyle. So maybe some options would be nice since its really bad to have great content that is boring because its too easy and offers no loot you need.

[....]

Originally posted by Firsken:

Every single game for the last 10 years were made for the kids that prefer games without even a slight challenge. They prefer to spam the games and move on to the next. Biggest proof of that, is how people complain more and more if a game isn't updated in a month.

The gratitude for a good game, has gone down the drain, and all you have now is schizophrenic kids praising developers one day and trashing them the next.

We live in an interesting time indeed.

How am i trashing the DEVs? The game is great its just awful that lots of content - and even lots of new content is added/designed in a way that makes it boring/not use its potential?

What annoyed me most about the game was that i outleveld so many interresting areas i wanted to explore and i especially didnt understand why they would add more low level content when in the game as it is now you will be overleveld way too fast anyways.

Its not like i want the to change the games core - i just want them to think about ways to ensure that players can enjoy the content in a meaningful way (difficulty and loot)


Sometimes reading replys in steam i wonder if people argue with other people or just with a strawman ...

[....]

Originally posted by Blue Hasia:

Your allowed your input but it is really hard to say, we still dont have access to so much of the map and who knows what the challenges will be in that area

I get that and its great - and its also EA - still i think its important for the DEVs to think about player progression and content. The content is great - but it has to be tweaekd a bit to ensure that players dont miss out on great content. I neither demand level scaling (which in its pure form i disliek aswell) nor fixed levels - just a good adjustment to ensure people have meaningful progression if they follow a path. Its obviously fun when you go to a wrong area and suddenly are underleveld - but if you do the content at least somewhat in the right order you shouldnt outlevel the content.

And as i said - i like the game - which is why im writing what i think is an issue. And while finetuning is done at the end it still makes sense to try to have a general path of progression that works for most players that play normally.

I would even be okay with a - stop leveling - button so i could play content without loosing difficulty and also find meaningful loot for my current character.

[....]

Sadly they havent done much yet. The game is great - the updates look great. But they seriously have to look into this - they are destroying/wasting their own content.


Suggesetions:
- add more hints to players what areas they are s upposed to do and a general order
- slow down leveling
- dont let players use every item without drawbacks - for example - if you give a level 6 char a max level gear he pretty much is almost as strong as a max level char - besides some skills
-- this could be done with mechanics like level requirements but in an immersive way - for example if you use a level 25 item with level 5 it would make sense that you cant use it aswell so there could be a huge debuff on speed/dmg/armor and even on durability


I think this really is a big issue - this game has so much content - but lots of it is pointless because its not viable - for example crafting, upgrading most of the time, many areas are outleveled way too fast and become boring since they are neither hard nor offer any interresting loot then.
This could for example be changed with slower leveling or a mechanic to combine 2 identical weapons to create a higher level version etc. - or adding every armor/weapon up to that level as random one time use skindrop so that you can apply it to another weapon etc.
Some random spawns would also be nice - for example if you enter an area and are overleveld there is a XY chance to spawn a stronger Boss or other enemies etc.
Chests could have a low possibility to drop an item that meets the players level etc.


I think the game and the world is great - but its also important to implement all of that world into the gameplay in a viable way.

[Sgt.JESUS]

I was gonna post thinking someone necroed your thread and that with the server settings now the point was mute.

I dont like hand holding, so those hints for me smell like Assassins Creed points all over the map telling you where to go, spoils the exploration, but the devs could make it optional, like a lot of things they already did.

You can adjust leveling rate, and difficulty, the only valid point you make imo is the usage of high level itens by low level players, but that cannot be avoided and its even welcome by some players because they have finished the content already, so they have all this gear sitting in their base for new chars, not to mention everyone can get high level gear in vault servers.

The next update will have more enemies inside the shroud, and the devs have on their roadmap more dangerous nights, lets hope they add random encounters to the mix, i like the idea of elite mobs, but its thin line to turn this into diablo.

[....]

Originally posted by Sgt.JESUS:

I was gonna post thinking someone necroed your thread and that with the server settings now the point was mute.

I dont like hand holding, so those hints for me smell like Assassins Creed points all over the map telling you where to go, spoils the exploration, but the devs could make it optional, like a lot of things they already did.

You can adjust leveling rate, and difficulty, the only valid point you make imo is the usage of high level itens by low level players, but that cannot be avoided and its even welcome by some players because they have finished the content already, so they have all this gear sitting in their base for new chars, not to mention everyone can get high level gear in vault servers.

The next update will have more enemies inside the shroud, and the devs have on their roadmap more dangerous nights, lets hope they add random encounters to the mix, i like the idea of elite mobs, but its thin line to turn this into diablo.

Its not about handholding - its about trying to keep content interresting. The worst part for me plaiyng this game was doing content - that was a bit hard - until i realized that i just skipped other lower level content that was now utterly boring and pointless in areas that actually looked interresting.

I obviously dont want level-scaling because that destroys progression - but some sort of system that gives a player more hints on where to go next.
Or maybe some sort of soft-levelscaling that will scale up levels and loot areas +max 5 levels or maybe some immersive story reasons for adding harder foes in the mix even in lower level areas.

Handholding would be to make the game easier for the player. Im asking for guiding the player a little bit so a player wont do most content overleveld.

Difficulty modifiers dont change the problem of Loot and enemies in general.

[Sgt.JESUS]

Sorry i interpreted those hints you asked for as map markers like AC has, but the hints you have show up with the NPCs conversations and quests early game, you get a lot of notes around that steer you the "right" way.

The way you should go is limited by your flame, you could skip every area and go straight for the last with a lot of work, bombs and climbing, but you would die pretty fast.

So the progression is already limited by the flame level and area level, so if you stumble into those areas and see a lot of red fog and enemies 5 levels above yours you know you are in the "wrong" area.

Some people have given the idea for the weapons to be upgraded to your level no matter what level they are, so a wand level 10 could be upgraded to 20 or even 40, its a good idea, but i would rather have a more complex system.

They could be tied to crafter level, so a smithy without the last forge from the albanese summits wouldnt be able to upgrade a weapon to level 35-40, and the type of weapon should be tied to the crafter too, bows for the hunter, melee for the smith and alquimist gets the wands and staves.

The devs should ditch those coins for materials, upgrading weapons should use materials, leave the coins for respec at the flame, and you get materials breaking up gear too, so the coins could be rarer this way, dropping only from fell enemies as they do now.

This system could open up a lot more, rare materials only bosses drop to upgrade rarer gear or making unique ones at the crafters, like Elden Ring or any DS game has.

[Ellis_Cake]

Linear a to b then c, structures are very boring imo and lessens open world discovery, no matter if one finds a place harder or easier.