Convinience Skills shouldnt be in the Skilltree

[....]

I like the skilltree in general - but it feels rather annoying that it also includes things that require lots of points just for Convenience. It feels like you are missing out too much actually fun things just to mine a bit faster and have to repair your tools less often.

I cant be the only one feeling like this - it just does feel like an awful tradeoff - especially since many fun mechanics are locked with skills.

I would really prefer if gathering improvement skills would be handeled a different way - either getting better by simply doing the task or a system where you have to defeat special bosses etc.

I also dont know what i think about having to pick completely useless skills to get some skill that fits many playstyles perfectly - would be nice if there was another part that still costs points but doesnt flat out waste points.

[....]

Do people just ignore skills for faster farming etc. It just feels like i would be missing out fun mechanics if i picked them just to be a bit faster at farming.

[crzyfsh123]

With how the world is laid out. Double jump, should be at most 1 skill point. And that updraft skill for your glider.

[Fuzen]

I have a habit in games : if QoL is part of the skill tree, then I just cheat these in. Because it’s never a good design to make players choose between less tedium and their actual build.

So, I absolutely agree with you. These should be unlocked in a way that doesn’t interfere with combat abilities.

Double jump and updraft are a must and should be part of the progression just like the gliders.

Shroud timer should be tied to the base building somehow – because what the hell is the point of the whole basebuilding thing if all it provides is a longer rested timer and craft stations ?

And so on. Overall, I feel like the game is very disjointed between its different elements and that hurts the whole experience.

[hi friends]

i agree, these should be upgradable part of pickaxes and ♥♥♥♥ just like you can upgrade weapons themselves imo

[Lil Drizzle || NeckRope]

I agree. At most give us a separate skilltree for utility and give players a utility and class skillpoint for every point earned.

[Pluto]

heaven forbid you have to make a choice in a video game.

[william_es]

I don't think we need a separate utility skill tree, or extra points. There aren't that many "utility" skills.

Besides, there are a TON of shroud roots out there. This is another post from someone who's barely played the game complaining about anything that frustrates them in the slightest. I have so many skill points that I went and unlocked Vukah language in the beastmaster skill tree, JUST so I can walk into their camps without having to fight them. And I think I have 18 skill points I haven't even spent... all of that after dumping tons of points into battlemage, wizard, healer, trickster, and even some into the branch between tank and battlemage (for the orbs that drops).

Originally posted by Fuzen:

Double jump and updraft are a must and should be part of the progression just like the gliders.

Not a must for me. I don't have either of these skills, and I get around fine.

Originally posted by Fuzen:

Shroud timer should be tied to the base building somehow – because what the hell is the point of the whole basebuilding thing if all it provides is a longer rested timer and craft stations ?

You've just described what your base is in most games. Storage, crafting, and aesthetics.

The "point" of base building for most people, is to build something cool. That's it. I have 169 hours now in this game, and I long long long ago finished the actual gameplay at around the 80 hour mark. Everything past then has been basebuilding. I have a castle in the center of a hill, blacksmith's and carpenter's shops with living quarters above, a tavern for the farmer (she had a really nice one in brittlebush she had to leave when the shroud came), A funky wizards tower for the alchemist, and a bunch of other little random buildings all crowded into a mini-village.

Next is a farmhouse for the farmer, and farms near it. Then off in a remote corner I'll make a cabin for the hunter (she seems like someone who's basically a loner). For convenience, I put the hunter in the tavern across a bar counter from the farmer, with a cup in front of her. Like she's having a drink there. After that... shrug... I may start building a long winding stairway down to the bottom of the mountain. See how much I can build before it becomes a laggy mess.

[Fuzen]

Originally posted by william_es:

Not a must for me. I don't have either of these skills, and I get around fine.

Good for you. I can’t get on the roof of 4m high structures “just fine” without double jump personally. Anyway, what “just fine” means to each of us matters not when the fact is that QoL/convienience is gated behind a choice between that and combat efficiency.

Originally posted by william_es:

You've just described what your base is in most games. Storage, crafting, and aesthetics.

The "point" of base building for most people, is to build something cool. That's it.

That’s copium, you’re just justifying bad game design through fun you make yourself. Don’t get me wrong, Enshrouded’s base building is pretty decent, but you can’t just pretend that it doesn’t mix the base building and adventure/action genre.

And since it does, not having them intertwined is simply bad design on its part. There are lots of games that do that and actually make the base building aspect relevant to the exploration.

In Fallout 4 or Starfield, for instance, your base building directly enhances your ability to produce consumables and improve your weapons. Hell, Starfield isn’t even good, and it managed to figure this out.

In RimWorld, the resources your base have available directly impact your ability to travel outside of it by bringing in more rations that keep longer, medicine, better gear to survive encounters, etc.

Now compare to Enshrouded : you can just pop down the different craft stations, farm for the few items you need to craft the best armor in the game and you’re done. No need for your base ever again. Oh, maybe pop down a bed under a roof and 10 decorations so your rested buff can last an hour too.

It’s just shallow.

[SylenThunder]

Originally posted by Pluto:

heaven forbid you have to make a choice in a video game.

Originally posted by PakaNoHida:

Originally posted by ....:

Do people just ignore skills for faster farming etc. It just feels like i would be missing out fun mechanics if i picked them just to be a bit faster at farming.

You can always respec, its amazingly cheap.

Basically these. Games limit you to hard choices like this on purpose. And with this one, completely re-speccing your character skills is so stupidly cheap and easy that it isn't even funny. Going to go resource mining, re-assign some skill points and do it. Then swap back when you're done. I mean, what did you plan to do with the 5000 runes you were hanging onto anyway?

[Storm Reaver]

Double Jump and Updraft conflict in my opinion. Many times I've tried to Double Jump just for Updraft to kill me by sending me off somewhere. Usually off the side of a cliff, then hitting the cliff face which cancels your glider and you fall to your death.

[~T~D~]

Agree, move those points on different picaxes and axes. Basicly give tools the tool skill tree.

[~T~D~]

Originally posted by Storm Reaver:

Double Jump and Updraft conflict in my opinion. Many times I've tried to Double Jump just for Updraft to kill me by sending me off somewhere. Usually off the side of a cliff, then hitting the cliff face which cancels your glider and you fall to your death.

Agree, gliding and pickup and use(E) should never be same key. My pc is fast I almost pickup stuff when i'm ment to just use them with (E).

[cachmandrake]

Originally posted by Pluto:

heaven forbid you have to make a choice in a video game.

The only correct opinion.

I don't mind those skills getting removed tbh. As long as maximum achievable skill points get adjusted to fall in line.
All those gathering perks could just get baked in the tools themselves, spice up that gear progression.

[finalfantasy]

I don't see a real problem in those skills.

You are able to obtain so many skillpoints, that you can easily afford to pick those convenience skills anyway.
Once you've found your favorite legendary endgame gear, you can respec to especially this weapon and free up even more skillpoints. If your favorite endgame sword has no blunt damage, why skill those two points of the fighter, that push blunt damage?

I started a new character and didn't even pick the mining skills. Didn't even notice a valuable difference.

Respecing just for going mining sounds very anyoing. I don't want to assing all the skills over and over again.
More likely create a new character, give him endgame equipment from the start, pick the miner skills and swap characters if you need to mine. Once you have a world ongoing there should be enough equipment lying around so you can level a new character up quickliy. Took me not even an hour to make a new character from 0 to level 10.

I even wonder, why not yet anybody complained, that you can not get enough skill points to unlock all skills at once. :D Probably there was, i just missed it? ;)

[Asherogar]

Originally posted by SylenThunder:

Basically these. Games limit you to hard choices like this on purpose. And with this one, completely re-speccing your character skills is so stupidly cheap and easy that it isn't even funny. Going to go resource mining, re-assign some skill points and do it. Then swap back when you're done. I mean, what did you plan to do with the 5000 runes you were hanging onto anyway?

>"Games limit you to hard choices like this on purpose."
>"completely re-speccing your character skills is so stupidly cheap and easy that it isn't even funny. Going to go resource mining, re-assign some skill points and do it. Then swap back when you're done."

Didn't you realize that you deconstructed your own "argument"? You described the whole problem of having condititonal utility skills in a tree and then somehow still think it's a plus. The only utility that is okay in skill tree is unconditional, passive and universally useful, like current survivalist tree with it's faster running and additional food slot. And even then there's an argument on if it should be here or not, because make it too powerful and now it's a mandatory skill points tax on every character.

Then we have Double Jump and Updraft in a skill tree, not even in the center, but in specific directions. Why? Grappling Hook and Glider are not in the skill tree, despite being functionally identical.

Additional attack skill are very questionable too, because they're not specific skills, they're just advanced mobility. Skills should give you some unique moves, not unlock basic moveset. Something like hitting a ground with 2H weapon to create a rift and stun enemies hit by it. Or perform a circular slash with 1H weapon to damage and push back all enemies around you. Or as a battlemage cast a rain of blades in front of you. Or perform a flip back and a shot with bow. These are actual skills used only with specific weapons and by specific builds. Why I need to spend points to perform a jump attack?